RMS Levels, whats going on here see pic

[Dumb-Ask]

Hi, I'm looking at this audio file with with two Inspector plug-ins, one on the actual channel and the other on the output buss channel(both plug-ins are on the inserts). The peak meters in Logic do not show any difference in level (both 3db)but the inspector plug in shows an increase of 3db on the output compare to the actual channel.Am I doing something wrong here, this is really confusing me and I'm not sure if I'm mixing to the right levels now?

 

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/13814/2004677216949236302_rs.jpg

 

Here are some related level question I'm confused about.

 

1)I've read that the RMS level of dialog on a DVD should be at around -20dbf (0db)for normal conversation levels when using the K-20 system, what sort of peak levels are usually excepted for a -20dbf RMS dialog.

 

2)How loud would you have your dialog in the loudest shouting scene,-10dbf RMS or just another 6db over -20dbf ?

 

3)Does the RMS meter change its level when analyzing in mono vs stereo?

 

4)When calibrating a studio level with a white noise, do you use an RMS or peak meter to show -20dbf and what sort of meter system do you use to find this level, K-20 @ 0db RMS ?

 

 

 

5)What is the recommended response time for a peak meter for audio post production?

 

 

Cheers,

Edited May 13, 2007 by Dumb-Ask

[Tarekith]

What pan law do you have set in Logic? Try using "-3dB Compensated".

[Dumb-Ask]

Thank you so much that did the trick

 

Would you say -3db is a more comfortable way to work with post then 0db ?

[Tarekith]

It's more of a standard than anything else.

[Dumb-Ask]

cheers, would this apply to surround sound also when you rout the channel directly to the output bypassing the surround panner ?

[fader8]

1)I've read that the RMS level of dialog on a DVD should be at around -20dbf (0db)for normal conversation levels when using the K-20 system, what sort of peak levels are usually excepted for a -20dbf RMS dialog.

 

For DVD video, I use K-14 and allow dialog/narration to peak around +6. If you use K20, that's +12. Sometimes I go hotter, depends on the particular voice.

 

Are you mixing stems for an author, or final assembled mix? Is the DVD multi-language?

 

2)How loud would you have your dialog in the loudest shouting scene,-10dbf RMS or just another 6db over -20dbf ?

 

As above. The rules are a bit loose when it comes to DVD because a lot depends on its purpose. Is this for broadcast?

 

3)Does the RMS meter change its level when analyzing in mono vs stereo?

 

Sure. You can see that for yourself.

 

4)When calibrating a studio level with a white noise, do you use an RMS or peak meter to show -20dbf and what sort of meter system do you use to find this level, K-20 @ 0db RMS ?

 

Not clear what you're asking. Are you referring to acoustic calibration?

 

5)What is the recommended response time for a peak meter for audio post production?

 

For peak? Instantaneous.

 

Much of your questions really depend on what you're doing this for. Presentation? Commercial distribution? Is it surround? Are you providing a stereo track too? Are you authoring the DVD?

[Dumb-Ask]

Thanks for the quick reply

 

Regarding your answers,

 

1)It will be a or final assembled mix. would you have most of the dialog at 0db RMS using the k-14?

 

2)No ,I would like to learn how to create the type of DVD film mix you take out from blockbusters to watch with the girlfriend at home.

 

4)yes, i'm talking about acoustic calibration.to simplify the question ,what I'm asking is do i bring the level of the noise signal up to -20dbf RMS or -20dbf peak in my DAW ?I assume its RMS but just wanted to be sure.

 

5)Oops I meant RMS I will not be authoring the DVD but I will mix to 5.1

 

Cheers

 

Edu

[fader8]

1)It will be a or final assembled mix. would you have most of the dialog at 0db RMS using the k-14?

 

Yes, or thereabouts.

 

2)No ,I would like to learn how to create the type of DVD film mix you take out from blockbusters to watch with the girlfriend at home.

 

Ahhh . . . the plot thickens. You want to do this to impress the girls! OK, I guess that's a good cause.

 

As I presently don't have a girlfriend, that may explain my absence at Blockbuster Video!

 

4)yes, i'm talking about acoustic calibration.to simplify the question ,what I'm asking is do i bring the level of the noise signal up to -20dbf RMS or -20dbf peak in my DAW ?I assume its RMS but just wanted to be sure.

 

Sure. Use RMS. Remember that the usual recommendations for setting up surround calibration are fairly crude. The typical instruction of setting up the LFE with pink noise at +4 relative to the mains using a C-weighted SLM is a very rough, but workable approximation at calibration. (If you're really, REALLY interested in the hardcore geek stuff, I can refer you to a long PSW forum conversation I had with Bob Katz on this subject. It might put you to sleep though. You should read Bob's book BTW.)

 

5)I meant RMS I will not be authoring the DVD but I will mix to 5.1

 

Ah. Authored no doubt by a studly co-conspirator, eh? (he-he).

[Dumb-Ask]

cool thank you so much this really helps

 

Would you say that most films on DVD are mixed with k-20 ?

sorry fo the confusion sometimes English can be very difficult for me

[Tarekith]

Katz's K-System is still pretty new, only a few plug ins and hardware support it yet, so I wouldn't say it's a standard at all for DVD yet.