New M2 Pro and M2 Max MacBook Pro + New M2 Mac mini

[conanthewarrior]

Well I managed 8 months- thats when I bought my M1 pro MBP before M2 Pro came out. 
I am very happy with the performance of the M1 pro and hope it will last a good few more years before I need to upgrade, but I am glad for people on the market for a new MBP they will get a nice performance increase. 
EDIT: I hope where I went for the binned version with just 8 cores it will update far into the future and not be forced into upgrading before necessary. I think where the M1 is already so powerful there shouldn't be any issues for a while. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by conanthewarrior

[mrgeeze]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

Looks like you've already made up your mind... 😉

Fair enough des99 (assuming your comment was directed at me).  You may be correct.  I don't see the macbook gives me anything more than portability for short trips. I'm aging and don't really care to use the lappie monitor at all. If I stay somewhere for more than a week i'll find/buy a keyboard/mouse/monitor.

I purchased the very first mini apple made. I loved that machine. Its great to see them amp it up here

Am I missing something here besides portability?

[kerochan]

IMHO.   My Mac Mini M1 16b RAM, 1TB is incredible, its silent too, both Logic & Pro Tools are running great, on Monterey.

Of course I am tempted to go for a high spec Mac Mini M2 Pro,  but stability is paramount, so I think its best wait and see what the reviews are like. 

Theres always a faster more powerful computer around the corner. I do want the M2Pro Mac Mini though!  However, I am gonna wait, see how things pan out with the cooling system/ fan etc etc and Ventura.

It might be a few months, even then it may best to stay put, after all, the Mac Mini M1 is the the best computer I have owned...

I would say to those of you, like myself, who want the new Mac Mini and already have a stable system...

...Patience!     

 

 

 

[analogika]

On 1/18/2023 at 11:21 AM, zipb said:

These are too expensive. Any current Mac with at least 32 GB RAM and a reasonable sized SSD is way above my budget.

My top-of-the-line MacBook Pro 2011 was 1800 eu. Now a comparable model is twice the price.

Are you sure? 
 

The top-tier 2011 15“ MBP had a starting price before upgrades of 2149€. The 17“ started at 2499€. 
 

i just configured a 2011 15“ via the Internet wayback machine 

https://web.archive.org/web/20110227023545/http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC723LL/A?mco=MjEyOTY4OTQ

 

with a 2.3 GHz CPU (+$250), 8 GB RAM (+$200) and a 512 GB SSD instead of a 750 GB HD (+$1100), the top-of-the-line 15“ MBP was $3700 in 2011 dollars. 

[analogika]

On 1/18/2023 at 2:03 PM, David Nahmani said:

This has always been the case on the Apple Store. Back in the day, one could always buy less expensive aftermarket RAM and install it ourselves, but this process has become increasingly difficult and finally just impossible with Apple Silicon's integrated memory. 

RAM has been soldered down on all the laptops they’ve introduced since 2012, FWIW. 

Desktops‘ RAM was upgradeable until Apple Silicon. 

[des99]

The 2008-2011 period in Apple Laptops was particularly cheap though, based on a variety of industry factors.

In about 2006, I bought my first Mac 15" Powerbook, a low mid model of the "Pro" laptop range, which was already rather underpowered compared to PC desktops. It was around £2000.

When I replaced that a few years later (and the next one after that too in about 2011), the "Pro" laptops had fallen to a starting price of around £1200 - *significantly* cheaper. My 2008 and 2011 MBP's were both similarly priced - and were one of the reasons I could scrape to getting them. (The 2011 replaced my 2008 one that had an unfortunate accident.)

From there it crept up again until 2015 or so, at which point the starting prices of the Pro range were back up to £1800 or so - which then jumped significantly upwards where the redesigned MBP's with touchbar were released, pushing the starting prices of the Pro range up into the £2500 range, where it's sat ever since.

In all cases, I'm talking about the low end of the 15/16 "Pro" laptop range, not the spec-bumped upper end models.

I'm sure there are pricing trend graphs out there somewhere... But yes, that 2008-2012 period was a brief period of time when 15" Mac Pro notebooks were surprisingly attractively priced, compared to the before and after times.

[David MacNeill]

I just ordered mine. Glad I waited, as I almost bought a Mac Studio when they were announced. My writing/recording partner is buying my Mini M1 so it's all good.
 

[David Nahmani]

12 hours ago, David MacNeill said:

I just ordered mine.

Congrats!! You should be quite happy with that little beast. 🙂 

[conanthewarrior]

18 hours ago, kerochan said:

IMHO.   My Mac Mini M1 16b RAM, 1TB is incredible, its silent too, both Logic & Pro Tools are running great, on Monterey.

Of course I am tempted to go for a high spec Mac Mini M2 Pro,  but stability is paramount, so I think its best wait and see what the reviews are like. 

Theres always a faster more powerful computer around the corner. I do want the M2Pro Mac Mini though!  However, I am gonna wait, see how things pan out with the cooling system/ fan etc etc and Ventura.

It might be a few months, even then it may best to stay put, after all, the Mac Mini M1 is the the best computer I have owned...

I would say to those of you, like myself, who want the new Mac Mini and already have a stable system...

...Patience!     

I agree with this. I feel a bit bummed that the M2 Pro has came out as I have only had my M1 pro 14 base model for 8 months, but I have to remember this is the best computer I have ever owned and is still lightning fast. 

I think everyone feels a little pang of envy (if thats the right word) when their new machine has an upgraded model come out. 

We have to remember though how good what we have already is- it runs logic perfectly well, I have never had a system overload message and I produce mainly synth heavy EDM. The only time I have managed to push the system was using the logic benchmark test, I would be able to get the full 128 tracks and more, I manage 139 tracks before I get the system overload message. 
So this means I needn't worry when it comes to logics performance, the main thing I bought the MBP for, and hope to get many more years from the M1 Pro. 

I just worry where it is the binned version with 8 cores it won't be supported for as long as the unbinned 10 core version. 

[analogika]

18 minutes ago, conanthewarrior said:

I agree with this. I feel a bit bummed that the M2 Pro has came out as I have only had my M1 pro 14 base model for 8 months, but I have to remember this is the best computer I have ever owned and is still lightning fast. 

I think everyone feels a little pang of envy (if thats the right word) when their new machine has an upgraded model come out. 

 

You've already had it for eight months…! 😁 

Barring radical changes like the last intel machines to the M1, or the introduction of a new form factor, my impression is generally that Apple never make new products super-enticing to owners of the immediately preceding generation. 

I usually give the new product a once-over and invariably find the relevant differences to be minor. 

(In the case of iPhone 14, the missing "mini" model is actually a huge detriment over what I consider to be the perfect phone size.)

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by analogika

[conanthewarrior]

30 minutes ago, analogika said:

You've already had it for eight months…! 😁 

Barring radical changes like the last intel machines to the M1, or the introduction of a new form factor, my impression is generally that Apple never make new products super-enticing to owners of the immediately preceding generation. 

I usually give the new product a once-over and invariably find the relevant differences to be minor. 

(In the case of iPhone 14, the missing "mini" model is actually a huge detriment over what I consider to be the perfect phone size.)

lol I know, I'm not super bummed as I have had it for 8 months, its just buying a mac to me is a real luxury and my £1,899 was a massive amount of money to me (I am sick so only get benefits). 

I bought it with the intention of it lasting at least 5 years, hopefully even more. My last mac before this was a 2013 15 inch MBP. I had to get a new one after a logic board failure. 

I agree with you, the M2 isn't super enticing to me which is a good thing. If it was it would mean apple had done something so drastic it made my generation of computer near obsolete. Kind of like intel to M series, something like that would make me want to upgrade but not a new processor. 

If things continue at the rate they currently are I think I will upgrade when the M4 or later comes out. I will then sell my current MBP and use the money towards a brand new one. 

I like to use my machines to their death though, so if I can still run logic well and it works as a normal computer for me to browse the web with I will be happy until it dies. 

I haven't kept up with Iphone models, I didn't realise they made a mini model or got rid of it for the iphone 14. What size are the standard models and what size are the minis?

[analogika]

3 minutes ago, conanthewarrior said:

I haven't kept up with Iphone models, I didn't realise they made a mini model or got rid of it for the iphone 14. What size are the standard models and what size are the minis?

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-13

The 13 mini is the last of the normal-sized iPhones. With the 14, it's back to all dork-slabs, exclusively, now. 

I was so happy when they introduced the 12 mini. The XS I'd been using was way too big to be practical — both in terms of single-handed operation, and in terms of trouser pockets (I don't wear cargo pants). 

[Scriabin rocks]

Mmpf. My spanking newEuro 1628,- M1 Macmini 15 Gig 1 TB plus Logic arrived Dezember 15th.

32 Gig  with 1 TB and the M2 Pro 10 core costs 2478 Euro, that's 850 Euro more for 16 Gig plus the M2Pro and logic. 

Too much for me, but I wonder what you guys think about this.

The Mac mini M2 with 24 Gig and 1TB plus Logic goes for 1859 Euro, that is 231 Euro for the new M2 and 8 Gig more.

Sounds like a sweet spot at a glance for an upgrade to the M2, not?

 

 

 

[lookatthisguy]

Most of us talk about new hardware through the lens of recording and producing in Logic, but I’m thinking about the MainStage users right now—Broadway pit orchestras are going to have some stupidly. powerful. M2 Pros in their racks, and I can only imagine how the keyboard programmers will be able to leverage all of that…

[mrgeeze]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:56 PM, David MacNeill said:

I just ordered mine. Glad I waited, as I almost bought a Mac Studio when they were announced. My writing/recording partner is buying my Mini M1 so it's all good.
 

I see you purchased a 1TB unit. Do  you plan to use an external SSD also?  If yes, which one?

My storage needs over 1TB are entirely music - Sound Libraries (Native Instruments, Toontrack, PG Music BIAB Real Tracks).  

Is an external SSD adequate for such things?  I know external is slower but does it really matter in the world I'm living in. Sure would save a lot of $$$ as I'm looking at at 4TB drive.

Interested in comments.

[kerochan]

12 minutes ago, mrgeeze said:

I see you purchased a 1TB unit. Do  you plan to use an external SSD also?  If yes, which one?

My storage needs over 1TB are entirely music - Sound Libraries (Native Instruments, Toontrack, PG Music BIAB Real Tracks).  

Is an external SSD adequate for such things?  I know external is slower but does it really matter in the world I'm living in. Sure would save a lot of $$$ as I'm looking at at 4TB drive.

Interested in comments.

I also have a Mac Mini with 1TB storage,  music/recording is my profession and 1 TB is well enough, though I use external drives, Samsung t5 and t7

Edited January 22, 2023 by kerochan
spelling mistake

[des99]

Samsung T7 for me. Plenty fast, as long as you use a high-speed connection...

[kerochan]

3 minutes ago, des99 said:

Samsung T7 for me. Plenty fast, as long as you use a high-speed connection...

How do you mean a high speed connection des?  Mine go to a powered hub, sometimes just direct to the Mac Mini

[mrgeeze]

I'm  thinking of the 4TB SanDisk.   2TB  will be 3/4 full with all the stuff I have now.

[des99]

Just now, kerochan said:

How do you mean a high speed connection des?  Mine go to a powered hub, sometimes just direct to the Mac Mini

USB 2 is obviously very slow.

USB 3 is decent, but you'll need USB 3.2 Gen2/USB-C/TB to get the full speed the drive can deliver.

Not all hubs are the same - I bought a 10Gb/s hub (around 1000MB/s), that supposedly breaks out USB-C into four, unlabelled, identical high-speed USBA ports, that share that speed. Only they don't - two ports give the full speed, one port is essentially write-limited in one direction, and slow in the other, and one port barely works at all, just about USB2 speed.

(I bought two of these, they both have the same performance. Except it's on different ports. 🙄 When I first connected the SSD, I could barely write anything to it. It's because I had just connected it to a free port on this USB-C hub, expecting it to work, not realising that all ports were not the same. Caused me some headaches until I figured out what was happening, and benchmarked the ports.)

Just remember that USB3 on it's own, with Macs, doesn't support the full speed of these drives, you need the faster USB3.2 Gen2 version for support up to 1000MB/s, otherwise you only get half that, about 400-500MB/s. I can get about 750MB/s on my T7 via the hub, and about the same when directly connected via USB-C...

[kerochan]

3 minutes ago, des99 said:

USB 2 is obviously very slow.

USB 3 is decent, but you'll need USB 3.2 Gen2/USB-C/TB to get the full speed the drive can deliver.

Not all hubs are the same - I bought a 10Gb/s hub (around 1000MB/s), that supposedly breaks out USB-C into four, unlabelled, identical high-speed USBA ports, that share that speed. Only they don't - two ports give the full speed, one port is essentially write-limited in one direction, and slow in the other, and one port barely works at all, just about USB2 speed.

(I bought two of these, they both have the same performance. Except it's on different ports. 🙄 When I first connected the SSD, I could barely write anything to it. It's because I had just connected it to a free port on this USB-C hub, expecting it to work, not realising that all ports were not the same. Caused me some headaches until I figured out what was happening, and benchmarked the ports.)

Just remember that USB3 on it's own, with Macs, doesn't support the full speed of these drives, you need the faster USB3.2 Gen2 version for support up to 1000MB/s, otherwise you only get half that, about 400-500MB/s. I can get about 750MB/s on my T7 via the hub, and about the same when directly connected via USB-C...

Thank you, not sure I follow all of that, the t7 and t5 seem to work anyway!  no idea what kind of USB hub I have, just an ANKER USB A Hub, powered. both my T7 and T5 are plugged into that, Logic and Pro Tools work fine,   what is meant to be fast anyway? saving a copies to a back up drive and opening projects?  

 

[des99]

11 minutes ago, kerochan said:

what is meant to be fast anyway? saving a copies to a back up drive and opening projects?  

Streaming samples during playback, loading projects with hundreds of audio files, possibly thousands, or tens of thousands of samples when loading a project, streaming multiple streams of video footage for editing, and many other reasons, mostly for real-time data use where fast access makes a huge difference to the experience. I have another real-time application that takes about 15 minutes to load it's datafiles on a spinning disk, and about 30 seconds from the SSD. Plugged into a different port, it could take 30 minutes or more! When you're doing that multiple times a day, the differences add up significantly.

You can benchmark your system using Blackmagic's Disk Speed test (free, AppStore). The T7 is capable of delivering, in theory, up to 1000MB/s (in practice, it's typically ~700-800MB/s that I've benchmarked on my system). If your connection means you're only getting ~450MB/s, then your drive is taking double the time it needs to deliver the data, unnecessarily. You might as well just have bought a slower and cheaper drive... 🙂

It's good to be aware of these things to maximise the value you get from your system. If you don't care, and it works well enough for your needs, that's fine too... 👍

Edited January 22, 2023 by des99

[kerochan]

21 minutes ago, mrgeeze said:

I'm  thinking of the 4TB SanDisk.   2TB  will be 3/4 full with all the stuff I have now.

SanDisk are meant to be good, great reviews.

[kerochan]

1 minute ago, des99 said:

Streaming samples during playback, loading projects with hundreds of audio files, possibly thousands, or tens of thousands of samples when loading a project, streaming multiple streams of video footage for editing, and many other reasons, mostly for real-time data use where fast access makes a huge difference to the experience. I have another real-time application that takes about 15 minutes to load it's datafiles on a spinning disk, and about 30 seconds from the SSD. Plugged into a different port, it could take 30 minutes or more! When you're doing that multiple times a day, the differences add up significantly.

You can benchmark your system using Blackmagic's Disk Speed test (free, AppStore). The T7 is capable of delivering, in theory, up to 1000MB/s (in practice, it's typically ~700-800MB/s that I've benchmarked on my system). If your connection means you're only getting ~450MB/s, then your drive is taking double the time it needs to deliver the data, unnecessarily. You might as well just have bought a slower and cheaper drive... 🙂

It's good to be aware of these things to maximise the value you get from your system. If you don't care, and it works well enough for your needs, that's fine too... 👍

Thanks for that Des, makes sense, I think I will try the T7 in my USB C port instead, it came with the cable, so its worth a try.   Much appreciated, apologies for the thread hi-jack mrgeeze!

 

[Scriabin rocks]

Fwiw, I sent a Sandisc extreme back because it was ridiculously warm just sitting idle. Got a T7 shield instead, and it makes a difference with thermal management. Then again, horses for courses.

[des99]

1 minute ago, Scriabin rocks said:

I sent a Sandisc extreme back because it was ridiculously warm just sitting idle. Got a T7 shield instead, and it makes a difference with thermal management.

Yeah, I was concerned, and am sensitive about heat. The T7 has alleviated all those concerns for me. Plugged in, and mounted, but idle, it generates very little heat. (I was sort of expecting to have to disconnect it when not in use, to stop power going to it, but this turned out thankfully to be not necessary.)

It only really got noticeably hot in the first few days as I was continually copying hundreds of GB to it. In regular use - no heat issue at all. I'm glad I went that way, over the Sandisk one, personally. 👍

[Kim Olesen]

Well i’m still making music (big plugin heavy sessions too) on my late 2011 mac mini. I ordered an M2pro mac mini, so i expect to see a pretty decent gain in performance. 

[lookatthisguy]

5 hours ago, mrgeeze said:

I see you purchased a 1TB unit. Do  you plan to use an external SSD also?  If yes, which one?

My storage needs over 1TB are entirely music - Sound Libraries (Native Instruments, Toontrack, PG Music BIAB Real Tracks).  

Is an external SSD adequate for such things?  I know external is slower but does it really matter in the world I'm living in. Sure would save a lot of $$$ as I'm looking at at 4TB drive.

Interested in comments.

My current setup is a 16” Intel MBP with 2 TB, but that’s for software and current project files.

I now have two external drives for sample libraries (outgrew the first one after the first year of my master’s program), both NVMe SSDs, one (2 TB) with a USB 3.2 connection, the other (4 TB) with Thunderbolt 3. For reference, I’m doing media scoring, so it’s often a lot of orchestral sample instruments, usually between 50–100 tracks, all of which are sample instruments. As far as I can tell, whenever I’ve had a bottleneck, it hasn’t been from the storage.

[kerochan]

23 hours ago, des99 said:

Streaming samples during playback, loading projects with hundreds of audio files, possibly thousands, or tens of thousands of samples when loading a project, streaming multiple streams of video footage for editing, and many other reasons, mostly for real-time data use where fast access makes a huge difference to the experience. I have another real-time application that takes about 15 minutes to load it's datafiles on a spinning disk, and about 30 seconds from the SSD. Plugged into a different port, it could take 30 minutes or more! When you're doing that multiple times a day, the differences add up significantly.

You can benchmark your system using Blackmagic's Disk Speed test (free, AppStore). The T7 is capable of delivering, in theory, up to 1000MB/s (in practice, it's typically ~700-800MB/s that I've benchmarked on my system). If your connection means you're only getting ~450MB/s, then your drive is taking double the time it needs to deliver the data, unnecessarily. You might as well just have bought a slower and cheaper drive... 🙂

It's good to be aware of these things to maximise the value you get from your system. If you don't care, and it works well enough for your needs, that's fine too... 👍

Well, I tried my T7 drive in the USB C slot on my Macmini, took 6 seconds to open up a Logic Project, then I tried it in my USB A Hub, also took 6 seconds, no difference whatsoever!  worth a try  guess

[des99]

5 minutes ago, kerochan said:

Well, I tried my T7 drive in the USB C slot on my Macmini, took 6 seconds to open up a Logic Project, then I tried it in my USB A Hub, also took 6 seconds, no difference whatsoever!

It depends on what the project is doing. If it's only loading the project data, and twenty audio files from the SSD, you're aren't going to see any noticeable difference - particularly if your USB A hub is USB3 at least - it will still be a *lot* faster than a spinner.

If however, your project loaded five Kontakts, each of which is loading 50,000 samples from disk, you may get a noticeable difference in loading times, depending on how slow your slow port is. Same for streaming instruments.

Did you try benchmarking the drive connected on either port? That will tell you what you can actually get.

But like I say, if you don't mind either way, it's not an issue for you. It was absolutely an issue for me, which was why I made sure to by a USB hub that supported the full speed of the drive...

Edited January 23, 2023 by des99