Prevent Logic from Creating an Aux Track after a send??

[MattLeschuck]

LONG time Pro Tools user here (use it 5 days a week for work). I have also used Reason exclusively for midi since version 3. I have owned Logic 9 and now X from the start and have dabbled in it from time to time, so i feel fairly comfortable moving around it. Now with the Reason Rack available i want to start producing personal stuff more in Logic as it kind of blends the 2 environments of PT and Reason. There are a lot of little quirks i find (for me at least) in Logic after being so comfy in Pro Tools. Not being able to copy sends from track to track is one. Not being able to put the Stereo Output track at the top of the arrangement view is strange. This may be frivolous to some but it's engrained in my workflow. Now the one that is really getting me is the creation of an AUX track after using a send. It honestly confused me for a few minutes as i didn't know what was going on haha. Side chaining the kick to a compressor on a pad and all of a sudden my kick is twice as loud. Pro Tools and Reason don't do this, hence my confusion. Anyways, with side chaining i have zero use for the Aux track and its just another step to have to go and delete it immediately after. Its interesting that when you do this the AUX track defaults to 0db.. But when you create an AUX track manually it defaults to no volume. Anyways, is there a way to turn this off from happening? I use a lot of side chaining so i hope there is .

 

Any info is appreciated and im sure ill have a ton of more questions going forward! Thanks everyone

[triplets]

No, it's part of Logic's design.

I like the fact that Logic creates the aux for me. Different designs, different workflows, which is good. Otherwise if every DAW does what the other one does, what's the point of having them.

 

You can always request a feature that you think is beneficial:

 

https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html

[MattLeschuck]

No, it's part of Logic's design.

I like the fact that Logic creates the aux for me. Different designs, different workflows, which is good. Otherwise if every DAW does what the other one does, what's the point of having them.

 

You can always request a feature that you think is beneficial:

 

https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html

 

Thanks for the confirmation. However, a simple option to have it on / off would be beneficial to some. While it's convenient for you, it's inconvenient for me and my workflow.

[Dewdman42]

Not being able to copy sends from track to track is one.

 

Yea I agree. Post your feature request to apple please: https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html

 

Not being able to put the Stereo Output track at the top of the arrangement view is strange.

 

Sure. See above.

 

Now the one that is really getting me is the creation of an AUX track after using a send. It honestly confused me for a few minutes as i didn't know what was going on haha. Side chaining the kick to a compressor on a pad and all of a sudden my kick is twice as loud. Pro Tools and Reason don't do this, hence my confusion. Anyways, with side chaining i have zero use for the Aux track and its just another step to have to go and delete it immediately after. Its interesting that when you do this the AUX track defaults to 0db.. But when you create an AUX track manually it defaults to no volume. Anyways, is there a way to turn this off from happening? I use a lot of side chaining so i hope there is .

 

As above, hit the feature request form to get Apple's attention.

 

so the history of Logic is that in the past you used to have to create all these kinds of related things in the environment. Somewhere along the line they brought things more out of the environment so that when you do certain kinds of things in the mixer or arrange page, objects will automatically be created in the environment in some way that makes sense. Its not always the way everyone wants it to happen, but anyway that's what they were doing.

 

So a send involves an internal BUS object. They are named Bus 1, Bus 2, etc..

 

It may also, in the more common case, need an AUX channelstrip object that uses that internal BUS object as its source. So that's why Apple did it that way, when you create a send, you choose which BUS object you want... and if that BUS object is not already setup with an associated AUX channelstip object, then LogicPro will assume you need one and create it. That is the more common case, so it does save most people both the time as well as they don't have to understand the complexity of how different internal environment objects are wired together to create that common case situation.

 

what you are needing is to create the send and assign it to a new BUS internal object, without creating any channel strip objects automatically to go along with it. Fair enough. I can't think of any way to do that, certainly it will not be any less work then just deleing the AUX channel after the fact. Might be nice if they had additional options to choose an available unused Bus object while not creating any channel to send it to, but unfortunately Apple does not provide that right now. If you choose an internal bus object that has not been already assigned to something, then Apple will assign it to a new AUX channel.

 

Work Around

 

As a workaround you could potentially create a starting template that has a few bus channel strips created ahead of time in the environment with a few of the internal bus objects so that they are assigned to something.

 

Let's say you want to reserve the first four bus objects as side chain handlers. First let's name them a little better...

 

You can improve the labeling of those from the Mix menu: Mix->I/O Labels. One downside (or upside depending on how you look at it) is that this is saved globally, its not a project-specific setting).

 

 

Those bus objects are still not assigned to anything. We want to prevent apple from automatically creating AUX channels, so we can go into the environment and manually create 4 bus channel strip objects, and they will automatically get Bus 1, Bus 2, Bus 3 and Bus 4, assigned to them.

 

 

(as a sidenote, if you don't want your side chain bus objects at the top of the list, you can select each of those bus channel objects in the environment and manually set them to any series of Bus objects you want, like Bus 33, Bus 34, Bus 35, Bus 36, for example. You have to edit the I/O labels dialog to assign the custom names to 33, 34, 35 and 36 also.)

 

Now if you look at the Mixer, you will see that new BUS channels are appearing. And you probably don't need them. Worse yet, they are by default configured to send their output to the stereo bus, which you don't want in this case. So first go into the Mixer, and set the output of each of those channel strips to "No Output".

 

 

You probably aren't going to want to look at these bus channels in the mixer anymore and probably want to make sure you don't accidentally change their faders too, so you can hide them:

 

 

Alright, save the above as a starter template....and start with that.

 

Now in a new project, go to the channel strip where you want to add a send, and choose one of those pre-assigned bus objects... The send will get created, through that hidden bus channel and no AUX will get created.

 

[David Nahmani]

Note that if a destination already exists for the Bus (such as an Aux or an Audio track with that bus selected as an input) then Logic will not create an Aux. So in some situations it may be useful to first create the destination, then create the send, so that Logic doesn't create the Aux for you.

[Dewdman42]

right...as in this example... assign the bus to the the side chain somewhere first before creating the send

[David Nahmani]

right...as in this example... assign the bus to the the side chain somewhere first before creating the send

Unfortunately it doesn't work for side chains.

[Dewdman42]

although when I try to do that, the list of Bus objects is not dsiplayed in the side chain input area...

 

 

so what I said in previous post won't work..

 

you could temporarily assign Bus 1, for example as the input to some temporary audio track, then create the send, then delete the audio track. But that is just as many steps or more than just creating a new send (with a new aux channel created) and then promptly delete the AUX channel.

[MattLeschuck]

Thanks for the suggestions Dewdman42. My original concern with the automatic AUX's being created wasn't a request, but rather if there was an option to turn this off in Logic. Now that i know it's not, I'll do what you guys suggested and submit it as a feature request to apple. I was also thinking the same thing about creating a template and having side chain busses already setup in environment. Note* It seems to work with doing that then hiding the busses. A work around for now.

[Dewdman42]

one little advantage of the side chain busses is that you will actually have the option to unhide the bus channel strips and adjust the levels of the bus from that fader, rather then having to adjust all the sends to it.

[MattLeschuck]

although when I try to do that, the list of Bus objects is not dsiplayed in the side chain input area...

 

sidechain2.jpg

 

so what I said in previous post won't work..

 

you could temporarily assign Bus 1, for example as the input to some temporary audio track, then create the send, then delete the audio track. But that is just as many steps or more than just creating a new send (with a new aux channel created) and then promptly delete the AUX channel.

 

The side chain list shows for me. So by creating a bus in environment, assigning it to bus 32 for example (and renaming it on the left to Bus 32 for less confusion), and selecting no output, the bus track is now automatically hidden with no output bearing in on the mix when i create a send to the comp on bus 32. I can live with this as a work around

[David Nahmani]

although when I try to do that, the list of Bus objects is not dsiplayed in the side chain input area...

 

sidechain2.jpg

 

so what I said in previous post won't work..

No it does not work, even if you make the bus appear in the side chain input pop-up menu by assigning a send to the bus first, choosing it from a side chain input then unassign the bus send and delete the corresponding Aux, when you reassign a send to that bus that is now selected in a side chain input menu, an Aux is created again.

[MattLeschuck]

For me I believe I found a work around by creating a template with multiple hidden busses in Environment (28-32 for example). I just hide the "Bus" tab in the mix window with no output selected on all of them. This allows me to have dedicated busses for side chaining and it does not created another AUX when I set the input to one of these side chain busses and send to it.

[Dewdman42]

No it does not work, even if you make the bus appear in the side chain input pop-up menu by assigning a send to the bus first, choosing it from a side chain input then unassign the bus send and delete the corresponding Aux, when you reassign a send to that bus that is now selected in a side chain input menu, an Aux is created again.

 

I'm not following you exactly, or we're missing each other somehow.. I just did the following:

 

1. Create instrument track
   
2. Create another instrument track to use side-chained plugin (stutter Edit)
   
3. On first instrument track, create a send to Bus 1 (which is not assigned anywhere yet)
   
4. Select the AUX channel that was created automatically and press the DELETE key
   
5. dialog box asks me if I want to delete it, I choose "Delete Anyway"
   
6. Open stutter Edit and I can see Bus 1 there on that Sidechain input.

 

 

So I guess the above should work ok. I'm not sure why it still shows up there as available side chain bus after I delete the AUX channel, but anyway, it seemed to work for me.

 

and using the bus channel trick also seems to show up as side chain source.

[David Nahmani]

I'm not following you exactly

I'm answering the original question: is it possible to select a bus in a send slot on a channel strip without having Logic automatically creating a new Aux (with its input set to that bus) in the Mixer? My answer:

 

Yes, if you've already selected that bus in the input slot of an Audio or Aux channel strip (the OP pointed out it is also possible with a Bus channel strip). In that case, choosing that bus in a send or output slot of a channel strip will not create a new Aux channel strip in the Mixer, because a destination already exists for that Bus.

 

Otherwise, no, even if you've already selected that bus in the external side chain input pop-up menu of a plug-in. In that case, choosing that bus in a send or output slot of a channel strip will still create a new Aux channel strip in the Mixer (even though another destination — the external side chain input of the plug-in — already exists for that bus).

 

[Dewdman42]

ok but you kept responding to my posts with "no", and I don't understand why.

[David Nahmani]

I stated that what the OP is asking doesn't work even if the bus is already selected in the side chain input of a plug-in. In that post (viewtopic.php?f=1&p=796810#p796771) I understood you were saying that it did prevent Logic from creating an Aux to select a bus in the side chain input of a plug-in before you create the send? So I wanted to stress out that no, it does not prevent Logic from creating an Aux (as you can see in my animation).

[Dewdman42]

I said that once and immediately said in my next post its not possible just as you did. Everything else I have suggested here is unrelated to that

[David Nahmani]

Great, then we agree!

[Dewdman42]

well sort of, I still think the best approach is to create bus channels in the enviornment and or just create the send and delete the aux. Either way will work. if you happen to have a spare audio channel you can temporarily change to bus input in order to be able to assign the bus to the side chain (your suggestion I think?), then great, but that seems more work to me then just creating the send and deleting the aux channel, which worked perfectly for me when I tried it.

[David Nahmani]

well sort of, I still think the best approach is to create bus channels in the enviornment and or just create the send and delete the aux. Either way will work.

They work however they require an extra step that should not be necessary. I agree with the OP on that. Opening the MIDI Environment to create a bus channel strip you don't need and keeping it hidden from your Mixer because you don't need it makes little sense. As for just creating the send and delete the Aux, there are two problems with that: 1. You have to delete the Aux, 2. You're going to have to delete that same Aux that Logic will keep recreating automatically every time you choose to send another track to the same bus.

 

So yes the most elegant way to deal with this is to create Bus channel strips in the environment as Matt suggested, but I do wish this was handled more elegantly by Logic. If it's capable to detect that the bus is already routed to an audio track, a bus or an aux channel strip, then surely it should be able to also detect that the bus is already routed to a plug-in's external side chain input and behave the same way in that case, and not create an unnecessary Aux as Matt described in his OP.

[Dewdman42]

It was actually my suggestion to create the bus channel in the environment.

 

That works in so much that you can save it as a template then never worry about it again.

[Dewdman42]

But I also don't find it particularly that annoying to delete the aux channel after creating the send. Not a big deal.

 

but you're right that every time you try to create a send again reusing that same Bus...would again recreate the AUX...which is definitely slightly annoying..hehe.

[David Nahmani]

It was actually my suggestion to create the bus channel in the environment.

Indeed it was! Sorry I initially thought Matt was the first to have suggested it.

 

That works in so much that you can save it as a template then never worry about it again.

Agreed.

[Dewdman42]

So summary, three work arounds, unless i'm missing something:

 

1. Just delete the AUX channel and stop complaining
    
   
2. Create bus channels in the environment ahead of time, save as template
    
   
3. temporarily use some other audio channel to assign the bus # as the input to it, so that it will be available to assign to the side chain.

[David Nahmani]

Well, I can think of a fourth workaround:

 

4. Just delete the Aux and keep complaining.

 

[Dewdman42]

hehe

[MattLeschuck]

Dewdman42's original solution of building a template ahead of time with already assigned busses in the environment was a good suggestion that i'm using. That and just hiding the "bus" selection in the mixer view.. whats nice about this is that the bus and aux views are separate. So AUXs i'm actually using i can still see, where as side chain busses are hidden with no added effect (volume in this case) from the send audio. From my experience, if add the same send to other tracks, i don't get any additional AUX tracks being created, only the original one that was hidden is there. Sounds like you guys are?

 

Note: this post was meant to posted hours ago but the hole double submit on this forum before it posts has thrown me off a few times haha

Edited September 30, 2020 by MattLeschuck

[Dewdman42]

My guess is that Logic Pro needs to see that the bus is assigned to a channel strip. I bet if you delete the bus channel and then try to assign that bus again it will create an aux channel. But as long as the bus channel assignment is there, then it doesn’t need to create an aux

 

The way I see the it, the create send function should show different kind of bussed sends to choose from rather then assume you always want as an aux. but anyway

[MattLeschuck]

My guess is that Logic Pro needs to see that the bus is assigned to a channel strip. I bet if you delete the bus channel and then try to assign that bus again it will create an aux channel. But as long as the bus channel assignment is there, then it doesn’t need to create an aux

 

The way I see the it, the create send function should show different kind of bussed sends to choose from rather then assume you always want as an aux. but anyway

 

And this is exactly why i created this thread. I was hoping Logic acknowledged it somewhere .

 

Thanks again for the work around. As a template it will work fine.