Brendan Ross Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Can anyone explain how to trigger open hi hats in a drummer track that I have converted to midi. Here's what I have done as a test. I loaded the default drummer instrument. Then I convert that to midi. I then identify a piece of the drummer track that plays an open hi hat and I delete everything else in the midi region (ie kick, snare etc) until I'm left with only two notes both Bb1 (the default for open hats). if I play that back - one sounds closed and one sound open. If I look at the events list there is no difference between the 2. Changing the velocity makes no difference... What is telling the one to play open and the other to play closed? Can anyone explain what is happening here ? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Can you post a screenshot of those notes in the piano roll AND the event list, like in this example: and can you tell which Drum Kit you use on the Drummer track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Ross Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 I hope you can see everything necessary here? the first one sounds open and the second sounds closed... i swear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I had a quick look here but it's hard to tell how DKD knows a MIDI note is an open hat or a closed one. I don't see any information in the Event List, other than the MIDI note info. For example, in the Event List below, the first hi-hat is fully closed, the second one is fully open. Interesingly, dragging that MIDI region to a synth track makes one of the notes sound two whole tones above its actual pitch (even though both notes have the same pitch, no pitch bend events are in the region, no transposition events in global tracks...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeA Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I loaded the default drummer instrument. Then I convert that to midi. I then identify a piece of the drummer track that plays an open hi hat and I delete everything else in the midi region (ie kick, snare etc) until I'm left with only two notes both Bb1 (the default for open hats). if I play that back - one sounds closed and one sound open. If I look at the events list there is no difference between the 2. Changing the velocity makes no difference... What is telling the one to play open and the other to play closed? Articulation IDs. This is metadata, attached to a note, that selects different samples in different groups. It can be viewed in the Event list (via the Event list View menu). If this is a Drummer/DKD kit, you can change the degree of hihat openness for already-recorded notes by changing the Articulation ID here in the Event list (there are 7 levels from closed to open). If you play one of these kits yourself, moving the modwheel should generate the IDs, which will then be available for editing. Note, this is how the DKD hihats work in the GM+Modwheel mode (selected in the DKD extended parameters); in normal GM mode you should get the usual GM hihat layout (F#=closed, G#=foot, A#=open). In the extended mode, each of those keys has 7 levels of open->closed, with a different sticking technique for each key. A lot of the Drummer patterns mix them for realism, so you may still see different hihat notes, even though some notes have different Articulations. Btw, if you switch the DKD plugin to an EXS and open its Edit window > Groups, you'll see the 7 hihat groups with their Articulation ID assignments (1-7); on the main panel you'll also see Ctrl#1 (modwheel) assigned to Art.ID (in the modulation matrix) for live playing control. Cheers, Joe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi Torres Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Articulation IDs. This is metadata, attached to a note, that selects different samples in different groups. It can be viewed in the Event list (via the Event list View menu). If this is a Drummer/DKD kit, you can change the degree of hihat openness for already-recorded notes by changing the Articulation ID here in the Event list (there are 7 levels from closed to open). If you play one of these kits yourself, moving the modwheel should generate the IDs, which will then be available for editing. Note, this is how the DKD hihats work in the GM+Modwheel mode (selected in the DKD extended parameters); in normal GM mode you should get the usual GM hihat layout (F#=closed, G#=foot, A#=open). In the extended mode, each of those keys has 7 levels of open->closed, with a different sticking technique for each key. A lot of the Drummer patterns mix them for realism, so you may still see different hihat notes, even though some notes have different Articulations. Btw, if you switch the DKD plugin to an EXS and open its Edit window > Groups, you'll see the 7 hihat groups with their Articulation ID assignments (1-7); on the main panel you'll also see Ctrl#1 (modwheel) assigned to Art.ID (in the modulation matrix) for live playing control. Cool! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Ross Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 This is a new concept to me. Many thanks, I will explore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nola111 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Nicely done, Joe. I've been wondering this myself. Nice find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yup Joe, thank you for all that information. I didn't think of viewing Articulations IDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeA Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 There was a lengthy thread on Articulation IDs on another forum (I forget which one) a while back.. Someone there noticed that there was little or nothing in the downloadable PDF manual, but there were some mentions in the online manual (at least, that was the case a month ago, the PDF might have been updated by now, for all I know).. If you go to https://help.apple.com/logicpro and search Articulation ID, several pages come up.. I guess eventually they'll document this a bit more thoroughly, along with other EXS features.. Apparently, the IDs can be viewed/edited in other editors, but in practice I found this to be a bit flaky—perhaps it's a work in progress.. Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforceguitar Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Thanks to Joe A, & to Jordi Torres for showing me this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus95 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 what should i do if int the event list the articulation id doesnt appear?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Select View > Articulation ID in the event list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevephen Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 But when I export the midi of a perfectly working Hi Hat track with different degrees of openness, all I get back is the max open on all notes. Can't send that to the protools studio. How do I get the midi 'export' function to read all degrees of openness? Hope this is a good place to ask this question. Closest I've come so far. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 You will have to transform Articulation ID (or the Continuous Control message that you us with AID) to Foot control or the parameter that your drum instrument uses for hi-hat expression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevephen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Much appreciate your coming back to this page and offering your view of this big surprise to me. I've learned a lot from you in the past. It's really nice to be able to edit the AID numbers in the event window for the open hi hat. Works great. Thank you! Only thing is that it makes no sense to midi as it writes an open high hat full open message completely destroying the midi track. I can't use it in a distant studio that uses pro tools with Steve Slate sampler if the midi track doesn't have the right info. You said to convert to foot controller which makes sense. Is that a process you can share here? I stared at the event list and foot controller window in the piano roll. I'm pretty sure the manual has nothing on this. Do so appreciate being able to ask here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoustache Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm sorry to drag this down to a 5th grade level, but could someone help explain this to me? I'm not getting any playback from my hi-hat when I select V-drums in my input mapping and I don't really understand the GM + Modwheel controls option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUncannyValley Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 ...could someone help explain this to me? ... I don't really understand the GM + Modwheel controls option. You'll be better off in the long run to just set that issue aside for awhile, watch this tutorial all the way through, then re-approach. Rinse and repeat as necessary. The tutorial literally covers everything anyone will ever need to know about MIDI (except writing code, but there's other tutorials for that). I can assure you it will be worth your time. https://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/midi101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Just tried looking at that recommended MIDI tutorial video and... let's just say there are few things worse than someone trying to be funny who isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratboy Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 To control hi hat articulation with a midi controller expression wheel/joystick/whatever, open the drum kit designer, clieck the bottom-left arrow, go to input mapping and select GM + modwheel controls hihat. Done. (Currently using Logic 10.4.4) To sum up all the ways: - While playing (midi controller): drum kit designer > input mapping > GM + modwheel controls hihat - After playing/writing: a. Events panel > view > articulation ID > change values in table b. Piano Roll > right click on the event/note > articulation > select Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Edited January 12, 2020 by rocknrollchef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Stratboy - LOVING YOU RIGHT NOW, I will give this a shot - especially hopeful for getting more options on hat (foot, open, closed, half-closed etc. to make things sound more natural). Thanks so much for this & happy new year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Stratboy - I THINK I got through the first two parts of this okay (thank you), but for the "Piano Roll" part, it only offers me "Articulation ID" when I right click on the midi note, and two options are "1 or 2". What am I doing wrong here? Not selecting the proper button from step #2? Baffled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratboy Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Honestrly I don't know. I get the 7 values when right clicking a note. Keep in mind you have to be on a dkd track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Yes I am using "Drum Kit Designer" (Producer Kit) with multiple tracks, everything is recording in MIDI. I wonder if it's some setting in the MIDI preferences? The Articulation ID functions (from Event list, and Piano Roll) don't seem to be allowing any options for assigning keys etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratboy Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Sorry I currently don't have any particular setting. I'm quite a newbe, in fact. Are you sure you're on a hi hat sample? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 yes it's a hi hat sample - I hit "record" in the overhead track in the DKD (the only one with that option), and the select the hat channel, then hit R for record - it pastes in the midi parts into the hat track doing things that way, no problem. Very frustrating getting this far, and I'm guessing I'm only 1 - 2 steps away from getting this dialed in - but cannot find any info online on this anywhere (yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummer Hoff Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I'm recording V-Drums into Logic. I have my Input Map set to V-Drums. I'm having this same open hihat articulation issue. I can "play" all the articulations but when it comes to any editing if I move or alter an open hihat sound in any way it destroys it and becomes a closed hat sound. When I open my Event List, articulation for all notes simply shows "-". When I Right-click the note in Piano Roll and choose Articulation I get the same "-". Is there a simple setting I need to adjust somewhere? Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollchef Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 I wish I were better with this stuff but I'm just not that skilled with this area (yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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