Logic Pro X - What's new in 10.5

Loving the update. Question about the drum machine designer and q sampler. When i'm using the logic browser and have DMD open when i'm dragging samples in cells, when I click back on the browser to find a new sample in my many folders the DMD plugin disappears and I have to double click the DMD plugin again to drag a new sample to a new cell, any way I can keep it open while making kits?

Also with the qsampler is there a way to add a curve on the attack and release of the sample?

When you are saying "projects of 100+ MB", what exactly are we talking about here? The filesize of the .logicx file?

Yes.

did you ever try to save the good old way using separated projectfiles and folders for anything else?

No.

Thank you for the suggestion. Like I said, this problem does not happen on either 10.4.4 or 10.5 (the two versions I currently have). So everything is fine now.

Beside of the nice new features. I'm still a bit scared of installing the new update. Are there any known issues?

IT DOES NOT RUN IN FULL on a macOS prior to Mojave! Drummachine designer crashes, everything that seem to need explicit metal-graphics capabilities.

It's a real crap! So if you use older machines -thank to apple- your out of bounds. 10.4.8 will be the "latest" version, that will work for you then...

Doesn’t Apple say that before Mojave isn’t compatible?

Of course. Mojave is a minimum system requirement now.

Doesn’t Apple say that before Mojave isn’t compatible?

would be a nice attempt to google information about this... as far as i know its not explicit told...

but honestly i have to say: i did not gather information about that.

but i aspected to get it continous working on older machines. it not even can be installed if you run under high sierra...

I've had to delete a few of the latest posts in this thread... please keep all discussion gentlemanly and keep it to the facts as much as possible, and absolutely not personal attacks tolerated on this forum, thank you!

Doesn’t Apple say that before Mojave isn’t compatible?

would be a nice attempt to google information about this... as far as i know its not explicit told...

For this kind of information, don't rely on Google but instead go straight to the source.

On Apple's technical specification web page for Logic Pro X :

Minimum System Requirements

macOS 10.14.6 or later

https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/specs/

On the App Store's page for Logic Pro X:

A while ago I made the prediction that Alchemy MAY have been the new EXS everyone was waiting for...

Well thankfully Apple proved me wrong, as you all would know by now. I'm actually grateful the decided to do this, because as powerful as Alchemy can be, its really overkill for doing something simple. In fact, the inclusion of the Quick Sampler was a brilliant idea because even EXS could've been overkill for more straightforward resampling purposes.

So between all 3 instruments, Quick Sampler, Sampler & Alchemy you have alot of scalability and flexibility to meet all kinds of needs. Now if only Apple can give us a mixer that is freely organisable, independent of the Tracks view!!

Now if only Apple can give us a mixer that is freely organisable, independent of the Tracks view!!

You already have a freely organisable mixer - the Environment.

In the Environment window, you can drag channels/faders/objects to anywhere you like.

I've been using that for many years.

You can group channels of multi-output instruments together, put Auxes inbetween, next to their related channels etc etc etc.

Think of the Environment window as an "alternative" mixer - it really is very useful in that way.

Or think of the environment as a method to avoid accidentally dragging channel strips around in the mixer while doing things like adjusting levels and pan settings, etc.

I thunk they did it that way because using the mixer is mostly drag and drop movements (except the buttons). Having to open the environment or use the main (arrange) window avoids accidentally dragging tracks around.

Now if only Apple can give us a mixer that is freely organisable, independent of the Tracks view!!

You already have a freely organisable mixer - the Environment.

In the Environment window, you can drag channels/faders/objects to anywhere you like.

I've been using that for many years.

 

You can group channels of multi-output instruments together, put Auxes inbetween, next to their related channels etc etc etc.

 

Think of the Environment window as an "alternative" mixer - it really is very useful in that way.

Oh I’m aware of the environment and constantly keep my templates organised. However it is crude and inefficient, very 90s in its approach much like the Hyper/Step Editor, but at least that got a huge overhaul in 10.5 and is now more intuitive and immediate drum matrix with advanced automation options. Most those features were already there to begin, it just lacked a decent, intuitive interface.. While the Environment is a great place for custom configurations and Transformer rigs, it really makes a terrible mixer in my opinion.

The Mixer pane/window is still the best place for mixing, it just simply lacks the modern convenience of “drag to rearrange”. It is 2020 after all.

very 90s in its approach much like the Hyper/Step Editor, but at least that got a huge overhaul in 10.5 and is now more intuitive and immediate drum matrix with advanced automation options. Most those features were already there to begin, it just lacked a decent, intuitive interface..

The only change to the Step Editor in 10.5, as far as I'm aware, is that it was taken out of the consolidated window tab, and is now only available as a separate window.

Perhaps you're thinking of the new "Step *Sequencer*", which is a different thing to the Step *Editor*.

very 90s in its approach much like the Hyper/Step Editor, but at least that got a huge overhaul in 10.5 and is now more intuitive and immediate drum matrix with advanced automation options. Most those features were already there to begin, it just lacked a decent, intuitive interface..

 

The only change to the Step Editor in 10.5, as far as I'm aware, is that it was taken out of the consolidated window tab, and is now only available as a separate window.

 

Perhaps you're thinking of the new "Step *Sequencer*", which is a different thing to the Step *Editor*.

The Step Sequencer IS the Step Editor, reskinned, relabelled and improved workflow. What you can do in the Step Sequencer you could do in the Step Editor, it was just unusable before the improvements. I did a straight up comparison you could even automate from the Step Editor, it was just difficult to setup.

I know it’s not as fun to think of it as an upgrade so just do what I do, pretend I don’t know what I know and just have fun with it like it is new.

The Step Sequencer IS the Step Editor, reskinned, relabelled and improved workflow. What you can do in the Step Sequencer you could do in the Step Editor, it was just unusable before the improvements.

Sorry, but no it isn't.

The Step Editor is still there. It lets you edit regular MIDI regions, and you can edit notes, you can edit controllers - it's a general purpose MIDI editor with some specialised tools (like the piano roll is). It can be used to edit drums, or MIDI performances, or controller data. It can even be used to do basic step sequencing, but it's not really a good tool for this.

The Step Sequencer is not a general MIDI editor. It can't edit controller data. it's a specialised tool optimised for step sequencing and drum pattern creation, has a bunch of new improved workflow features for this task. It's very cool, but it's not a MIDI editor.

If the Step Sequencer was a reworked Step Editor, the Step Editor would no longer be there.

The Step Sequencer IS the Step Editor, reskinned, relabelled and improved workflow. What you can do in the Step Sequencer you could do in the Step Editor, it was just unusable before the improvements.

 

Sorry, but no it isn't.

 

The Step Editor is still there. It lets you edit regular MIDI regions, and you can edit notes, you can edit controllers - it's a general purpose MIDI editor with some specialised tools (like the piano roll is). It can be used to edit drums, or MIDI performances, or controller data. It can even be used to do basic step sequencing, but it's not really a good tool for this.

 

The Step Sequencer is not a general MIDI editor. It can't edit controller data. it's a specialised tool optimised for step sequencing and drum pattern creation, has a bunch of new improved workflow features for this task. It's very cool, but it's not a MIDI editor.

 

If the Step Sequencer was a reworked Step Editor, the Step Editor would no longer be there.

Yes there are some small differences, but really 80% - 90% or it is overlap. Most of the mechanics in the Step Editor is in the Step Sequencer. From a programmers perspective Apple just changed the UI , improved the workflow and added a feature or two. Which is normal for any “upgrade”. As is dropping any “legacy” stuff that isn’t as relevant as it was 30 years ago.

It just seems to me that Apple has kept the separate window around so as not to upset the legacy users too much, which is the main reason why the Environment is still around in its present state,

The Step Sequencer IS the Step Editor, reskinned, relabelled and improved workflow.

I can see how it may look like that at first, but if you study it more in depth you'll see that it isn't. The Step Sequencer lets you edit Pattern regions while the Step editor lets you edit MIDI regions. Not saying there aren't similarities but no, the Step Sequencer isn't a reskinned Step editor.

The Step Sequencer IS the Step Editor, reskinned, relabelled and improved workflow.

I can see how it may look like that at first, but if you study it more in depth you'll see that it isn't. The Step Sequencer lets you edit Pattern regions while the Step editor lets you edit MIDI regions. Not saying there aren't similarities but no, the Step Sequencer isn't a reskinned Step editor.

Subtle differences. Dive in deeper, compare the feature set. It’s almost the same, feature for feature, minus the antiquated midi workflow from yesteryear. The features are in different places though. Automation in the Step Editor is anyone’s best guess as it’s not labeled, but if you add some automation in the Arrange it appears in the Step Editor. It’s horrible to work with this way, hence the workflow improvements in the Step Sequencer

No, there's lots of cool stuff you can do in the step sequencer you can't do in the step editor, including random/generative stuff, independent looping lanes. They are really two different things, despite ostensibly sequencing notes, with a different toolset.

And you certainly can't edit a MIDI region in the step sequencer.

And yes, you can use both to make drum patterns - along with the piano roll, the score editor, Ultrabeat, the main arrange window, the environment, and all the other tools with which you can make sequences of notes...

Anyway, I'm not going to argue the point (which has been sufficiently made), so...

Given that the two start from the same step-based editing general idea I suppose we could sit here all day arguing back and forth wether they're the same or different. The truth is, they have some similarities and some differences, however saying that they share the same feature set and that the only difference is the skin is false.

compare the feature set. It’s almost the same, feature for feature, minus the antiquated midi workflow from yesteryear. The features are in different places though.

In the Step editor, in what different places do you find the following Step Sequencer features?

• Chance

• Start Offset

• Row Loop Start/End

• Step Rate

• Skip

• Note Repeat

• Octave

• Tie

• Rotate

• Increment/Decrement buttons

• Row icons

• Row colors

• Step color by region

• Mute/Solo row

• Step settings

• Step Repeat

• Zoom Focused Row

• Pattern regions containing automation for audio tracks

• Pattern regions invididual pattern/row/step/view settings saved with the pattern

• Rows and Subrows

• Ping-Pong

• Backward

• Random

• Scale Quantize

• Pattern browser

• Automation Learn mode

• Offline preview

Step Editor and Step Sequencer are totally different. Step Editor is just a kind of grid to edit midi events instead of the piano roll. Step Sequencer deals with meta data. this is totally different. i can understand the similarities. There are times when I'd rather use the Step Editor! But there is a lot of stuff Step Sequencer can do that Step Editor simply cannot come even close. They are really completely different mainly because Step Sequencer abstracts patterns more and then you can have rows of different length, polyrhythms, reverse the order, alternate, random, bla bla...all kinds of stuff to generate ideas... I really see Step Sequencer as more of an idea generator.

Like a work flow might be, play around with Step Sequencer, develop some ideas... export to a normal midi region when you have a pattern you like...then use Step Editor to do final tweaks.

Given that the two start from the same step-based editing general idea I suppose we could sit here all day arguing back and forth wether they're the same or different. The truth is, they have some similarities and some differences, however saying that they share the same feature set and that the only difference is the skin is false.

 

compare the feature set. It’s almost the same, feature for feature, minus the antiquated midi workflow from yesteryear. The features are in different places though.

In the Step editor, in what different places do you find the following Step Sequencer features?

• Chance

• Start Offset

• Row Loop Start/End

• Step Rate

• Skip

• Note Repeat

• Octave

• Tie

• Rotate

• Increment/Decrement buttons

• Row icons

• Row colors

• Step color by region

• Mute/Solo row

• Step settings

• Step Repeat

• Zoom Focused Row

• Pattern regions containing automation for audio tracks

• Pattern regions invididual pattern/row/step/view settings saved with the pattern

• Rows and Subrows

• Ping-Pong

• Backward

• Random

• Scale Quantize

• Pattern browser

• Automation Learn mode

• Offline preview

Okay lets look at this another way. The Step Editor itself was pretty much unusable, the interface was pretty horribly and many of the features buried, it was horribly 90s, or earlier. So if you were Apple and thought to yourself, "damn, we should fix this thing, what can we change, what can we add to make it more useable?"

So you's start out by ditching the Pen, so the step settings become dependent on the grid your using, that would be a UI improvement as would row colors and icons. You'd ditch old school MIDI and integrate the "newer" approach or working with it via the External Instrument and you'd also make so that it more readily works with other plugins too. This is the 2020s after all. You make some of those handy Transformer functions more immediately available so you get your Scale Quantise and pretty much everything you find in the Functions menu. Though we could drop better than Reverse Position and make that an actual function built in the grid. Hell while we're at it lets throw in Random and Chance as well, lets make that an upgrade feature. And instead of making people create new row with everything they want to do how about we improve the UI and user experience by keeping everything together and doing folder like thing with all the lanes related to a particular track.

It's even in the same spot as the predecessor was. Name changes don't necessarily suggest a new feature, look at the Piano Roll, that used to be called the Matrix and the Step Editor was Hyper Editor, once upon a time. Yet they weren't new, just a relabelling. Apple has also never removed anything from the Main Window to add a new feature, they just created a new tab. Just look at Smart Tempo and the Audio Track editor feature that they introduced years back, both were new tabs. There's enough room in the interface to add the Step Sequencer alongside the Step Editor, yet oddly, thats not what happened. Instead, rather curiously, the Step Sequencer is now where the Step Editor should be. It supports much of the same features, has a shinier UI, improved workflow and a few other improvements on top.

So when you look at a more complete picture it suggests upgrade more than it does anything new.

But hey, whether it is or isn't is of little consequence. It's not important whether people think its new or if its an upgrade. It wont change its functionality, it wont stop them working with it. Forget what it is or what it isn't, none of that will matter when we're making music.

It’s a lovely story, but purely fictional with no basis in reality, I’m afraid.

We'll have to disagree there. There is far, too many contributing factors to ignore, but its pointless devolving into an argument about it.

But Simon, Step editor isn't even a step sequencer. It's a step based MIDI editor. It's using the project's transport to play the contents of the MIDI region you open in it. Step Sequencer is, well, a step sequencer, which is fundamentally different from a MIDI editor. It doesn't have a playhead, is not tied to the project transport, each row can playback at its own rate, each individual step can slow down or speed up playback of the row, having its own individual rate, each step can be skipped, some rows can go faster than others, they don't all have the same length... no matter how many transformers you use, there's just no way to do that in the step editor.

For example you can't program a 4 against 3 in the step editor.

IMO they're fundamentally different tools.

Agree to disagree!

But Simon, Step editor isn't even a step sequencer. It's a step based MIDI editor. It's using the project's transport to play the contents of the MIDI region you open in it. Step Sequencer is, well, a step sequencer, which is fundamentally different from a MIDI editor. It doesn't have a playhead, is not tied to the project transport, each row can playback at its own rate, each individual step can slow down or speed up playback of the row, having its own individual rate, each step can be skipped, some rows can go faster than others, they don't all have the same length... no matter how many transformers you use, there's just no way to do that in the step editor.

 

For example you can't program a 4 against 3 in the step editor.

 

IMO they're fundamentally different tools.

 

Agree to disagree!

Yes but a large part of its functionality was to set it up and use it like a sequencer for drums originally, as well as use it for midi movements. However, Logic has since upped its game with Automation so the midi features were commonly best addressed elsewhere.

The fact that can sequence now just makes the Step Editor more function and usable in the common day and you can still use it to edit midi info, so long as your using a software instrument or the external instrument plugin. There is just too much overwhelming stuff for me to ignore.

You can do 4 against 3 in the Step Editor by giving each lane their own "grid" setting and pen size

But yes, agree to disagree.

But yes, agree to disagree.

Well then at last we agree!