David Nahmani Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'm getting confused! It seems some people call downbeat only the first beat of a bar, while others call downbeat beats 1 and 3, calling beat 2 and 4 upbeats, while yet others call downbeats beats 1, 2, 3 and 4, and upbeat the 1/8th notes in between (so, in Logic, 1 1 3 1, 1 2 3 1, 1 3 3 1 and 1 4 3 1. Which is correct? Searched google, but couldn't find any reliable authority on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 OK, I looked it up in the dictionary, seems all those definitions are valid. makes it nearly impossible to communicate! up·beat : an unaccented beat or portion of a beat in a musical measure; specifically : the last beat of the measure down·beat : the downward stroke of a conductor indicating the principally accented note of a measure of music; also : the first beat of a measure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlayne22 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I hope this clearifies something. In music I have learned that in a 4/4 bar the accents are "traditionally" 1 is the hardest beat, 2 is soft, 3 is harder than2 but softer than 1 and 4 is 'traditionally" the softest. If that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlayne22 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 O and one more thing that came directly out of a music theory book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtonic Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I guess the definitions are variable depending on what your grid is currently set at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 I guess the definitions are variable depending on what your grid is currently set at. I'm not sure what you mean? If you'd care to develop, I'm genuinely interested. Unless you were just joking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtonic Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Just joking. Saying you could think of the Downbeat as 1 and 3 and the Upbeat as 2 and 4 in a Matrix Window set to 1/4 grid. In an 1/8 grid your downbeats would be 1, 2, 3 and 4, and your upbeats would be all the "ands". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Well your joke has a point though... I just wish there was a simple definition of the words, but it seems that's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatz Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 having had some drumming tuition i would call the upbeat: all beats which are played with an upwards motion of the hand or just bouncing along. in other words all notes which are not accented, and carry the groove along instead of slamming it down. the downbeat IMO refers directly to the drummers hand falling down resulting in a predominant or accented stroke. so the downbeat is equivalent to the foundation of a beat whereas the upbeats are the 'ghost' hits, creating dynamics, providing an offset for the foundation. something along those lines anyway.... whether the first beat of a 4/4 pattern or all 4 notes are the downbeat or not depends entirely on the music/genre ! i wouldn't lose sleep over it in any case: bonne nuit il est temps que je me couche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Bon ben d'accord! OK thanks, that makes a lot of sense. So in a typical rock beat where you have the hi hat playing every single 1/8th note, and the kick on 1 and 3 and the snare on 2 and 4, what's the upbeat? Would you call the snare hit a downbeat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xs4is Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 The upbeat is the one you want to punch because he's always so perky and the downbeat is the one you want to punch because he's always so negative. Really though, (not that what I think/do will affect what others think up/down beats are) I've always gone with the head bob method. When you bob your head to a song, the upbeat is the top of the head bobbing motion while the down is the bottom of said motion. Works for me. X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatz Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 i would indeed call the kick and snare downbeats in a typical rock beat. xs4is's point about head nodding is proof of this ( in most cases) cos ya most likely to nod ya head 4 times during a bar of rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 The head bobbing trick is great! Thanks xs4is... by the way, always meant to ask: where does your username come from, and what does it mean? Excess for eyes? So following the head bobbing method, in a fast punk song the snare is the upbeat, while in a regular tempo rock song it is a downbeat.. interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xs4is Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 The head bobbing trick is great! Thanks xs4is... Happy to help David. by the way, always meant to ask: where does your username come from, and what does it mean? Excess for eyes? Well, it's a reference to a Nirvana "icon" that was one of my favorites when I was a youngin.' Nirvana is what really got me into playing music, so it's sort of a subliminal form of "props," if you will. (see pic below) So following the head bobbing method, in a fast punk song the snare is the upbeat, while in a regular tempo rock song it is a downbeat.. interesting! Right. When I was starting out in bands, I played drums in a punk band (we sucked, LOL!) but I had to use the head-bob method to keep correct time. You should try the head bob with some more obscure songs in really odd times, like anything by Soundgarden just before they split. X('s for eyes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Awesome! I'm a huge Nirvana song, and in fact "Smells Like Teen Spirits" changed my life! That's one of those albums I had to run to the store to get immediately. Before Nirvana all my friends were into "metal", I just couldn't get into it. Nirvana, and one year later Rage Against The Machine were what I was waiting for! I guess you might have been able to tell from my avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysun Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Hi, I know that certain musical terms have different meanings, but after a 30+ year career as a working pro, playing all styles including a lot of reading gigs (reading music, playing with conductors, etc..) and "bands" (rock, jazz, latin) - the way that everyone I know uses the term is: Downbeat is any rhythmic hit that is on the beat, whether 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc... An Upbeat is not on the beat (typically an 8th note that is not on the beat) That's borne out in this typical language: No, man, you are supposed to come in on the "and of 2" or "cut that off on the downbeat of 3" Just my 2 cents. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 Cool, thanks a lot toysun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yojames Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 toysun has the closest explanation IMO so far. Playing around LA and the east coast for 20 years I've only heard the distinction in this way: In a one-bar phrase with eighth notes, you count 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and . Typically 2 and 4 are the snare hits (backbeat). All of the "ands" are considered upbeats. I'm not saying that this is the law, but I've never had a conversation with another musician that looked at me wierd when I said "come in on the and of 2". And then to check, we would play and all nodd our heads UP on the "and of 2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 Backbeat! That's one definition I forgot, thanks. Yeah I've played with in a lot of jams and I'm familiar with the "1 and 2 and.." counting system and saying things like "start on the and of 3". I just never realized that nodding the head up meant that's an upbeat. Makes a lot of sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xs4is Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I just never realized that nodding the head up meant that's an upbeat. Makes a lot of sense now. Isn't that what I said? *sigh* nobody notices me. LOL! X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 I did notice! You were the first to point that out. Thanks EXS4 eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Hi,I know that certain musical terms have different meanings, but after a 30+ year career as a working pro, playing all styles including a lot of reading gigs (reading music, playing with conductors, etc..) and "bands" (rock, jazz, latin) - the way that everyone I know uses the term is: Downbeat is any rhythmic hit that is on the beat, whether 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc... An Upbeat is not on the beat (typically an 8th note that is not on the beat) That's borne out in this typical language: No, man, you are supposed to come in on the "and of 2" or "cut that off on the downbeat of 3" Just my 2 cents. J Sorry I am late to the thread but Toysun got it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysun Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Guys, Head nodding is not an acceptable technique for conveying music! Good teachers teach students to break the head nodding habit, for obvious reasons... stiff neck being only one of them J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xs4is Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Fine. Don't nod your head. Or bop it. Or bang it. Tap your foot instead. LOL!!! X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editbrain Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 i always see people nodding their head down to rock and metal, etc. then i see them nodding their head up when listening to house music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 ...unless you're an old white person who only knows how to clap on the 1 and 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtonic Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 David, did you ask this question for your book? I just got to the Ultrabeat chapter where you're discussing downbeats and upbeats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 David, did you ask this question for your book? I just got to the Ultrabeat chapter where you're discussing downbeats and upbeats. Yup. I was thrown off by Ultrabeat's downbeat/upbeat definitions. Tell any classically trained musician that there's more than one downbeat in a bar and they'll laugh at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 .... I'm a huge Nirvana song I always thought you were a real person and not a song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 .... I'm a huge Nirvana song I always thought you were a real person and not a song! DOH' !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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