PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Hello, I'm working on an animated short film with about 40 tracks. Sometimes I need to shift the dialogue, so I always use region automation. A particular issue is fading in or fading out of a region to soften the sound of breaths before speaking. Repeatedly, after automating the region for an in or out fade, it will playback with no change in audio. I have noticed that sometimes, if I move the fade to later (so it's clearly over the talking), it will then play back a normal in fade and take out the breath and play the audio. I've also tried to play around with using track automation to solve this as a workaround, and that's great until I have to nudge something. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 When satisfied with a fade in/out on a region, how about bouncing-in-place it right away (instead of piling them out which taxes your CPU resource)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I see you're using Logic Pro 10.4.8? I can't remember when exactly fades were updated in Logic Pro, but there was a time when they were actually recorded as audio files in the background, so any change in the fade meant Logic had to rewrite the fade audio file, which wasn't reliable or real time. Now the fades are real time and reliable in my experience. As for automation, if you want to move it along with the region you can choose to do that in your preferences: Logic Pro > Preferences > General > Editing: ... or better yet use "Region" automation, which means the automation will be contained inside the region and always move along with it, no matter what preferences you've set: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 @Atlas007 I do bounce in place when satisfied now, but that does not explain the myriad of glitches. Often when satisfied, I've muted a part that clearly has talking, but it only removes the awkward breath I've been trying to get rid of that leads up to the talking. I've never encountered any notices about my CPU being overtaxed (like I have when running a large number of MIDI files). So I wouldn't think that would be an issue, but maybe I'm wrong?@David Nahmani First, I'm on Logic 10.7.7 now. (I just tried to update that after your comment, but can't find where I listed it on my profile). I believe I am using region automation (see the photo). In the first region, where the region is muted but there is still clearly audio, I'm hearing the narration continue (after an extremely brief silence) even when the track is on mute. Other times, I will get loud pops from muted tracks that have been cut. Every send is set to post pan, so I can't figure out why I'm hearing audio in clearly muted regions. On some tracks, playback isn't consistent, making popping sounds sometimes but playing back fine others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Yes, that's region automation. Could you share a project with me that exhibits that issue? With dropbox or wetransfer? I'll send you a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Done, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I received your file. I tried playing a few of the regions in solo and the automation played as expected. Can you give me instructions to reproduce? Which track, which region, at what bar number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 @David Nahmani interesting. It doesn't stay consistent, but in bar 56 on track 34 (recorded on the file attached) when it ends there is audio, even though it is muted. Ferdinand The Humble Region Issues.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) How about publicly posting an example project? 😉 Edited February 10, 2023 by polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 21 hours ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: in bar 56 on track 34 (recorded on the file attached) when it ends there is audio I don't hear any audio there. Did you solo the track to make sure the audio isn't coming from somewhere else in the project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 hours ago, David Nahmani said: I don't hear any audio there. Did you solo the track to make sure the audio isn't coming from somewhere else in the project? Hello, Yes, I've attached a recorded soloed track. If you cannot recreate the issue, perhaps we're looking at an operating system-specific glitch? I'm running Monterey 12.6.@polanoid, happy to share the project, but it is quite large (1 GB as a zip). If you direct me how to share it in the forum (there's a size upload limit), I'll post it ASAP. Ferdinand The Humble Region Issues Solo.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: Yes, I've attached a recorded soloed track. Do you see the level going up at that point on that track's channel strip meters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: happy to share the project, but it is quite large (1 GB as a zip). If you direct me how to share it in the forum (there's a size upload limit), I'll post it ASAP. What I usually do is make a cooy of the project, strip it down so that only the part that shows the problem remains. Then delete all unused audio files from it and clean up unused files. I’m pretty sure it will be way smaller than 1 GB then. This approach often already helps to narrow down the cause of the problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 hours ago, David Nahmani said: Do you see the level going up at that point on that track's channel strip meters? Yes, it goes up.@polanoid I'll do that after work this evening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 hours ago, polanoid said: What I usually do is make a cooy of the project, strip it down so that only the part that shows the problem remains. Then delete all unused audio files from it and clean up unused files. I’m pretty sure it will be way smaller than 1 GB then. This approach often already helps to narrow down the cause of the problem. FYI, after doing that the overall file is still 29mb. The audio file in question is a 32mb wav file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: FYI, after doing that the overall file is still 29mb. The audio file in question is a 32mb wav file. Dropbox, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 20 hours ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: Yes, it goes up. It's the exact file you've shared with me? Cause I can't reproduce this at all here. If you can, share a screenshot or screen capture (use LiceCap) of the main window with the track selected, the volume automation all the way down, the fader all the way down, and the level meter displaying a signal on the Narrator channel strip? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) @David Nahmani it should be. I'll send the file again just in case. I've got two views here w/ LiceCap. The fader goes up at the moment of sound despite being clearly automated to stay at 0. The track is soloed. I was a little sloppy labeling, but Town Ambience (track label) is the correct track for the region in the picture. Edited February 11, 2023 by PJRasmussenJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Can you check if this setting (Project Settings -> General) is on (and turn it off if it is and see if it changes anything)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Also you have track automation conflicting with the region automation, which may be the cause of the issue here? The track automation starts ramping up before the end of the region. In the project you gave me, "Region automation takes priority over track automation" is selected under File > Project Settings > General, which should normally make sure there's no issue. I also noticed that the example you asked to check out is not the same as the one you're displaying in your screenshot, it would be better if we can all focus on the same single, specific example, in order to troubleshoot this efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 @polanoidit is not selected.@David Nahmani, I did notice the issue started when I started applying region automation, so the track automation may have something to do with it. I'm going to copy the file and delete all track automation and see what happens. It only happens on regions I've had to cut and move. Re: different example, in the email I mention bar 56 at 1:51? This is the same spot, though the track number is different because I've kept working on other parts of the project and had to reorganize the tracks. I've resent the exact file to you to eliminate confusion. Sorry about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: I'm going to copy the file and delete all track automation and see what happens. Good test. Let us know what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 13, 2023 Author Solution Share Posted February 13, 2023 Good news! Deleting the visible track volume automation solved this instance. I'm going to test this on other areas this evening, but I think we've solved it. File it under successful workaround! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 Hello, Confirming that deleting visible track volume automation solved this issue. It should be noted that if you are trying to delete more than one parameter at a time, I did not have success. But this can be solved (I suspect), but rotating through the parameters and deleting each in turn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 minute ago, PJRasmussenJazz said: Confirming that deleting visible track volume automation solved this issue. It should be noted that if you are trying to delete more than one parameter at a time, I did not have success. But this can be solved (I suspect), but rotating through the parameters and deleting each in turn. Good to hear, thank you for letting us know! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: delete more than one parameter at a time If you are showing more than parameter at a time, using sub lanes like this the global "Mix -> Delete Automation -> Delete Visible Automation on selected track" will delete automation data for all (in case of my screenshot, three) visible track automation parameters at once (BTW this works for Region Automation as well, if you have set the track to show region automation instead of track automation). And option-clicking on the little ">" sign that adds an automation sub lane will add sub lanes for all automated parameters. Edited February 15, 2023 by polanoid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.a.billington Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 In the Project Settings -> General. there are two options that deal with how automation settings are prioritised in project. Try messing around with those and see if you can get the desired behaviour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJRasmussenJazz Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 10:36 AM, polanoid said: If you are showing more than parameter at a time, using sub lanes like this the global "Mix -> Delete Automation -> Delete Visible Automation on selected track" will delete automation data for all (in case of my screenshot, three) visible track automation parameters at once (BTW this works for Region Automation as well, if you have set the track to show region automation instead of track automation). And option-clicking on the little ">" sign that adds an automation sub lane will add sub lanes for all automated parameters. FYI, I'm aware of how to display multiple automation settings, however, even when multiple are displayed, only the one in the place of volume on your screenshot gets deleted. Part of the low level bug I suppose. It's an easy workaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) On 2/21/2023 at 5:08 PM, PJRasmussenJazz said: FYI, I'm aware of how to display multiple automation settings, however, even when multiple are displayed, only the one in the place of volume on your screenshot gets deleted. That's not true. As I wrote, in my screenshot all three will be deleted (I did try this before writing, you know). Video attached. Edited February 23, 2023 by polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 5:08 PM, PJRasmussenJazz said: Part of the low level bug I suppose. What is the "low level bug"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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