prencaudio Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I've got midi created in pro tools of a live drum performance. Notes are not on grid. But when importing the midi into logic, it moves all notes to grid. I've tried all import methods and its all the same. Both daws are in max zoom Screenshots show first note off grid in PT, Note on grid in logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 It's possible that the visual resolution is such that the note appears on the grid even if it isn't. Try to click-hold the note to see its exact position in the help tag: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prencaudio Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 I printed a spike with it and it is definitely 100% on grid vs its waveform counterpart. Very odd behaviour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 MIDI Files have a limited time resolution called PPQ (Parts Per Quarter Note) and measured in "ticks". In Pro Tools there's a clock that measures time in samples, which is a much higher resolution. It's possible that a note that is off by a few samples in Pro Tools snaps to the nearest tick once exported to a MIDI file. To determine if that's what is happening, find out the exact MIDI position of your note in ticks in Pro Tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prencaudio Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 I dont think i can find the exact tick but here's screenshot with samples listed in the top tab Could it be possible that i have some weird setting enabled in logic? Here's a link to the midi if anyone wants to see if they have the same issue https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv2z287z4de914h/Alpha%20Wolf%20LP%202%20DRT.mid?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 In logic your note is not snapped to the grid - the period after the last 2 indicates it starts after the first tick but before the 2nd tick - I haven’t downloaded your file yet - but if you zoom all the way in on the start of that note you will see it is the same as protools - you are just zoomed out too far to see it - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 That's the reason I suggest you click-hold the note to find out its exact position in Logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 That’s your pic - I thought it was his Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 I have analyzed the attached file and it appears it is being imported correctly and the quantization is in the midi file. When you export from protools there is an option called "write real-time properties" if you have that selected during the export - Protools quantization parameters are applied to the export. Did you have that option checked during the export? - can you try without it and see if that solves your issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 You can view the midi file in text format using this online tool http://www.flashmusicgames.com/midi/mid2txt.php It shows a resolution of 9600 which is 10 times higher than Logic internally. So strictly speaking, Logic's midi import is not correct. But I wonder if it really matters in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 You can view the midi file in text format using this online toolhttp://www.flashmusicgames.com/midi/mid2txt.php It shows a resolution of 9600 which is 10 times higher than Logic internally. So strictly speaking, Logic's midi import is not correct. But I wonder if it really matters in practice. Great! Thanks for sharing this tool. I have been looking for such a tool for a while and couldn't find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prencaudio Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Still no good. Despite the changes to the midi file, PT still imports it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prencaudio Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 attached midi file with realtime unselected Alpha Wolf LP2 2.0.mid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Again, here is an example demonstrating the issue. In the midi file a note of "KICK MIDI" starts at 729601 ticks. With resolution 9600 we can calculate: 729601 modulo 9600 = 1, meaning that the note starts 1 tick after the beat. However, in Logic with lower resolution 960 this corresponds to 0.1 ticks, which must be converted to an integer, i.e. truncated/rounded to 0. Thus in Logic the note starts exactly on the beat. The time interval of ticks in Logic is about 1 ms at 60 bpm. So in this example the timing error on import would be 0.1 ms. Generally the error due to rounding will be in the range +/- 0.5 ms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prencaudio Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 So by that token you could never have phase accurate midi to audio in logic? Surely that couldn’t be the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I would believe that Logic compensate the audio delay accordingly. Perhaps exporting from PT in audio then import that into Logic as audio, and then convert it to MIDI inside Logic, if needed. Since those are percussion, it should be relatively straight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I would believe that Logic compensate the audio delay accordingly.Perhaps exporting from PT in audio then import that into Logic as audio, and then convert it to MIDI inside Logic, if needed. Since those are percussion, it should be relatively straight forward. But the converted MIDi will again be "quantized" to the tick resolution 960 in Logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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