Have a Smart Control maintains Relative Values across its Mappings when knob is turned

[JoshJ]

I want to create a Smart Control to turn the drive setting up and down on my saturation plugin across all my channels. But if I edit one of those drive settings within one of the plugins individually, and then alter my Smart Control after, have those drive settings remain relative to one another and not change to the same value. Is there a way to do this? If so, is there a way to have the relative values apply multiple SC mapping at once, or by default whenever I create a new mapping?

EG;

I use my Smart Control to change the Drive on track 1, 2 and 3 to setting 5.

>then I reduce track 3's drive param to setting 2

>Then I use my Smart Control to reduce ALL drive params by 1. 

>I want track 3 to reduce to drive setting 1 and the other tracks to reduce to drive setting 4. 

... at the moment my SC overrides the differences between all parameters and just sets them to the same setting. 

 

Also, do Smart Controls only work for editing plugins on channels within the same Track Stack? How does this work within the new embedded track track stacks. Can I use SC's to control my "Snare bus" Stack channels (Snr 1, 2, etc) within my "Drum bus" Stack?

 

Sorry for the long windedness..

[Atlas007]

A Smart Control can be assigned to map many parameters simultaneously. Each mapping can be set to a discrete range and scaling.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Atlas007

[JoshJ]

Thanks. I’m not sure this answers the questions though. It’s not a questions of the Range settings. I want my parameters to maintain their relative values when the macro knob is moved. Similar to Logics Relative Gain feature. Does this make sense?

[polanoid]

4 hours ago, joshj said:

Does this make sense?

Makes sense, but isn't possible AFAIK. I also wonder how you'd expect this to work. E.g., what should Logic do when one of your "relatively controlled" parameters hits its low or high limit, but the user turns the smart control further down/up? The controlled parameters would then lose their relative difference as well.

Edited November 26, 2022 by polanoid

[JoshJ]

The Smart Control knob would stop in its tracks once a high/low limit is reached in one of the plugins. Wouldn’t make that much of a difference for my intended use case with saturation plugs across all channels - as the differences between each Drive parameter are usually quite subtle. 

Are there any workarounds would might recommend for this? Is it possible to unlink a plugin param from a Smart Control from the Plugin window itself for quick workflow? Or would I have to go into the Smart Control list and delete it. Any way of deactivating the mapping rather than deleting it completely? 

[Atlas007]

Control the parameter directly from the plugin GUI…

[Atlas007]

9 hours ago, joshj said:

Thanks. I’m not sure this answers the questions though. It’s not a questions of the Range settings. I want my parameters to maintain their relative values when the macro knob is moved. Similar to Logics Relative Gain feature. Does this make sense?

If using a MIDI controller, I wonder if modifying the mode in the controller assignment window… could do the trick?

[JoshJ]

13 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

Control the parameter directly from the plugin GUI…

Yes but if I do that, then edit my Smart Control after that, the edit I made to that plugin parameter will be overridden and will not keep it relation to the other mappings the SC. It will just move to the same value as all the other parameters on that SC. Thats kind of the point of my OP..

[JoshJ]

13 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

If using a MIDI controller, I wonder if modifying the mode in the controller assignment window… could do the trick?

Thanks but I'm not sure how this would affect the relatively maintenance between the parameters mapped to the SC? Are you saying to bypass Smart Controls and use Controller Assignments to map multiple parameters (across multiple channel strips) to one Controller knob? I wasn't aware I could do this is Controller Assignments. How is it done?

[Atlas007]

1 hour ago, joshj said:

How is it done

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/ctls71c3162b/10.7.5/mac/12.3

[JoshJ]

I have some feedback on this after testing more extensively;

(In the example of using one Smart Control knob to control the same parameter on 2 plugins, across 2 separate channels..)

 

• If the mapped plugin parameters are set to different values before the Smart Control mapping in Learned;

...the relative difference between those plugin parameter values are maintained.

After the mapping is made, moving the SC knob will maintain the relative difference between those two values, regardless of what those values are changed to within the plugin windows.

 

• If those 2 parameters are set to different values after the SC mappings are created;

...moving the Smart Control knob resets those 2 parameters to the same value. (relatively is not maintained between those 2 parameter values)

 

------------

------------

A side note discovered during testing;

In the context of Logics new nested Track Stacks features ("Sub"Track Stacks); 

Smart Controls on a Track Stack channel can only map to plugins on tracks nested directly within that Track Stack - not on Sub-Track Stacks nested within the Parent Track Stack, nor the channels within those Sub-Track Stacks. 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by joshj

[JoshJ]

6 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/ctls71c3162b/10.7.5/mac/12.3

Thanks. Where does this explain how to map an Assignment to parameters across multiple plugins? I cant see it

[David Nahmani]

Note that you can also adjust the scaling of each mapping by clicking the Scaling : Open button at the bottom of the mapping area. You can then select one of the mapping and adjust its offset and even its curve if you wish: 

[David Nahmani]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:33 PM, polanoid said:

I also wonder how you'd expect this to work. E.g., what should Logic do when one of your "relatively controlled" parameters hits its low or high limit, but the user turns the smart control further down/up?

The parameters just stay at their high limit for the remaining range of the knob. Smart Controls are actually very flexible, you can even make them go back down in a certain range of the Smart Control knob, etc:

[Atlas007]

I wonder if Pickup Mode has some effect here?

[JoshJ]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:05 AM, David Nahmani said:

Note that you can also adjust the scaling of each mapping by clicking the Scaling : Open button at the bottom of the mapping area. You can then select one of the mapping and adjust its offset and even its curve if you wish: 

 

Thanks David. 

I’m a bit confused. Now I'm getting unwanted differences between the 2 parameter values. Have attached a link to a video. Sorry I was unable to get the max file size for to 2mb to upload it here (tried GIF and still not poss) (what GIF screencast software are you using out of interest?)  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fT-_3d0o4A_9rm1aYl-TQIv82mYVsyPe/view?usp=sharing

I map a SC on a Track Stack to two separate plugins on 2 sub-tracks. If I then edit one of those plugin parameters directly from within the plugin interface, they are maintaining some relatively between them, but not the difference I applied. Has this got something to do with the Curves you mentioned? However I have not altered the Scaling of either  of these mapping at all so I presume they are exactly the same at the default Scaling setting. 

How can I get the relative difference to stay exactly the same as how it was when I set it manually within the plugin window?

EG, if I manually change the parameters to have a difference of 4 values between them, then I turn the SC knob, I want both those plugin parameters to always maintain a 4 value difference between them. So when I turn my SC all the relative values across the plugins is maintained (similar to Relative Gain).

At the moment when I set it up there always seems to be a difference of about 1 value between the 2 parameters (same plugins and parameter being used on both channel).

 

 

 

 

 

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, joshj said:

(what GIF screencast software are you using out of interest?)  

I'm using LiceCap: https://www.cockos.com/licecap/

First, on your video, note that the instant you click a parameter in the 2nd plug-in window, that parameter is assigned and its value at the instant you click it taken into account for the scaling. The fact that you continue dragging that value from 0 to 2 doesn't change anything.

At any point in time you can open the scaling of a mapping to see and edit exactly how that specific parameter mapping is scaling. 

If you don't want to use the scaling pop-up window but want to map parameters with different offsets then: 

1. Set the desired offsets in the plug-in windows (for example Drive = 0 dB in plug-in #1 and Drive = 6 dB in plug-in #2). 
2. Map the desired SC to both Drive parameters by clicking the parameter value (don't drag the parameter value to change it).

[JoshJ]

4 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

map parameters with different offsets then:

Thanks for explaining.

Re the scaling, I don’t actually want to map parameters with different scaling offsets. I want to be able to use the SC to turn up/down all of my Exciters Drive params at the same time, but then if i edit one of those parameter to a different value via the plugin window, and then turn my Smart Control knob after that, have all my parameters (on the other plugins) move relative to that differing value, and not have that new value reset to the values of all the other linked parameter. Does this make sense? I’m not sure how the Scaling function will help me achieve that?

[David Nahmani]

1 hour ago, joshj said:

I want to be able to use the SC to turn up/down all of my Exciters Drive params at the same time, but then if i edit one of those parameter to a different value via the plugin window, and then turn my Smart Control knob after that, have all my parameters (on the other plugins) move relative to that differing value, and not have that new value reset to the values of all the other linked parameter. Does this make sense? I’m not sure how the Scaling function will help me achieve that?

You would have to either move the knob then re-map the knobs by clicking them in the new positions, or use the Scaling functions to adjust the offset you want accordingly to what you want by raising the dots at the bottom left and top right, like this (I have a single SC mapped to two parameters, the shaded one stays full range while I move the highlighted one 3 dB up so that it ends up with a 3 dB offset compared to the first one). 

[JoshJ]

Ok thanks. Will have to take a deeper look at these Scaling functions. Still new to me.
As a workaround, is there a way to disconnect the Smart Control form it’s mapping without deleting the mapping? So that if I make an edit to a plugin, I don’t forget and then move the Smart Control again which will erase that edit i made?

[David Nahmani]

Just now, joshj said:

Will have to take a deeper look at these Scaling functions. Still new to me.

Not sure if you own my book but in it is a lesson called "Mapping Smart Controls to Plug-ins" on page 302 that explains how to use the scaling window. The example I show is how to turn down the volume on the channel strip while raising the gain on a distortion in order to compensate for the level increase and keep the loudness consistent. 

4 minutes ago, joshj said:

As a workaround, is there a way to disconnect the Smart Control form it’s mapping without deleting the mapping? So that if I make an edit to a plugin, I don’t forget and then move the Smart Control again which will erase that edit i made?

I see... some kind of way to bypass or turn off the mapping? No, there's no such thing. You have to actually cut (and lose) the mapping. 

[Atlas007]

On 11/29/2022 at 7:05 PM, joshj said:

As a workaround, is there a way to disconnect the Smart Control form it’s mapping without deleting the mapping? So that if I make an edit to a plugin, I don’t forget and then move the Smart Control again which will erase that edit i made?

I wonder if using the Bypass All Control Surfaces command could do the trick?

Quote

 

To temporarily disable your control surfaces

• Choose Logic Pro > Preferences > Control Surfaces > Bypass all Control Surfaces.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Atlas007

[David Nahmani]

10 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

I wonder if using the Bypass All Control Surfaces command could do the trick?

No, Bypass All Control Surfaces affects controller assignments, but not Smart Control mappings.

[Atlas007]

Just now, David Nahmani said:

No, Bypass All Control Surfaces affects controller assignments, but not Smart Control mappings.

I was in the impression that Smart Controls were part of the Controller Assignments… I’ll check/test that again when I get to the studio…

[David Nahmani]

3 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

I was in the impression that Smart Controls were part of the Controller Assignments… I’ll check/test that again when I get to the studio…

In the Smart Control inspector inspector you'll find:

1. The Mapping area (which maps a SC to a plug-in or channel strip parameter): that's not tied to the controller assignments. 
2. The External Assignment area: that's the controller assignments.