ollysses Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hi, Since the update to LPX 10.2.1 I have a negative latency when recording midi tracks. When I play+record a midi instrument on the click (say I'm accurate) Logic will record the midi notes almost a 16th too early (at 120 bpm). It is as if Logic wants to compensate some latency but heavily overdoes it. I have this problem in my quite large orchestra template so I testet it also with a plain default song: There it doesn't appear. But as soon as I instanciate and connect some Vienna Ensemble Pros the negative delay happens. I tried already everything with the audio and recording settings but that didn't help. Audio is not affected btw. it's just a midi problem. Any ideas? Thank you, Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Have you tried using the Playback & Live tracks preferences in Preferences > Audio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprok Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have the same here, I rely on Logic and I am desperate, I should have never update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFierce Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I posted this exact same thing! Same problem here. Do we know whats going on yet?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Is this only happening when using VEP? Have you contacted Vienna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFierce Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I don't use Vienna here. Happens with any midi / AU instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks, that's interesting. Did you try to change the Multithread preference to Playback & Live tracks? Is this happening on an empty new vanilla project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFierce Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Interesting. Vanilla project, doesn't happen. Template, still happens. Template plus Playback & Live Tracks, seems to fix it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFierce Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Nevrermind. Spoke to soon. Still happens in template, with Playback & Live tracks. Must have just been closer to what Logic thought was "late" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprok Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 For me, it's not that big but very noticeable when playing a midi instrument like Kontakt, before the update it was very tight, and the timing was perfect. I have deleted the plist, updated all my plugins including Kontakt and EW play. I guess I will wait and see if there is a fix coming in shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rderix Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The same thing happens to me but when using an external Midi instrument, in this case the Nord Piano. I have hooked it up via USB channel 16 (no other instrument is using this channel) and opened a song I was working on. Huge delay while playing a midi recording. The pianoroll shows everything perfectly quantised so no issue there. I did check all the previously mentioned settings and mine were exactly like that: - multithreading playback & live tracks I also restarted my computer, switched off/on the Nord etc, no changes, still a playback delay. When I create a new project and record the exact same part on the exact same Nord Piano and then play it it does not have a delay. The original recording of the song where I want to add the Nord Piano part was also created and recorded with 10.2.1. This to me looks like a bug in the fresh 10.2.1 update... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollysses Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Sorry for my absence... Yeah, like everybody already reported here the preferences don't change anything. Also it doesn't appear in a vanilla song. Obviously a bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Could you guys test if the behaviour is somehow remedied by changing Plug-in Latency Compensation from All to Audio and Instrument tracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollysses Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 It doesn't change a thing here whether Plug-in Latency Compensation is off, all or audio and instrument tracks. Also Low Latency Mode on / off doesn't affect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Thanks ollysses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Same here. Created a thread about it a while ago, nobody really chimed in - but I am kinda glad it's not just me and it is actually (very annoying) bug. Really annoying having to adjust every MIDI recording you do afterwards. What an oversight.... Anyone reported this to Apple yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollysses Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 I reported it to Apple today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rderix Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Yes, I also reported it. Let's see what happens next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leytonnz Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 as per my post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122279 i have the same problem but assumed its because i was on 10 .9 obviously its more widespread. i upgraded to 10.9.5 and it was still there trashed my preferences and it went away... but logic was unusable with menus not working and the inability to Quit.. so i went back to 10.2.0 i posted feedback to apple and a representative got in contact with me a few days later.to ask for a suspect project. Hopefully they will do the same for you. Leyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think the issue is still there with new projects I create. I tried setting a delay on the click instrument - e.g. I found out that a 70ms delay worked well, and made things recording in time, so hey - a workaround! But no! The offset seems to be ticks based, not absolute in sample terms. On another track, where the meter is quicker and the tempo different, 30ms seemed to work better. So you can't just set an absolute delay on the click and it will fix it for you. Something is definitely broken here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardae Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I do not know if you noticed, but in 10.2.1 they finally got full UI latency compensation. This means that what you see is slightly different, and might be initially confusing because of our habits. Biggest change: when there's audio latency, when you record MIDI events, they are now placed where they should be: i.e. on the Playhead line, exactly matching what you hear coming out of Logic in that moment. This was not the case before. So, from what I understood, in 10.2.1 you should consider the following 2 cases: CASE 1 - Mixing your hardware synths externally if you are externally mixing your hardware MIDI synth with the audio coming from Logic (i.e. you use external hardware mixer, or even just the built-in hardware mixer in your audio device), and you have some plugins in the Logic master adding latency, then you will have to: - make sure that "Preferences>Audio>General>Plugin In Latency Compensation" is set to All - make sure your MIDI track has "Delay" set to "Auto Compensated Delay Offset" If you do not do so, of course your MIDI track will be played early respect to what you see on screen (to match the plugin delay). CASE 2 - Mixing your hardware synths through the Logic audio engine If instead your external MIDI synth is going to be mixed inside logic (example: through an aux/bus/input audio object), then you do *not* have to set the Delay parameter to "Auto Compensated Delay Offset" The considerations above solved what I initially thought was a MIDI timing issue (it was not). Hopefully they do the same for you! Nard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Sorry, but that is just silly arguments. If you record stuff (MIDI) according to the metronome, and everything you record will be early, GRAPHICALLY. Which means OFF BEAT, that is just dead wrong. This is the most silly defending of software (or Apple) I have yet to see. So now, I should just get a new HABIT and accept that nothing is on the grid/beats anymore? How would that work for an orchestra? Just let them have everything placed 1/8th of a beat early, they will do that no problem! Works very well for copy/pasting, moving stuff around, works great in your head too - you just have to remember that everything is compensated for you visually, so everything is placed too early, but it WILL play on the beat because of plugin comepensation or something... lol.... This takes the prize 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardae Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 If you record stuff (MIDI) according to the metronome, and everything you record will be early, GRAPHICALLY. Which means OFF BEAT, that is just dead wrong. Absolutely, but that's not what I saw in my case. Everything here was properly aligned when recording against the internal (klopfgeist) metronome. Playback was aligned too (I was mixing externally), once the "Auto delay" setting was used on the track. Out of curiosity, in the example you made, were you recording listening to the klopfgeist metronome, or were you using a MIDI metronome sent to some external synth/module/slave? Thanks! Nard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Have always used internal click (klopfgeist), and it's now seriously f*cked.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Sorry, but that is just silly arguments. Nardae is trying to help you out. There's nothing "silly" about that. As he points out there has been a huge change in the latency compensation department. What happens if you create a new project from scratch with only one EXS instance. Do you experience the same misplacement? What does your MIDI input chain look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Nothing in my "midi chain" has changed and many people are reporting this. This is a new bug. And it happens with new projects too with any VI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFierce Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Agreed. I'm playing to a click. Not watching where I should hit the notes. Definitely a bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I do not know if you noticed, but in 10.2.1 they finally got full UI latency compensation. Where did you get this information and what exactly is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It's in the release notes. Search for "delay compensation". This has been one of my most awaited fixes since I started to use Logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 what exactly is it? The video signal sent to your display is now delayed to be in sync with the (delayed) audio signal. So that when you see the playhead reach bar 9, you hear bar 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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