How to tame Logics erratic bar structure?

[Fusion]

I'm using logic score a great deal lately to import a MIDI file of a piece of music and then print the score which I will then used to practice and learn the piece.

 

The problem is Logic Pro's completely erratic way of displaying the score, one minute I have 4 bars per line the next page it jumps to 1 bar per line and then 7 bar bars for no logical reason at all.. and the bar lines are scattered sporadically all over the place.

 

My whole music on life I'm used to seeing bar lines in printed music neatly laid out with the pleasant symmetry of 2, 4 or 8 bars per line facilitating the easy digestion and memorisation of sections of music.. when the bar lines position, bar numbers and alignment is completely scrambled this methodology goes right down the toilet.

 

Is there a simple method without going into deep scripting or coding to force Logic to simply give me a tidy symmetrical number of bars per line?

 

This is what I am used to..

 

 

This is the madness Logic offers me.

 

[Antaren]

Have you tried this:

In the score editor, on the top left above the visual staves, look for "Layout." Using the drop down menu look for: -> Global Format -> Maximum bars/Lines --- set it to whatever number you like. You can always adjust if necessasry using the Layout Tool.

[Fusion]

Have you tried this:

In the score editor, on the top left above the visual staves, look for "Layout." Using the drop down menu look for: -> Global Format -> Maximum bars/Lines --- set it to whatever number you like. You can always adjust if necessasry using the Layout Tool.

 

Thanks..I just tried that now. Made no difference at all. Nothing changed.

[Antaren]

Fusion, did you change the number under the "Score" column? There's a score column and a part column. I just tried this technique to make sure, and as soon as I change a number, let's say to 1, I see 1 measure, 2, 2 measures, 3 three measures, etc. Perhaps someone else will join in with additional information.

[Fusion]

Ok so that does not work for already scored pieces for some reason. But If I create a new project from scratch, record a few bars myself I can then set the max number of bars. I chose 4.. but it gives me 3.

 

 

How do you set the minimum number of bars to say 4 so the whole score and what ever is recorded next is forced into 4 bars per line?

[Fusion]

I see this same problem was discussed here 7 years ago..

 

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=65053

 

But I can not make a single bit of sense out of any of the responses..

[Antaren]

Ok so that does not work for already scored pieces for some reason. But If I create a new project from scratch, record a few bars myself I can then set the max number of bars. I chose 4.. but it gives me 3.

 

How do you set the minimum number of bars to say 4 so the whole score and what ever is recorded next is forced into 4 bars per line?

 

In the instance above, it looks like you are working on a single part not the whole score. Try changing the value in the "part" column.

 

Also, uncheck "justify last staff" in the same global window that you've been working in for measures,.

[volovicg]

would you kindly upload the midi file you are importing for me to load/test... please

(then I will do a video and attempt to show you the solution).

 

and my response officially ends above.... but felt compelled to elaborate a bit in the hopes of keeping you from getting discouraged.

 

There is nothing erratic once you understand how it all works ( and yes that understanding takes a bit). An analogy I will give you is to say "I just want to get in the car and go", but I push the pedal and the car stops, press the other pedal and the motor spins but does not move...

it isn't until you understand, there is a brake, a gas pedal, a gear shift, maybe a clutch and that your parking brake needs to be off - that you start to understand the interdependencies of how to make the car go forward. But once you do - you can go anywhere...

 

In the Score editor - there are display levels, score sets, global settings, automatic settings etc and their understanding as well as dependencies need to be understood in order to be effective... So to answer one of your questions demonstrating the convolution of the answer ( and I am sorry for that.. for now ).

 

Yes you can set the minimum number of bars per staff. You do this in the global layout - it actually allows you to do at the score or part level independently ( which is nice) - that independence and which column is used is a function of how you created the score set, did you create a score set for the Part, or the instrument ( BTW - do you know the difference - possibly more to learn then). So if you create a score set for the instrument - then that min number bars - will dictate the smallest number of bars per staff... oh if you didn't to change that using any of the manual layout functions which over-ride the automatic ones and so long as the scale view is not larger than that which is needed to accommodate the min spacing you have defined in the constant spacing or proportional spacing parameters you have defined....

 

You sort of get my drift now that - effective simple answers to complex questions can only exist if there is incremental understanding of the basics on upwards. - So why did I waste all this time writing the above - for you just to say - "well then its useless for me" - Because I was where you are at one time, and persistence pays off. So be patient, ask basic questions to build to your knowledge - and remember its hard to answer questions like how do I build a computer without first understanding what the keyboard and CPU are for....

reminder: zip and upload the midi file please

[Fusion]

This is madness... I set the maximum number of bars to 4 and Logic still gives me 6.

 

[Fusion]

would you kindly upload the midi file you are importing for me to load/test... please

(then I will do a video and attempt to show you the solution).

 

and my response officially ends above.... but felt compelled to elaborate a bit in the hopes of keeping you from getting discouraged.

 

There is nothing erratic once you understand how it all works ( and yes that understanding takes a bit). An analogy I will give you is to say "I just want to get in the car and go", but I push the pedal and the car stops, press the other pedal and the motor spins but does not move...

it isn't until you understand, there is a brake, a gas pedal, a gear shift, maybe a clutch and that your parking brake needs to be off - that you start to understand the interdependencies of how to make the car go forward. But once you do - you can go anywhere...

 

In the Score editor - there are display levels, score sets, global settings, automatic settings etc and their understanding as well as dependencies need to be understood in order to be effective... So to answer one of your questions demonstrating the convolution of the answer ( and I am sorry for that.. for now ).

 

Yes you can set the minimum number of bars per staff. You do this in the global layout - it actually allows you to do at the score or part level independently ( which is nice) - that independence and which column is used is a function of how you created the score set, did you create a score set for the Part, or the instrument ( BTW - do you know the difference - possibly more to learn then). So if you create a score set for the instrument - then that min number bars - will dictate the smallest number of bars per staff... oh if you didn't to change that using any of the manual layout functions which over-ride the automatic ones and so long as the scale view is not larger than that which is needed to accommodate the min spacing you have defined in the constant spacing or proportional spacing parameters you have defined....

 

You sort of get my drift now that - effective simple answers to complex questions can only exist if there is incremental understanding of the basics on upwards. - So why did I waste all this time writing the above - for you just to say - "well then its useless for me" - Because I was where you are at one time, and persistence pays off. So be patient, ask basic questions to build to your knowledge - and remember its hard to answer questions like how do I build a computer without first understanding what the keyboard and CPU are for....

reminder: zip and upload the midi file please

 

I am already seriously discouraged, not with Logic.. just the scoring aspect... I have been teaching myself Logic and have managed to learn some pretty complex and tricky stuff with not much stress. I don't need to know how to build a computer, I have been an IT Specialist and Network Engineer for over 25 years. But in 3 months I can not force Logic into giving me a simple even and consistent number of (say 4) bars per line without having to torturously tweak on a line by line basis.

 

Even your description was insanely complex. Why can't Logic just have a simple set min & max bars option and stay that way until otherwise requested?.

 

Bach - C Major Prelude.mid zip which currently looks like this. Just the right hand.

 

 

Bach - C Major Prelude.mid.zip

Edited March 1, 2021 by Fusion

[volovicg]

In that above pic... you appear to be viewing the part, although I cannot confirm unless I see you entire screen. So try changing the min bars in the part column to 4

I will download you midi file tonight

[volovicg]

Here is your midi file imported but with a few configurational changes.

1/ with a score set

2/ scaling set correctly ie 63

3/ Max number of lines / bar 4

4/ polyphonic staff style

5/ added a few ornaments/text

 

[David Nahmani]

@Fusion, please make sure that when you attach an image or a file you follow our instructions to attach them on the board (not linked to another site): How to attach files to your post

 

I have fixed all your previous images and file to reattach them to your posts.

 

Thanks!

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Reviving an old thread here, but...

I came across this thread trying to resolve an issue and thought I would take a stab at the Bach. I decided to try and mimic as close as possible an (awful) 1898 Schirmer edition. Below is the 1898 Schirmer edition and then my mockup using Logic's Score editor. Lot's of challenges to make this work and certain Logic limitations I could not overcome. Most notable are the dots on the dotted eighths. I only did page 1 and didn't search to much in terms of the fonts. I used a font called Cochin already loaded on the Mac. 

Dave...

 

 

 

Bach - 'Prelude in C' - Schirmer 1898 Edition.pdf Bach - 'Prelude in C' - Schirmer 1898 Mockup.pdf

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Here are the scores as screenshots. First is the actual Schirmer and the second is my mockup.

 

[volovicg]

well I think you did a pretty nice job !!!!

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Hey V.  

Thanks so much for the kind words. It means a lot to me as I hold you in very high regard in terms of the Logic Pro Score discussions. In fact, your posts played a huge role in my being able to achieve what I did with this sample. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge here. I ran into a lot of roadblocks trying to replicate that Schirmer score and all of the solutions I needed came from the forum. Your posts, Doug Z, Ski and Jeff Asher had all of the answers. Thanks guys!!!

 

It is amazing how wildly under discussed the Logic Pro Score editor is in the world of notation software comparisons. May I ask what other notation software you use besides Logic's Score editor? Or do you solely use LPX Score for all of your work? 

Dave...

[DanRad]

Well done!  I suggest you photocopy it a few times for extra realism.

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Thanks Dan. Yeah, those Schirmer scores were pretty wooly looking. 

Also, apologies to Jay Asher; it's Jay not Jeff per my previous post. I should know that as I went through his book. Sorry Jay. Thanks for all of the help.

[fisherking]

i went to an erratic bar once; the strippers were fun, but the hot wings left much to be desired...

[MasonHamlinCC2]

The one main limitation I ran into with this score was placement of the dots for the dotted eighths. The setting I chose was the only one where the dots weren't buried in the flags or subsequent other noteheads. This is one area of the Logic Score editor that is pretty limited and especially since it is a global control. Do other notation softwares allow for independent dot placement per note?

I also could not get the global controls to achieve the same spacing as the Schirmer score and had I worked more to mimic their spacing I would have had to have done it all manually per measure. 

BTW, I was using the Bravura font.

[Atlas007]

Naïvely, I’d ask: have you tried the layout tool?

[Atlas007]

2 hours ago, fisherking said:

i went to an erratic bar once; the strippers were fun, but the hot wings left much to be desired...

🤣😅😂

Oh man! You’re unpayable!

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Yeah, I would have used the Layout tool for respacing the notes w/in the  measures; can't use the Layout tool for moving around dots though. I was hoping the global spacing parameters could have given me ability to space things out better as I desired but when I used the global approach I then ran into issues with the dots running into other items. Not sure I fully I understand or know how to get predictable results with the Constant Spacing and Proportional Spacing parameters.

[Atlas007]

Have you tried tinkering with note attributes?

[MasonHamlinCC2]

No way option to alter dot position in Note Attributes.

[volovicg]

Yes you can - but it is a global setting and can move the dot horizontally closer to the note or farther away... So for example if you are using the Sonata or Bravura Font - you can move the dot between the note and the flat or move it outside the flag.  You can find this in Layout->extended Layout parameters "Dot to Note" parameter at the bottom.
In the video below, watch the dot on the eighth note in the first measure, as I change the parameter  you can see the dot move back and forth.  There is no independent adjustment of the dot on a note by note basis. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by volovicg

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Yes, I am aware of that (see above). Being a global control though it is difficult to find one setting for the horizontal placement that looks good on stems up and stems down for dotted eigths that have a flag. Keeping it inside the flag for stems up was the only viable option here but is pretty tight to my eye. Going outside the flags for stems-up dotted eigths with a flag was too far away from the notehead for stems down and also would have mandated moving notes manually for just about every measure too avoid collisions between the dot and other elements. 

Do you know if in the other 'usual suspect' notation programs (Finale, Sibelius, Dorico or Musescore) it is possible to move dots independently based on either stems up/down or individually per note?

[Atlas007]

17 hours ago, MasonHamlinCC2 said:

No way option to alter dot position in Note Attributes.

I know but perhaps moving the note itself or modifying a constituent could alleviate your issue…

[MasonHamlinCC2]

Yes, going into note attributes and adjusting stem length to raise the flags for up-stem dotted eigths and giving more open space for placing the dots was something I tried but because of the length of the flags in the Bravura font I would have really had to lengthen the stems to the point of the taller stems looking awkward and also touching notes above. I might open this project up again tonight and fudge with that idea again though. I'll post another screenshot later if I do. Thanks.