Getting MTC to enable record

[hartsteinsmac.com]

I currently have 2 mac running Logic and am trying to sync them via MTC.

 

I have the first set up to transmit MTC and the second seems to see it. The transport follows play and stop functions. When record is pressed on the first machine however, the second simply begins playing rather than recording.

 

Tracks are record enabled on both machines

 

If I press record on the second machine, it will go into record pause and wait for the first machine to transmit MTC and then record properly once transmission has begun. This would be an acceptable solution but when the first machine stops, the second drops out of record mode. Even if the preference for "External Stop ends Record Mode" is unchecked, record is still disabled when the first machine stops.

 

Any Ideas?

 

Thanks

[shivermetimbers]

I currently have 2 mac running Logic and am trying to sync them via MTC.

 

I have the first set up to transmit MTC and the second seems to see it. The transport follows play and stop functions. When record is pressed on the first machine however, the second simply begins playing rather than recording.

 

Tracks are record enabled on both machines

 

If I press record on the second machine, it will go into record pause and wait for the first machine to transmit MTC and then record properly once transmission has begun. This would be an acceptable solution but when the first machine stops, the second drops out of record mode. Even if the preference for "External Stop ends Record Mode" is unchecked, record is still disabled when the first machine stops.

 

Any Ideas?

 

Thanks

 

Part of me would like to have 4 or 5 Mac(s) sync'd up to function as an Electronic band utilizing the sequencing and effects in Logic. Each member has a comp for the electronc Instrument. Vocals, Guitar, Bass, Key, and Drums.

 

So would it be better and achieve the same end result to just use the ethernet node instead?

[hartsteinsmac.com]

Thanks for the idea, but I think the shared processing is more than I need.

 

I really just need machine #1 to stop and start a recrding on machine #2 and for machine #2 to read the Midi Time Code.

 

Stop and play function fine, but I can't get machine #2 to go into record.

 

thanks

 

Greg

[shivermetimbers]

How about putting the midi control commands on the Master and transmitting them 1 measure ahead of everything?

[alexstone]

How about three sets of transport controls through key commands?

 

Set up Transport one with caps lock keyboard key allocations to function with box 1.

Set up Transport two with caps lock keyboard key allocations to function with box 2.

 

Use transport three for running both instances of logic at once (control surface?)

 

As i understand from your post, you record one track a time, but want both instances of Logic to playback at the same time, not record at the same time. MTC would be good for playback, but i wonder if logic instance specific transport controls would give you unique recording control.

 

(I've experimented with key commands, and discovered how useful and almost infinitely variable they are. My screensets for example are now allocated to the numerical keys above qwerty keys on the keyboard proper. The numerical keys are allocated to note selection for use in score. Works a treat. And i think transport key commands allocated in this way would be just as easy to assign and use.)

 

I'm currently considering purchasing a second instance of logic (pro) and running that as the master with LE as a slave. So please post further with your progress.

 

Incidentally, i use two USB midi controllers plugged into the laptop. One for input, and the other, an edirol pcr-m1 as a portable control surface. They're all working with MTC, with no glitches.

 

And reading your post further, if you want the master to trigger the slave into record maybe a Meta event in a transformer will do this. I'm not up on Meta or transformers, so maybe one of the geniuses here can help.

 

Please let us know how you get on,

 

Alex.

[hartsteinsmac.com]

I can't seem to get MMC to work between computers at all. I'm not sure I understand your suggestion of setting one a measure ahead.

 

When I set the master to send MMC and the slave to receive, all control between the two is lost. The slave shows it's getting data, but no transport changes occur. Additionally, the master will no longer go into record mode directly. It requires a record toggle and play to go.

 

This is true whether the master continues transmitting MTC, Midi Clock or nothing at all.

 

Greg

[alexstone]

Greg,

 

Have you turned off autosync? (On the transport bar, click and hold the sync button, which then gives you options. I tried MMC and it proved less reliable for me, than MTC. Just a personal experience.)

 

Alex.

[hartsteinsmac.com]

I'll be honest Alex - You lost me.

 

I'm not familiar with Key commands, but how would they translate from one machine to the other?

 

Greg

[alexstone]

Erm, ok. (I'm no expert.)

 

How do you actually operate two instances? Do you click from one to the other, or use the slave as simply a 'host'? The reason i ask this is, if you're trying to record in the slave triggered entirely from the master, then a fully synced setup may be a lot more problematic than simply clicking on the slave, recording your track (in a 'mirrored' iso with corresponding settings of tempo, etc...), and then hitting a combined playback. (And because i'm no expert, i tend to simply record in one iso, and then bounce into the main iso. I do this with orchestral work, as the laptop wheezes and whines if i try to load the 'big' orchestral template, all at once.)

 

Alex.

 

p.s. As a relative dummy with Logic, i got into key commands as a suggestion from many here. It's worth doing, as it made a lot of the workflow, and unique control of different aspects of logic much simpler. (Thank you Rohan Stevenson and Jay Asher for the wealth of info about the score aspect of Logic. With new keycommands assigned, the workflow has sped up considerably, and i feel like i'm getting somewhere.)

 

Sorry i'm not more help, but i don't have the logic skills that others do.

[hartsteinsmac.com]

Alex,

 

I'm running 2 separate computers - each with an instance of Logic on it. They are connected via USB/Midi interfaces. Since they run on two separate machines, I'm not sure how key commands would go between computers.

 

I have very limited experience with Midi Machine Control, but had hoped it would be as simple as having one computer tell the other to start recording.

 

 

Greg

[alexstone]

Alex,

 

I'm running 2 separate computers - each with an instance of Logic on it. They are connected via USB/Midi interfaces. Since they run on two separate machines, I'm not sure how key commands would go between computers.

 

I have very limited experience with Midi Machine Control, but had hoped it would be as simple as having one computer tell the other to start recording.

 

 

Greg

 

Greg, Key commands are 'universal'. So when you highlight your slave, you can use the same key commands. If you're using an external transport trigger, then it will transmit to both applications, if you're connected with MTC. But, depending on your audio setup (are you using built in, or another audio interface) and whether your audio interface can record multiple tracks or inputs, it may be that using a single recordable source is the reason logic says, 'no thank you, one at a time.' I will admit here again, i'm no expert with logic.

 

I also learnt here that it's advisable to use ony ONE code or midi clock reference at once. Seems obvious now, but i learnt the hard way. So it's worth making surer you're not trying to run MMC, MTC,Midiclock, Autosync, CIA, FBI, etc., all at once.

(A simple point that I struggled for hours with, not knowing the relavence of this at the time.)

 

MTC works for me, but others, far wiser than I, may have a better option for you.

[hartsteinsmac.com]

Alex,

 

Thanks again for the tips. Since I'm not using an external transport trigger can I use key commands for both computers at once? Does it regenerate the command out a different midi port? Basically - I want to push record on the master - via mouse click or keystroke if necessary and have both computers go into record.

 

I've set up different syncing options in the master but never seen a spot specifically where I would highlight a slave. Are you refering to Logic or the Key Commands

 

I have tried all (obviously not) syncing I can find in Logic both one at a time and in various combinations.

 

1) MTC - Both instances of program will stop and start from master. When record is pressed in master, slave goes into play. Slave will jump to wherever master is in timeline when play is pressed.

 

2) Midi Clock - Both instances of program will stop and start from master. When record is pressed in master, slave goes into play. Slave will stop when master stops, but simply continue when master resumes regardless of where master is in timeline.

 

Both MTC & Midi Clock - If slave is record enabled ahead of time and either record or play in master is pressed, slave goes into record. Upon master stop, however slave goes out of record enable.

 

3) MMC - No transport changes occur, though transport window show data is being received.

 

I'll look more into Key commands tomorrow. Thanks for your help so far.

 

Greg

[Fred B]

2) Midi Clock - Both instances of program will stop and start from master. When record is pressed in master, slave goes into play. Slave will stop when master stops, but simply continue when master resumes regardless of where master is in timeline.

If you run Logic Pro on the slave, go to Preferences>MIDI>Sync and check 'Allow Song Position Pointer while playing'.

Then the SPP of the slave should follow the master, ie. MIDI Clock should behave like MTC.

 

3) MMC - No transport changes occur, though transport window show data is being received.

MMC would in theory be able to do what you want but I don't know if it's properly implemented in Logic.

For a general description see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_Machine_Control

[shivermetimbers]

Using Two machines and Two instances of Logic is giving you more tracks, right?

Instead of 255 max Audio tracks, you now have 510 Audio tracks (in addition to the other types).

 

 

Automate the record process by using the Auto drop function on one or both machines.

 

[Fred B]

Using Two machines and Two instances of Logic is giving you more tracks, right?

Instead of 255 max Audio tracks, you now have 510 Audio tracks (in addition to the other types).

Yes. And since 2 sequencers are running you can record 2x16=32 MIDI tracks at the same time.

But I'm not sure if these numbers are relevant in practice.

[Fred B]

Automate the record process by using the Auto drop function on one or both machines.

How does it work? Please elaborate.

[shivermetimbers]

Automate the record process by using the Auto drop function on one or both machines.

How does it work? Please elaborate.

 

Actually, the more I read this thread the more I am unsure of what is actually going on.

 

I don't have the set up of 2 mac's, each loaded with Logic to play around with.

 

So my questions would still be:

 

1.) How many tracks (Types and total number of each type) are being recorded?

 

If the number of tracks being recorded is less than what Logic offers, then this seems rather pointless and redundant IMO.

 

- If it is more than 255 audio tracks then it should simply be a matter of syncing and arming the slave each time. The problem as stated is that the slave drops out of Record mode when the Master is stopped.

 

Okay, so the slave drops out of record mode. It can't record anyway if the Master is stopped. There is no clock pulse to let the slave continue.

 

It's almost as if he needs to 'Rewire' Logic to Logic to get it to do what he wants.

 

I can use an External Sequencer to send a continuous clock pulse, yet start or stop Logic while it is sync'd to the sequencer. Once I stop the transport Logic goes into monitor mode.

 

Syncing the 2 Logic machines as slaves to an external Sequencer may help.

 

Without more details, I am not sure what the end result is supposed to be.

[fader8]

Some good suggestions here. Let me say that in my experience running Pro on this machine and LE on my other workstation here, that the most acurate way to sync is with MIDI clock.

 

Caveat: This is only true if the songs on both machines have the same tempo settings and resolution.

 

As Fred B. suggests, be sure that Allow SPP while Playing setting is checked.

 

Logic is capable of transmitting all kinds of MMC but it is unfortunately limited in what it can receive. This means no record commands. I wish it were different.

 

Since I use Apple Remote Desktop to control the other station, I haven't had much need to work out "remote" commands for it, but this could be interesting. I think shiver's suggestion to utilize autodrop on the slave is a good one though, and I've used this function in this context. However, as I'm using ARD, this is simple for me. Doing it remotely with MIDI . . .hmm.

 

I'll have to think about that. It would be cool.

[Fred B]

Let me say that in my experience running Pro on this machine and LE on my other workstation here, that the most acurate way to sync is with MIDI clock.

That's also my experience. MTC is useful for time-based songs (video) but not for songs based on musical beats.

MTC messages are much more complex than MIDI clock and generate more traffic on the transmission line.

[hartsteinsmac.com]

Wow guys - thanks for all the great input

 

Let me clarify what I'm trying to accomplish.

 

This isn't an case of Logic not handling enough tracks per instance of the program. The 2 computers running the program are not next to each other. One is near my workstation and the other is in a musician's rack.

 

From my position, I want to remotely control both computers - most importantly put them both into record.

 

I will try using Midi Clock and 'Allow Song Position Pointer while playing', though I'll likely still run into the problem of the slave kivking out of record mode on stop.

 

Could someone please elaborate on how the Auto drop function works?

 

Thanks for all your help

 

Greg

[fader8]

OK, great. I don't know what your MIDI setup is like, but if you have an extra small controller keyboard around, you can use note messages, say on channel 16, to perform any function available in Key Commands.

 

So, you could assign 2 notes to select next and previous track, one for rec arm track, another for toggle record, etc. Set up commands for both machines on the same keyboard and you're ready to fly. Oh, some masking tape and a marker might help!

 

Look at the Key Commands window and it's clear how to accomplish this.

 

As far as the autodrop function, I don't think I could explain it clearer than the manual does. It's straightforward enough.

 

Good luck.

[shivermetimbers]

Greg,

 

Here are two options to consider:

 

1.) http://frontierdesign.com/Products/TranzPort

This will allow you to remotely control (Wireless) one computer. I suppose if you ask the manufacture for a second receiver, your worries would be over.

 

2.) http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/articles/tiger.htm#3

This is a way to use midi over your network set up (See the midi section)

 

All I can picture about your set up is basically 2 computers, one out of arms reach (Slave), and the other (Master) is next to you.

 

Each has an Inteface device connected via USB cable. The Master interface Midi OUT go alllll the way over to the Slave interface box: Midi IN.

 

Somehow you are able to get the slave to start and stop from the master kybrd, but you cannot get it to record?

 

OR

You physically set the slave to sync and rec arm a track, Walk back to the Master and press play to activate the slave?

 

I don't understand the purpose of this and I feel like I am playing a guessing game trying to figure this out.

 

You can send Midi signals to operate your remote comp to start/stop/switch tracks/arm and record, etc. But if I recall, you mentioned you have no controller device.

 

You do not have the need for the extra processing power or the extra tracks provided by the Slave comp. I do not know why or how you are using this set up and purposely moving one computer out of your reach.

 

Your productivity would be more efficient by keeping the 2 comps together and running audio and midi cables to the Musicians rack.

 

Again, I would recommend Option 1 above as it seems to best suit your needs.

 

The Autodrop method is rather pointless in this situation. All it involves is setting the punch in and out points of the track you wish to record on. It also involves arming the track which seems to be the problem here.

[Fred B]

Basically - I want to push record on the master - via mouse click or keystroke if necessary and have both computers go into record.

Ok, let's concentrate on this aspect alone.

It definitely can *not* be done with MIDI clock, MTC or MMC.

MMC would work in theory but doesn't in Logic.

 

So you could try the following workaround:

 

1. On the slave (key commands window) assign a MIDI message to 'Record'.

2. On the master put this message on a separate MIDI track sending to the slave.

 

Now, if you push record on the master it will also start recording on the slave due to the 'Record' message.