PJ Jin Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Hello, Recently, I just tried out Normalize Region Gain under Functions in order to do gain staging before mixing. However, when I apply Normalize region gain function to all tracks, it seems to work on only some tracks but not all. As a result, I have to adjust the Gain on Inspector individually for each track that is not working. So, I am curious to know why Normalize Region Gain can only be applied to some tracks but not another? Thank you in advance. (Logic Pro X ver 10.4.7) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicben Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Normalizing is NOT a reliable way for adjusting gain. If you normalize an audio file, the gain will be changed till the waveform reaches the maximum somewhere in the file. This could be a short peak somewhere in the audio file, even you are not able to notice the peak. And it also differs from file to file or region to region. You also don't have any control about the amount of gain change. There are 2 better possibilties, • Non-desructive: Put a gain-changing plugin like a limiter on the track, adjust the levels, then control-click the region, choose "bounce in place", a new audiofile will be created. or • Destructive: Control-click the region, choose "selection-based processing", choose and adjust your gain-changing-plugins like limiter and proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Ben, Jin is talking about Normalize Region Gain, which a) is non-destructive, b) can normalize to any level you want and c) can also normalize measuring integrated loudness (EBU R-128). The fact that it can normalize the regions of a selection independently or as a group makes it a godsend. Jin, it could be that some of your tracks are clipped and thus at 100% already ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Jin Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 Thank you Fuzzfilth for clarifying my point to Ben. Anyway, the point is that when I apply “Normalize Region Gain” let’s say -18dBFs (adjusted down) on Kick and Tom tracks, they both work fine. But again when I apply ”Normalize Region Gain” to Snare track, nothing is happening. So, i was wondering why that is or am I missing something? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Without further info I can only guess. Is it a Take Folder ? You'd need to flatten that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Jin Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 They are not in the folder. To make myself clear, I just import all the tracks (WAV files) into Logic then I try to do gain staging before mixing to those tracks by using the ‘Normalize region gain’ under the functions and applying them all to -18dBFs Peak (For All tracks). But nothing is happening. So, I try to adjust each track individually by using ‘Normalize region gain’ again, it works on most of the tracks but just a few tracks that when I apply ‘Normalize Region Gain’ to -18dBFs Peak, the gains of waveforms for these few tracks won’t change to -18dBFs Peak, they are staying the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicben Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Ben, Jin is talking about Normalize Region Gain (...) Sorry and thank you for clarification. I just learned a new command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnchristp Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Didn't know this function and I think I could like it. But it's not that easy to choose the settings. Adjusting the peaks is not a good option. Using loudness could be. Normally I use something like VUMT to adjust the gain-staging and aim to get the VU-needle at 0 (= -18db). What would be the equivalent in loudness? Does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I'd say don't overthink it. Because, what if the guitar track has sections of different dynamics? Yes, this still happens. If you like, pull up a VUMT next to a loudness meter and compare. VU has 300ms integration time, a loudness meter in momentary mode has 400ms integration time, so they're pretty close dynamically. If you aim at -18 loudness with Normalize Region Gain, you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facej Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Normalize Region Gain will *NOT* make any change to level if the maximum level of the audio file is 0 dB. Just won't do it. I find the offending (smiles) track and use the Audio File Editor to change the maximum level to just under 0.0 - once I have done that Normalize Region Gain works as expected. It's an annoyance, but I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution fuzzfilth Posted October 14, 2019 Solution Share Posted October 14, 2019 Just created an obviously clipped file and Normalize Region Gain does work when in loudness mode but does not work when in Peak mode. Please file a bug report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Please file a bug report. ... there: https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Two years later... I've encountered the same issue in Logic 10.6.1 Key command [ctrl+option+G] You should be able to auto normalise any number of selected regions to a set level but it works only on some random regions but not others You then have to go find the regions that it didn't work on and adjust these manually in the region inspector Still not fixed - It's a niche issue that barely anyone would notice but it's still there Most logic users I've met do not even know this key command exists - it would be amazing if it worked as expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Two years later...I've encountered the same issue in Logic 10.6.1 Key command [ctrl+option+G] You should be able to auto normalise any number of selected regions to a set level but it works only on some random regions but not others You then have to go find the regions that it didn't work on and adjust these manually in the region inspector Still not fixed - It's a niche issue that barely anyone would notice but it's still there Most logic users I've met do not even know this key command exists - it would be amazing if it worked as expected First of all - did you really mean to write 10.6.1? You should update to 10.7.2 then... Then: What settings did you use for Normalize Region Gain? The "Affect:" parameter is essential... The command works perfectly here, also for multiple selected regions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveLpx1 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 I use this all the time both when recording and/or getting stems/tracks from clients, and I've never noticed any problems/etc. I guess I will have to pay a little more attention just to be sure.../s~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 First of all - did you really mean to write 10.6.1? You should update to 10.7.2 then... Then: What settings did you use for Normalize Region Gain? The "Affect:" parameter is essential... The command works perfectly here, also for multiple selected regions. Yes of course I meant to say 10.6.1 - how completely absurd (and rude) of you to question whether I can count What makes you think everybody runs a system that supports the most current versions of Logic ?? My work mac does not run anything later than Catalina and therefore LPX 10.6.1 is the most recent version I can avail of currently The settings are correct - Affect: Individual Regions - does not always affect individual regions You obviously don't use it a lot, but I do and in certain cases it randomly doesn't affect some of the selected regions So it has probably worked for you the one time you had tried but that is not how you find a known bug - by trying to replicate it once Try using it hundreds of times a day - you will probably find it is still a bug even in latest versions of Logic The likelihood is that if it was a bug two years ago and is still a bug in 10.6.1 - well then it is probably a bug in 10.7.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 I use this all the time both when recording and/or getting stems/tracks from clients, and I've never noticed any problems/etc. I guess I will have to pay a little more attention just to be sure.../s~ Yes I use it hundreds of times a day If it helps I have noticed that it happens most when I have split one region into two or more separate regions I can highlight these regions - hit the shortcut - select individual regions - Target level: 0 dB Quite often it will only normalize some of the highlighted regions - which I then have to go back and do manually Always check ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Firstly, Cocker, know that I understand your frustration with your issue, and with the difficulties associated with the effort of troubleshooting it. However being as we are here to make that effort together in order to help you out, let's set a few things straight. Yes of course I meant to say 10.6.1 - how completely absurd (and rude) of you to question whether I can count That question is neither absurd, nor rude. Polanoid does not question whether you can count, only if the information listed in your signature is up to date. A lot of us (myself included) sometimes forget to keep our signature up to date, so it's routine for someone helping you to troubleshoot something to sometimes double-check that the information in your signature is up to date, especially when trying to figure out if an issue happens only on a specific system/combination of version numbers. What makes you think everybody runs a system that supports the most current versions of Logic ?? I don't believe that's what Polanoid thinks? You obviously don't use it a lot Please, no personal attacks on this forum. I have helped many, MANY Logic users on this board over the past 24 years, from version 4 to version 10.7. I have learned many things in the process. One thing I've learned is that sometimes, someone will report an issue they have that seemingly no one else present on the board at that time seems to experience, and for that reason it can be a challenge to troubleshoot. That does not necessarily mean the person reporting the issue is wrong about what they're doing or what they're reporting. That does not necessarily mean the person(s) reporting that they cannot reproduce the issue are wrong about what they're doing either, and while it can be frustrating for the person with the issue, it's important to know that someone else cannot reproduce the issue. It's part of the troubleshooting process and it can help making progress toward a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Well I never see this in 10.7.2 so the probability is high that the bug is fixed in the meantime. You may want to upload an example project in which you encounter it, I'll be happy to check if it still happens in 10.7.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Oh and thanks David! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 BTW I just took the time and checked if this issue reported by fuzzfilth is fixed: "Just created an obviously clipped file and Normalize Region Gain does work when in loudness mode but does not work when in Peak mode. Please file a bug report." and indeed it is. Reproduces 100% in 10.4.8, doesn't occur anymore in 10.7.2 (and neither in 10.6.1, so that issue was actually fixed more than a year ago - so much for "The likelihood is that if it was a bug two years ago and is still a bug in 10.6.1 - well then it is probably a bug in 10.7.2"). Of course what you experience might be a different issue, but then you will need to report it to Apple, otherwise it will likely not get fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveLpx1 Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 ...from here, really good to know...and thanx for the followup @polanoid.../s~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 so much for "The likelihood is that if it was a bug two years ago and is still a bug in 10.6.1 - well then it is probably a bug in 10.7.2").Of course what you experience might be a different issue, but then you will need to report it to Apple, otherwise it will likely not get fixed. You didn’t discover it as a bug in 10.6.1 because even in my own experience it’s completely random. You could easily have spent hours trying and found nothing except confirmation of your own preconceptions Just because you didn’t find it does it mean it’s not there Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 So, now we have one user claiming there's a bug, but it looks like he's the only one who experiences this bug and refuses to report it to Apple or to even provide an example of how to reproduce the bug to a usually helpful forum community. How do you expect this bug would ever get fixed? Or that anyone will help you with this?Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 So, now we have one user claiming there's a bug, Check the title of the thread or did you forget what we were talking discussing in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 So, now we have one user claiming there's a bug, Check the title of the thread or did you forget what we were talking discussing in the first place? I can only repeat myself here. The bug originally discussed in the thread is fixed. You claim there is still a bug (which must be a different one) but did not provide any information on how to reproduce it, nor any example project, and you seemingly didn't report the issue to Apple. So what's your point? Do you simply want to hear you're right? OK, you're right. Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 to even provide an example of how to reproduce the bug to a usually helpful forum community. How do you expect this bug would ever get fixed? Or that anyone will help you with this?Seriously. I've explained at least twice how to reproduce it and so have others much earlier on in the thread In case you missed it several times already - you select multiple audio regions in your project - use the: Ctrl+option+G shortcut - choose: Individual Regions, Peak and whatever Target Level you like and click "Apply" What this shortcut should do is analyse the peak amplitude within a region and normalize that region to the Target amount you specified set in the Normalize Gain dialogue box. It does do this but it also often bugs out and randomly doesn't normalize some regions You have to use it an awful lot and repeatedly to encounter it I wasn't expecting the bug to be fixed. I wasn't looking for help either. I was simply pointing out that it was still a bug two years after this thread was published Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 You can't even know because you still use 10.6.1. As I said I couldn't reproduce any such thing in 10.7.1. Neither has anyone else but you experienced it AFAICT. But good to hear you're happy with just "pointing it out". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 The bug originally discussed in the thread is fixed. You claim there is still a bug (which must be a different one) but did not provide any information on how to reproduce it, nor any example project, and you seemingly didn't report the issue to Apple. So what's your point? Do you simply want to hear you're right? OK, you're right. Case closed. Unless it appears in a change log as fixed, it is not fixed Details on how to reproduce it provided several times over at this stage The bug I'm describing matches the one the thread is about - how could it possibly be a different bug? That you can't find it just means that you just haven't encountered it yet How would having a project help? - I can't see how A video might - maybe I'll make one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 See for yourself https://support.apple.com/en-ie/HT203718 the bug was reported two years ago in the thread It doesn't appear in any change log Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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