Eriksimon Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Here's the third track I produced with my daughter Finya (12) as lead vocalist. This time an obscure song by some Canadian. 8) Yeah, him. I used/needed hardly any tuning and I ended up using one complete take. Hope you like it! [soundcloud] [/soundcloud] New and improved using spanish canadian priest pirate power! Downloadable, too. 24 bits PCM. [soundcloud] [/soundcloud] Edited January 20, 2013 by Eriksimon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Very nice! Sounds very professional! When you say you produced it...does that include your mastering it as well? If so, I assume you used Logic to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thank you! Yes, all done in Logic. From first note to bounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 What plugins or inserts did you put on your output channel for mastering? Can you post a pic? I can see a bit of the output channel in the picture you provided...but I can't make it out precisely. Thanks. The reason I ask is because I've been playing with the mastering presets within Logic for mastering my own completed projects, but, do not have any real "knowledge" as to how to go about mastering in general. Any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 What plugins or inserts did you put on your output channel for mastering? Can you post a pic? I can see a bit of the output channel in the picture you provided...but I can't make it out precisely. Thanks. The reason I ask is because I've been playing with the mastering presets within Logic for mastering my own completed projects, but, do not have any real "knowledge" as to how to go about mastering in general. Any tips? At the end of this reply are two very good (starter) guides. I have two tips: 1. forget presets. Create (and use) your own, made by using your ears and your tracks... For this track I used very little "mastering", or better: "mastering". I found that getting a tranquil track loud is best handled at the source, so I (tip 2:) drastically limited the dynamic range of the Piano in the EXS24, to just 13,5 dB.: So, generally, limiting the dynamic range of the (software)instruments, rather than (over-)using compression an/or limiting I find a satisfying approach for this sort of track. All the AdLimiter did was add 6 dB of straight gain (because I first mixed to around -6 dB and added the AdL after the mix was done) and 2 dB of Loudness, which is very modest. The plugins on the output strip are metering plugs. TRUE mastering (as done by engineers such as Lagerfeldt) is what would happen to my tracks had I any intention of earning money with it. Here's one more pic, and that's all you'll get from me on that. Here are two short but sweet guides: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/468170-loudness-when-producing-mixing-tips.html http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Awesome! Great advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I've heard many versions of this (still partial to the Buckley version) and some are too smooth, some are too brash but this one hits the sweet spot. Great pick for her voice! She really nails the "wounded" quality of this song. Nice work Erik. PS - What compressor setting did you use on her voice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thank you very much Camillo! Very glad you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncer Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 great recording Eric... enjoyed listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I'd like the vocals to be louder, and the piano arrangement distracts a bit from the vocal at times. More voice, less midi! I prefer this to the Buckley version though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 I prefer this to the Buckley version though Wow. I'm not sure whether to tell that to Finya, it may give her too much confidence... So thanks for the big compliment! Unfortunately (?) I must disagree for about 82 % with you: I think her voice is as balanced as I most like it in the mix, and perhaps there's two or three pianonotes too many in the second chorus, but that''s the full 18 %... The piano "arrangement" is made up of in fact just plain accompaniment chords with a few monophonic melodic decorations, which I have improvised after the vocal takes were done (the white track, it triggers the same piano); it added a bit of character to the music; I felt the music sounded too basic without it... Although this song does belong to that top line of "almost any accompaniment will do", as the song 'performs itself' and is very focused on the vocals and the lyrics. Maybe I'm not yet modest enough to be that invisible servant an accompanying musician ought to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Just listened to this again and on reflection, I'd have to agree with Rev on the piano.... it's like if it were not on every beat, I think it would be more of an "invisible servant" (great term, BTW!) I can certainly hear every single word of the vocal..... just wondering what it would be like with fewer piano hits. The guitar's already filling out the rhythm so maybe you could get away with that. Just a thought; I still like this a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Oh yeah, the vocal is clear enough, I would just personally like it VERY close up, with a more reverberated and distant backing. But you know, personal interpretation and all that. Looking forward to the next one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 It sounds as if most everything is balanced to the right side and the vocals are getting buried in the mix. I could suggest balancing and sending all instruments to an Aux channel. Add Logic's Ducker plug in to the Aux and go from there. Unfortunately, there is more to the Ducker than meets the ear, so you may simply want to level out the vocals (compression/limiting) and rebalance the mix. I bet she is excited to be a recording sensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 It sounds as if most everything is balanced to the right side Well, I was al ready to be mildly cross at you, but after flipping over my headphones, it turns out you're right, guitar and piano are slightly off centre... and the vocals are getting buried in the mix. Sorry, disagree. It's not buried. It could be louder (+2 dB, max), but it's not buried. I could suggest balancing and sending all instruments to an Aux channel. Add Logic's Ducker plug in to the Aux and go from there. Unfortunately, there is more to the Ducker than meets the ear, so you may simply want to level out the vocals (compression/limiting) and rebalance the mix. Yes. that ducker will not be heard by my aging ears, so I don't think that's a good idea. I just did that (rebalancing, that is). No duckers and no extra aux channels though, it's a simple song, trackwise, mixwise, so I'm not going to do fancy 'producery' heptuple parallel auxchanneling and subtle sidechain overall glueing reducking expressioncompanding nonsense; I think (as you may have picked up on) that that is overkill... I probably won't reupload, it's a hobbyist release, not a professional one (otherwise a lot more people than just me would have listened to it before "release"). I have also found that my main reverb is very right-orientated (though the meters "say" it's balanced), it's one of the Samplicity impulse responses... hmmm later edit: It was indeed the SD - the Impulse response was M-to-S so I needed to decode it with a Direction Mixer, set to MS input. . Anyway, thanks for noticing. There's a bit of an feeling (I should have noticed the (slight) lopsidedness), but otoh I'm still pleased with the overall result. It's not a "dealbreaker", so to speak. I've rebalanced the mix by panning the piano -10 and the Guitar from +8 back to 0 and adding 1,5 dB to the vocal. another later edit: I just listened to it at a very low volume on speakers, which I had not done (just on the DT-770s). I "lost" the voice on occasion, the 1,5 dB louder version turned out to be better... I am gonna put it up on SC side by side with the "old" version. One extra thing I'll now add to my workflow: listen with L/R flipped. And at whisperquiet volumes on speakers... I bet she is excited to be a recording sensation. I'm a bit unsure whether you're being mildly sarcastic or not at all... sorry... But, to answer truly: I'm unsure. She now wants to enroll for the third season of the The Voice kids, and I still have no idea whether I should let her or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Uploaded a fixed mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Don't know what "Voice kids" is but if it's an opportunity for her to learn or perform or both and she wants to do it, I'd say let let her at it! And yeah, better mix; it works with the vocal louder now. Interesting to compare them side by side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Don't know what "Voice kids" is but if it's an opportunity for her to learn or perform or both and she wants to do it, I'd say let let her at it! It's the tv-talent show "The Voice", a dutch export that is now also in USA, Canada, Israel, United Kingdom - in the Netherlands there's a version for kids (8(?) to 14(ish?) also, second season now running, enrollment for season 3 now opened. It's a show with preselection, so there's no "idiots audition" part in it. The very first audition is with full accompaniment in front of a 600 p. audience. The thing is, I am trying to be a careful parent, and not all Dutch media circles are of the kind you necessarily want your 12 year old daughter to interact with; on the other hand, speaking words of wisdom, let it be. I guess it all depends on the contract, which both her mother and me would have to sign, so... But, yeah, I'll probably let her. And yeah, better mix; it works with the vocal louder now. Interesting to compare them side by side. First the Samplicity impulse response in SpaceDesigner making my good ship list ever so slyly to starboard, followed by my low level listening really revealing that the vocal was, eh, a bit, eh, buried in the mix. It was so perfectly clear and upfront in my DT-770s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Voice seems like the least exploitative talent show on TV. The opportunities appear more genuine too. But then, I think you're right to be protective. Never trust anyone who works in television! Presumably there will be a parent or guardian with her for the vast majority of the process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Voice seems like the least exploitative talent show on TV. The opportunities appear more genuine too. But then, I think you're right to be protective. Never trust anyone who works in television! Presumably there will be a parent or guardian with her for the vast majority of the process? Assuming they admit her in the first place... yes, there'll be a small entourage, I expect: 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hehe... and all wearing bodyguard style shades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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