fisherking Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 ok, i hear you. but... what year is your MBP? just curious. my 2015 runs the fans sometimes, so i get it. 2012 13" i5 and a 2014 15" i7 that i got later thinking it was gong to be better, but sold the 2014 as the GPU was more problematic with noise/heat. Took that money and ploughed it into a Mac Pro which has been superb. meanwhile, my limo does not have AC, so when i work there, it is sometimes a problem... It's ok, you can enable the hydraulic lifts in the suspension to bounce some air through i'm sure. Grrrrr.. you americans and your fancy gadgets.. and limos, and fans and stuff!! *shakes fist*! even simpler than that; i tear off the bottom of my MBP, and let the mac's fans cool me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 you mean heat on a side note, since you mentioned it, i just swapped Cypher2 for u-he Bazille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 you mean heat on a side note, since you mentioned it, i just swapped Cypher2 for u-he Bazille. cypher 2 (which i really like) OWNS the cpu, but it's already in too many works to abandon. but will check out bazille (i already have zebra & hive). thanx. sure it's heat, but it's blowing heat (the blowing part is fun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Don't expect Bazille to be that much better on the CPU But i highly recommend it, i completely neglected it but it's growing on me, and i suspect it you could like it if you like Cypher. I really really liked the sound of Cypher, and Bazille can do similarly crazy things, but the whole editing experience just didn't seat well with me and i found the GUI just a little laggy. MPE support is great tho. I have similar issues with Strobe, but the worst Fxpansion offender is probably BFD3. (And i love sound of all of them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 i hear the fan on my macbook pro... sometimes, and mostly, when i'm exporting my mix. so, i get my work done... as do people using imacs for serious music production. but i'll let them know you said it's not ok.... he said serious music production, my point was that "serious music production" bar can be set at various points, and that the bar he set at "21inch is not enough" is just as arbitrary as "iMac is not good". In a 100% professional studio you won't have a piece of hardware contaminating the environment with noise, which means iMac is not a question. On the other hand, if you're making beats, mixing less resource consuming projects or not doing the finest touches at the end or don't even have professionally treated space, it's very likely going to be great. Try doing mixing ambience in film post production with fans making ambient noise for example. Or don't. Rather, don't. Indeed, it depends on how you define "serious music production." To me, that means something that is of commercial release quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 he said serious music production, my point was that "serious music production" bar can be set at various points, and that the bar he set at "21inch is not enough" is just as arbitrary as "iMac is not good". In a 100% professional studio you won't have a piece of hardware contaminating the environment with noise, which means iMac is not a question. On the other hand, if you're making beats, mixing less resource consuming projects or not doing the finest touches at the end or don't even have professionally treated space, it's very likely going to be great. Try doing mixing ambience in film post production with fans making ambient noise for example. Or don't. Rather, don't. Indeed, it depends on how you define "serious music production." To me, that means something that is of commercial release quality. agreed; but the question may be, how do you define 'commercial release quality'? a lil pump record is 'commercial release quality', yet, sonically, no one will mistake it for, say, a sting album. personally, anything i like i consider 'commercial release quality'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 And that is why the state of the quality of recorded music is the way it is today. I will leave it there, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 And that is why the state of the quality of recorded music is the way it is today. I will leave it there, you mean, because music has become more democratized, and the vibe, the feel, has become more important than the tech? amen. (& because nothing is more boring than an overly-nuanced sting album). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 And that is why the state of the quality of recorded music is the way it is today. I will leave it there, Haha, I like the use of a comma after a final statement like that! ...we know you wanna rant really hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 he said serious music production, my point was that "serious music production" bar can be set at various points, and that the bar he set at "21inch is not enough" is just as arbitrary as "iMac is not good". In a 100% professional studio you won't have a piece of hardware contaminating the environment with noise, which means iMac is not a question. On the other hand, if you're making beats, mixing less resource consuming projects or not doing the finest touches at the end or don't even have professionally treated space, it's very likely going to be great. Try doing mixing ambience in film post production with fans making ambient noise for example. Or don't. Rather, don't. Indeed, it depends on how you define "serious music production." To me, that means something that is of commercial release quality. I really honestly fail to see why 21.5" iMac isn't fit for serious music production in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I really honestly fail to see why 21.5" iMac isn't fit for serious music production in that case. Well, this is why definitions like 'serious' is just balls. If you're using outboard and dsp then you can mix/product on a core2duo. Hobbyist EDM users can have fair greater CPU requirements than serious/professional users for that reason, particularly when they're not educated in how to arrange projects to minimise CPU bottlenecks or are greater sample rates than is truly needed. It's a massive bonus to be able to have everything running in realtime, but it's not a necessity at all. And i can still visit two studios within 10 miles of where i am now and they're running LP9 and Pro Tools on pre i5 machines and still making money, because people coming in want to use their outboard. A new 21.5" imac would be a massive upgrade in terms of CPU power. But they're serious about music, not computers. I think it's the less 'serious' users that put more weight on to CPU speeds and all the other shenanigans that doesn't directly affect your ability to output/produce great music and services for musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Indeed, it depends on how you define "serious music production." To me, that means something that is of commercial release quality. I really honestly fail to see why 21.5" iMac isn't fit for serious music production in that case. we started a session at a (small) studio upstate ny last night... 2018 21" imac. silent.runs beautifully. and i can engineer (since they're running logic 10.4.4). if it gets the job done, and we make a great EP... then we'll have done a 'pro' recording, of 'commercial release quality'. (my original plan was to use my 2015 macbook pro.... just mentioning!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 impossible you need 27" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darude Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Serious enough or not, but just to chime in here that my latest releases, 3 Eurovision Song Contest candidate tracks of which one will represent Finland in May, were all produced on an early 2009 Mac Pro "hacked" to be 5,1 so that I can run Sierra and 10.4.x Logic on it, and alongside that when on the road on a 2018 MBP. Also, not to be a jack-ass, but there are tracks on Kendrick Lamar's album that this guy made on his iPhone. (https://genius.com/a/steve-lacy-explains-how-he-produces-grammy-nominated-songs-on-his-iphone) Not sure if anybody's interested in my setup changes, but here it is anyway: I'm in the process of retiring that studio rig, though, and am now working with the laptop and a bigger screen in the studio as well, which is nice and plenty of power for me. At the same time it's initially been a pain in the ass, because I've had to sort out external docks for the extra internal harddrives of the old MP and also to connect and chain my old FireWire devices. I've got a 14-port OWC TB3 dock and an older Elgato TB2 dock to connect all that I need and a MOTU 1248 to replace my 2002 bought (!) 2408mk3 and 24i/o. In theory, chaining everything thru the OWC dock it all works conveniently thru one TB3 cable, which also powers the laptop, but I'm still testing if there's a benefit in connecting the docks or anything else separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 impossible you need 27" that would, i suppose, make the music 6 inches better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 OK, every time I throw out a quick glib comment, I end up regretting it. Let me correct it. It's certainly true that the more outboard gear you have, the less important the power of the computer is. And it's certainly true that if you are creating music that doers not involve using demanding sample libraries, the power of the computer is less important. And it's certainly true that people create good work using all kinds of systems, old and new, less and more powerful, by freezing tracks, committing to audio, etc. It just is a lot more arduous to do it. So the question I should have asked Glenn is what kind of musical work he wants to accomplish. IF he intends to use a lot of demanding sample libraries as I do (and I think I have seen him on the EW forum?) then that machine.would make it very arduous indeed. If not, it might be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn L. Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 OK, every time I throw out a quick glib comment, I end up regretting it. Let me correct it. It's certainly true that the more outboard gear you have, the less important the power of the computer is. And it's certainly true that if you are creating music that doers not involve using demanding sample libraries, the power of the computer is less important. And it's certainly true that people create good work using all kinds of systems, old and new, less and more powerful, by freezing tracks, committing to audio, etc. It just is a lot more arduous to do it. So the question I should have asked Glenn is what kind of musical work he wants to accomplish. IF he intends to use a lot of demanding sample libraries as I do (and I think I have seen him on the EW forum?) then that machine.would make it very arduous indeed. If not, it might be just fine. No, I have never been on the EW forum. Not that I can recall. A few years ago, I tried their subscription package, decided after 2 months it wasn't for me, and canceled it. Whether I posted once or twice there, I can't recall, but I don't think so. What I make uses a combination of audio and VIs, I have a few decent sample libraries, and they don't seem to really make this CPU sweat. It's usually FX, like a bunch of T-rackS, and the Abbey Road Plate and Chambers that cause single thread spikes, but that is @64 sample buffer. I'd say my avg. project was 16-24 tracks, a good 50/50% audio and VIs. This computer handles everything I can throw at it. I don't know if one of those 21" i5s could. 32Gig RAM gives me lots of breathing space, and the 4 ghz Fusion Drive is pretty fast. As I said, I just hope it lasts another couple of years. So, I am not doing orchestral mockups or soundtrack stuff. I am intending on composing for my own home-made videos this year. Time to challenge myself a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'd argue drive speed is more important than CPU when doing a lot of disk streaming with huge sample libraries, also, you can get away with less RAM if you stream more. I've written this somewhere else, but i'll reiterate it: the NVMe drives are so stupid fast, you don't even need RAM to use sample libraries. But programmers of these things are still using decades old principles when 7200RPM HDD was the fastest thing available. But yeah, there's no workaround for programmer stupidity. I'd say my avg. project was 16-24 tracks, a good 50/50% audio and VIs. This computer handles everything I can throw at it. I don't know if one of those 21" i5s could. 32Gig RAM gives me lots of breathing space, and the 4 ghz Fusion Drive is pretty fast. As I said, I just hope it lasts another couple of years. So, I am not doing orchestral mockups or soundtrack stuff. I am intending on composing for my own home-made videos this year. Time to challenge myself a bit. fwiw, 21.5" i5 is noticably faster than the i7 Quad in your machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 fwiw, 21.5" i5 is noticably faster than the i7 Quad in your machine. Really? Is that what the benchmarks show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 fwiw, 21.5" i5 is noticably faster than the i7 Quad in your machine. Really? Is that what the benchmarks show? they do! multicore performance is better, single core is 10% better on the quad, but it's not as relevant. (it's better on the iMac than on the iMac Pro). it's 6 physical cores and newer generation vs 4 physical but multithreaded cores - if it weren't better something would be wrong (the i5 is the same chip as the 6core in the mac mini, so benchmarks roughly apply) edit: just noticed there's two i5s in the 21.5" iMac. i was referring to the 6-core one. the i7 6-core of the 21.5" tho for 200$ is even better, it smokes the previous quad i7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcariou Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 One drawback to the 21.5” iMac is that the memory cannot be upgraded by the user and maxes out at 32GB. And that 32GB is an eye-watering $600! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 isn't it just notoriously hard to do so? Heatgun and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 funny; after reading thru this thread, i've decided to replace my (2015) macbook pro with.. the new imac. am not travelling like i was, and i only mix here, so, i don't need a macbook pro for work. going for the i7 21" (16g ram, 512gb ssd). and am excited to meet the challenge, to do "serious music production" on an imac. will post once i get it (and only if there's anything interesting to post). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Make sure to use a big boy 'serious' bank card, fisherking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Make sure to use a big boy 'serious' bank card, fisherking. not an apple card? or better yet, your credit card... (which is my actual plan)...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 funny; after reading thru this thread, i've decided to replace my (2015) macbook pro with.. the new imac. am not travelling like i was, and i only mix here, so, i don't need a macbook pro for work. going for the i7 21" (16g ram, 512gb ssd). and am excited to meet the challenge, to do "serious music production" on an imac. will post once i get it (and only if there's anything interesting to post). same CPU as in my Mini thing is a beast... have yet to choke no matter what I throw at it. Running Bazille, Repro and Diva all in HQ mode multiple instances. except i have 32GB of RAM. same 512GB SSD. I ordered a Thunderbolt3/NVMe case from Ali for 80€, then fitted it with Samsung 970EVO 1TB. It's as fast as the internal drive, so my actual internal drive doesn't see much action, works better than i expected (I expected it would be great, but it's amazing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 funny; after reading thru this thread, i've decided to replace my (2015) macbook pro with.. the new imac. am not travelling like i was, and i only mix here, so, i don't need a macbook pro for work. going for the i7 21" (16g ram, 512gb ssd). and am excited to meet the challenge, to do "serious music production" on an imac. will post once i get it (and only if there's anything interesting to post). same CPU as in my Mini thing is a beast... have yet to choke no matter what I throw at it. Running Bazille, Repro and Diva all in HQ mode multiple instances. except i have 32GB of RAM. same 512GB SSD. I ordered a Thunderbolt3/NVMe case from Ali for 80€, then fitted it with Samsung 970EVO 1TB. It's as fast as the internal drive, so my actual internal drive doesn't see much action, works better than i expected (I expected it would be great, but it's amazing) thanx, good info. am NOT dropping $600 for 32gb ram (damn u, apple!), but it's the ONLY thing i'll run on the imac (or FCPX). either way, it should do more than my current macbook pro... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Yeah i wouldnt either, i replaced it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Yeah i wouldnt either, i replaced it myself ram cannot be user-upgraded in the 21" 2019 imac, sigh (only the 27"); i may just go for 32gb now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 frankly with new quick PCIe SSDs, paging doesnt seem as system bogging as it used to. I lived on 8GB for a month and a half before upgrading and it was surprisingly fine, i'm pretty sure i could live with 16GB. You can't even upgrade it down the road? (when warranty runs out) is it just inaccessible without heatgun or soldered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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