StevenMorton Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) Hi, I'm trying to pan my guitars further to the center at particular parts of a song, but the volume is increasing when I do it. I can see the problem. When the guitars are panned far left and right, there is just one little bar showing as it plays, but when I pan them closer to the middle two little bars appear. I think it maybe has something to do with stereo but I'm a novice so need some help. When I right click on the track to check for panning it has the following options - Stereo Pan, Balance, Binaural Panner. I'll add a photo that shows what I mean. Thanks. 🙂 Edited February 2 by StevenMorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 5 hours ago, StevenMorton said: I'm trying to pan my guitars further to the center at particular parts of a song, but the volume is increasing when I do it. This is normal behavior with some pan laws such as 0 dB, you may want to try -3 dB Compensated instead. That setting is under File > Project Settings > Audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 (edited) That's not it. When I copy and paste the guitar part to a new track, it works properly. It's a single bar that plays when I play the track. But for some reason the existing guitar track has two bars when it plays. Also, another guitar track has no noise at all when I pan it to the right. It's only audible when it's on the left side. I think it has something to do with the track stack. It changes them from mono to stereo or something like that. Edited February 3 by StevenMorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscwilde Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, StevenMorton said: When I copy and paste the guitar part to a new track, it works properly. It's a single bar that plays when I play the track. But for some reason the existing guitar track has two bars when it plays. When you copy/paste to the new track is the target channel/track mono - and/or routed directly to an output? I note the track selected in the image is routed to a stereo bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 The new tracks are not sent to any bus. I don't know why the tracks in the photo were being sent to a stereo bus. It seems logic took it upon itself to do that. It seems that other tracks are being routed to buses too. I don't know how to use a bus so I certainly wouldn't have chosen to send the guitar track to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Why is the Aux that receives Bus 11 panned all the way to the left? 2 hours ago, StevenMorton said: I don't know how to use a bus so I certainly wouldn't have chosen to send the guitar track to one. You're using summing track stacks. When you create a summing track stack, the bus routing is automatically created for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, David Nahmani said: Why is the Aux that receives Bus 11 panned all the way to the left? You're using summing track stacks. When you create a summing track stack, the bus routing is automatically created for you. I don't know which aux you're referring to. I don't know how to use buses so didn't deliberately do anything in regards to buses. Logic is routing things but i don't want it to. Is there a way to stop Logic interfering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 minutes ago, StevenMorton said: I don't know which aux you're referring to. I The channel strip on the right on your screenshot. 7 minutes ago, StevenMorton said: Logic is routing things but i don't want it to. When you create a summing track stack, a summing routing is created for the stack, meaning the output of all the tracks are set to a bus and the input of the Aux created as the main track of the track stack is set to that same bus. 9 minutes ago, StevenMorton said: Is there a way to stop Logic interfering? If you don't want Logic to change any of the routing then you can use a folder track stack instead of a summing track stack, however for your application, you do want a summing track stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 2 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: The channel strip on the right on your screenshot. When you create a summing track stack, a summing routing is created for the stack, meaning the output of all the tracks are set to a bus and the input of the Aux created as the main track of the track stack is set to that same bus. If you don't want Logic to change any of the routing then you can use a folder track stack instead of a summing track stack, however for your application, you do want a summing track stack. I'm confused. Creating a track stack messed up my guitar tracks. They had two bars and the panning created problems. It wasted a lot of my time. I just want the three guitar tracks grouped together so I can automate the volume and panning all in one go. Is there no way to do that in Logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, StevenMorton said: I'm confused. I understand. Let's try to clear up that confusion. As long as you do things the right way, nothing should be messed up. 1 hour ago, StevenMorton said: I just want the three guitar tracks grouped together so I can automate the volume and panning all in one go. Is there no way to do that in Logic? Here's how to do that in Logic: Select all three guitar tracks, Choose Track > Create Track Stack, Create a summing stack, automate the volume and pan of the main track of the summing stack. It should look like this: If it doesn't, share a similar screenshot to show us the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 (edited) Yes, it looks like your photo now, but the initial problem still stands: panning guitars is increasing the volume. I'll explain again to make sure I'm explaining it properly. I have some guitar tracks that I want to have hard panned for the choruses, but panned more into the center for the verses. When I pan the guitars into the center, the volume increases. I don't want the volume to increase. Let me know if I should include an audio clip. Here are some photos to show what's going on. For these photos, one guitar track is being soloed. The first photo shows the guitar hard panned. There is one bar showing. The second photo shows the guitar panned closer to the center. Now two bars are showing and the volume has noticeably increased. Edited February 4 by StevenMorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) We can't see any panning or routing on your pics, a screenshot of the mixer would help more... Edited February 4 by JakobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Here's another photo. Let me know if you need anything else. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 There are no track stacks in your screenshot ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Yeah. I deleted one of them. The same problem is still there. Guitar track jumps in volume when it is panned in the middle. I have one stack track of guitar and it has the same bug. Here are some more photos to help you understand. This first photo shows the guitars panned hard left and hard right for the chorus. Nice big spread, sounds cool, volume not too loud. This second photo shows the guitars panned in the center for the bridge to the coda. Much louder (notice the yellow on the bars in the top right hand corner of the photo). Just to confirm - I don't want any increase in volume. I don't know why the volume is increasing. I want the volume to remain consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 It would be easier to troubleshoot a project with less tracks and plugins, maybe you could set up a test project with only the guitar tracks involved, and see if you can replicate the behaviour there ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 I deleted a track stack and copy and pasted all of the guitar parts again to make it easier to troubleshoot. Only one track has a plugin on it. In the last photo I posted it is the track that is highlighted gray. The next two tracks without plugins are the other guitar tracks that I copied and pasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 We need to see screenshots of the mixer, same as I showed, meaning full channel strips with meters active (meaning during playback), routing, and pan knobs. One with the pan centered, the other with the pan to one side, to see the discrepancy in levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Cool. I took pictures the same as you showed in a previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 You're still cropping your pictures, so that I cannot see the Input routing assignments. I need to see the entire channel strips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Ok so now I can see the Input assignment but you've cropped the bottom of the channel strips and there's no level on the meters. In any case, what makes you think the issue isn't related to the pan law? Which pan law are you using? On the screenshots where I can see some signal, were you playing back the exact same section of your project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscwilde Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Is the LAConvolver plug relevant here? Is it affecting gain in some way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 I pulled the channel strips up as far as I could. Logic crops them out. I don't know what Pan Law is. Should I lawyer up? Hahahaha. But seriously, I don't know what Pan Law is. I just want to pan the guitar tracks without the volume increasing. Two posts ago I posted pictures where they guitars are panned hard left for the chorus and then panned to the center for a short section before the coda. I was not playing the same section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 32 minutes ago, oscwilde said: Is the LAConvolver plug relevant here? Is it affecting gain in some way? Nope. I turned it off and the volume boost is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 30 minutes ago, StevenMorton said: But seriously, I don't know what Pan Law is. See: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/logicpro/lgcp4f230784/mac 25 minutes ago, StevenMorton said: Nope. I turned it off and the volume boost is still there. It would help if you can remove as many unnecessary variables as possible. Save a copy of your project, and in that test copy, remove all tracks, all plug-ins, all routing that are not necessary to reproduce the issue. That helps focusing on only what's creating the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 How do I find Pan Law in logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Just now, StevenMorton said: How do I find Pan Law in logic? File > Project Settings > Audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 I deleted all the other files and it still happens. Here is a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenMorton Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Here's some audio so you can hear the problem. Massive jump in volume at 0:25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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