Bank/Patch Dialog panel question....[SOLVED]

I have a sound module (Yamaha VL70-m) connected to my iMac and have succeeded in entering all the names of the VL's Bank1 of (third party, not Yamaha) 128 Patches in Logic 9's panel which opens when you double click the name in a track header - The track being an External MIDI instrument.

So, Logic's Inspector under 'GM Device_VL70 1' (why the '1'?) > 'Program' is correctly displaying the Patch names of Bank1 under Bank Message 'Control 0'. (I don't know what a 'Bank Message' is). Selection works as it should two-way Logic >< VL70-m.

All the Patch names were entered individually by hand as Logic starts at 0 and the VL patches at 001 and I want to match the two.

However, I am having real problems trying to setup Bank2 and its Patch names because even when I try different 'Bank Message' options, as soon as I select a name (Prg 56=81 for example) Logic selects the Bank1 patch instrument (matching it on the VL70's own display).

I have tried so many of the options without success and it even selects the VL's Custom Bank!

I expect that as usual the solution is simple but I have already spent many hours, including searching the internet, without success. Can anyone help, please?

Hey Red,

Check these threads:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29632

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=57922

And page 2 of this thread:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=48145

Maybe I can help you out with it later today if you're still stuck.

Hey fader!

Thanks for coming to my help

Gosh, that guy in your first linked thread of 2008 certainly wasn't encouraging folks to help him! But all kudos to you guys here for staying calm and trying to help anyway. Logic is often somewhat illogical, unless Logic is a lady! [not meant as a sexist remark but just a personal observation based on experience of those lovely human ladies]. Best to accept how Logic's brain works and think positive and go with it rather than against it.

So far I have very briefly read all your linked threads but a musician friend dropped by earlier who, although very very new to Logic (version 8 ), is very knowledgable on how computers 'think' and he has many sound modules (and keyboards!). He immediately spotted that the VL70's Bank 1 = Logic's Bank 0, just as I had discovered that the VL70's Patch 001 = Logic's Patch 0, all as displayed in the Inspector > Program.

Perhaps if I followed your solution of Environment > Options, would I get around that so that Logic's Inspector display matched the VL70's hardware display? In other words, VL70 Bank 1 = Logic Bank 1, etc.

Meanwhile, I'm quite happy to type every single patch name into the patch dialog window because I can become more familiar with what's there by doing so. I can also slightly modify some of the weird abbreviations so the instrument is more easily recognised in Logic's track header.

When complete and tested as working as designed, I'll 'Save as Template'. When using the VL70-m sound module I'd hate to have to type 256 patch names in every song!!

Or do you think that the Environment > Options solution is far superior?

Hey fader!

 

Thanks for coming to my help

I had thought twice about it since you had previously sworn off on any willingness to learn anything about MIDI!

Gosh, that guy in your first linked thread of 2008 certainly wasn't encouraging folks to help him!

We get that every once in a while.

Best to accept how Logic's brain works and think positive and go with it rather than against it.

In the end, that's your only choice really.

So far I have very briefly read all your linked threads but a musician friend dropped by earlier who, although very very new to Logic (version 8 ), is very knowledgable on how computers 'think' and he has many sound modules (and keyboards!). He immediately spotted that the VL70's Bank 1 = Logic's Bank 0, just as I had discovered that the VL70's Patch 001 = Logic's Patch 0, all as displayed in the Inspector > Program.

 

Perhaps if I followed your solution of Environment > Options, would I get around that so that Logic's Inspector display matched the VL70's hardware display? In other words, VL70 Bank 1 = Logic Bank 1, etc.

It's just a matter of offsetting everything by 1. Don't sweat the numbering too much. Once everything's config'd, you'll be selecting banks and patches by name anyway.

As for "Environment > Options", can I assume you're talking about configuring bank messages? If so, you'll need to check the manual for the module and see what kind of bank message it needs. You'll need to read the "MIDI" section. Don't be scared. Then you'll need to configure Logic to match.

Meanwhile, I'm quite happy to type every single patch name into the patch dialog window because I can become more familiar with what's there by doing so. I can also slightly modify some of the weird abbreviations so the instrument is more easily recognised in Logic's track header.

Great! Come on over and type in these 864 Kurzweil patches for me!

Hey fader!

Thanks for coming to my help

 

I had thought twice about it since you had previously sworn off on any willingness to learn anything about MIDI!

....I was only expressing an unwillingness to sit down and learn loads of CC number programming - I simply prefer to record music. I'm happy to learn what crops up on a 'needs=must' basis, such as doing this Bank/Patch listing.

It's just a matter of offsetting everything by 1. Don't sweat the numbering too much. Once everything's config'd, you'll be selecting banks and patches by name anyway.

....That's right. Typing patch names so I recognise what's what and then simply choosing which instrument sound to play by name but at least understanding how to navigate the banks and patches.

As for "Environment > Options", can I assume you're talking about configuring bank messages? If so, you'll need to check the manual for the module and see what kind of bank message it needs. You'll need to read the "MIDI" section. Don't be scared. Then you'll need to configure Logic to match.

....I still haven't read the Environment > Options configuring bank messages bit in one of your links yet - Probably as I found another way as described in my posts.

We read in the Yamaha sound module VL70-m's User Guide that "Preset 1 = LSB 0" etc. The Yamaha text is actually well written, although there's a huge amount of cross referencing to other pages and it can feel a bit like going around in circles. Still, for me it's all a learning curve and this forum is always helpful.

So, I have now successfully added all my VL70-m's Patch names in their Banks. The key to the solution was to recognise that Logic's Program numbering in the Inspector doesn't match the VL70-m's EPROM chip's listings - According to Logic, VL70 Bank 1 (Preset 1) = Logic Bank 0, and VL Bank 2 (Preset 2) = Logic Bank 1, etc. Also, VL Patch 001 = Logic Patch 0, on each Bank etc. All a recipe for confusion and hardly, dare I say, logical!

So I double-clicked the External MIDI Instrument Track's name to open the dialog panel, and with the Track armed and my VL70-m connected and running, I matched Patch numbers and names. To make this process easier, while pressing 'ctrl' I used my Magic TrackPad to two-finger drag upwards to enlarge the dialog panel (dragging two fingers downwards reduces the viewable size back to normal).

While doing this process I took the opportunity to audition each sound to double check and also familiarise myself better with the patch sounds. Out of 256 patches I feel inspired by at least 70 of them - Quite a high percentage.

As in fader8's links posted earlier in this thread, there are other methods of achieving this but most rely on having a complete text file as far as I can tell without reading those links properly. My patches list is not Yamaha but customised for EWI (Electric Wind Instrument), hence my particular method.

I find that the easiest way to choose which patch is to open the dialog panel and see them all in columns rather than hold open one tall list via the Inspector, but both routes work. It's very satisfying to see the VL70-m itself change patch as I change it in Logic and as my VL (aka "Valerie"?) uses my Novation MIDI keyboard controller as a MIDI interface, I can play the sounds on my keys and drum pads as well as my EWI.

For anyone reading this thread who also has a VL70-m, I've designed a free icon sized and formatted ready to load into Logic 9 as a Track icon - Extremely useful in instantly recognising a track rather than reading Logic's tiny text.

Drag-n-Drop to your Mac:

^^^^

Thanks for the compliment, Ashley - It's good to be encouraged.

Also, welcome to the forum and I hope you'll find it very helpful.