I'm Deciding Between Logic and DP

[Jazzooo]

Hi, everyone--I've been lurking for a while now, as I've been in a process over the last month of deciding which program I'm going to end up with. I've appreciated the help I've soaked up.

 

I'd like to empty my head--I just came from a great Logic/Ensemble clinic tonight--before it explodes. I'd really love to hear from anyone, but especially those who have used both programs (Logic and DP).

 

I'm a composer, mostly jazz, and a player. I've done some midi work but always using a hardware sequencer. Right as the art of sequencing was evolving in the '90s, I focused on my playing and the midi stuff went by the wayside. I did my recording on a Roland VS2480, on which I can pretty much fly.

 

And then--I got the chance to score an indie film a couple of years ago. If it wasn't so painful, it would have been funny--I sat there with a VHS remote in one hand and a stopwatch in the other, timing scenes and the composing and recording cues to fit. It actually worked until the director began a 9 month process of recutting the

'finished' film, which required me to do an enormous amount of re-recording, re-synching, and re-thinking the meaning of life.

 

Now I have another indie flick coming up at the end of the year, and I've decided it's time to get over my technodweeb phobia about making music with computers. About a month ago, I started spending time in studios owned by great guys who do everything from scoring film and TV to recording and mixing jazz albums to doing remixes. I did spend time with DP users, but it was at the start of my learning curve and I didn't get as much out of the visits as I have with Logic users for that reason. I am reading books about recording on DAWs and haunting LogicProHelp.com and Unicornation and a few other sites.

 

I guess I should list my system requirements quickly here:

 

It's got to be portable (I'll be going between San Diego and a home in central Mexico quite a bit, so this is key);

 

The ability (when in my Mexico studio) to record 16 tracks simultaneously;

 

Physical faders for mixing;

 

A strong midi sequencer--time to get back into it with a vengeance.

 

I already know the computer I want: the MacBook Pro laptop with extra RAM, a faster hard drive and a few external Firewire drives. The Ensemble looks amazing and when the time comes to pull the trigger, unless something better hits the scene, one of those puppies will be mine. For now, I will probably buy a MOTU Ultralite and just practice recording, editiing and sequencing over the summer. I want to be at least familiar with these aspects of the program by the time the work actually starts flowing.

 

Ok, so that was a long introduction, sorry! My big challenge right now is deciding which program to buy, DP5 (when it comes out for the IntelMacs) or LogicPro7.2. Even though I'd heard some horror stories about the complexity of Logic, I have to say that it doesn't seem any geekier than DP. Honestly, a lot of DAW stuff seems geeky and inconvenient at first blush to me (I've been involved in the mixing of a few ProTools albums as well), though the flexibility and power is appealing. Both seem to be well thought-out when it comes to working with video.

 

Of course, Logic's edge (from my vantage point) is that it is owned by Apple, which owns Final Cut Pro, which means...they will probably innovate and develop both programs pretty consistently for a long time. I'm also impressed by the software bundle that comes with LogicPro 7.2. What I don't like is that many of my friends and colleagues, both here and in Mexico, are using DP. I feel a little queasy about turning my back on such a built-in support group and being the only one using Logic in that circle.

 

Like I said, I haven't really been able to spend as much time with the DP users this month, so I feel a little uninformed about what is good, great, and not so great about DP.

 

I understand that this is a Logic forum--over at VSPlanet (a Roland recording user community) comparitive posts about competing units often explode into format wars. I apolgize if I'm asking an awkward question--unfortunately, it is the biggest question facing me right now and I don't exactly know how to make a decision. I'm almost to the point of flipping a coin.

 

So, to boil this novel down, if you've used both programs, how would you describe the biggest differences between them? Is it about features, layout, add-ons, or sound? Does one seem intuitive and the other not so much?

 

I thank you for your help.

 

Doug

[jjigga3000]

I've used both and I know a lot of people who use DP4, but any my friends who used Logic Pro ended up switching from DP4 to Logic. To be honest with you, all program have some cool feature that places them above, one another. But seeing that you want to set up a mobile unit, I think logic would be your best bet. For the simple fact that is the best sequencer program on the Market.

[David Nahmani]

Hi Doug, and welcome here!

 

A strong MIDI sequencer - CHECK. You'll be happy with Logic. I haven't used DP extensively but the few times I've tried I was so frustrated with not being able to easily drag the mouse to move or copy the Regions from one track to another.

 

Now don't get me wrong, Logic will probably make you re-think the meaning of life at the beginning as well. But once you get to know it, it gives you so much freedom to do pretty much anything you want... keep in mind that you will always find an amazing feature that one software has and the others don't.

 

If you want portable, get a MacBook Pro. They are powerful enough for a LOT of audio applications, and it doesn't seem like you are going to use large sample libraries anytime soon, so that should be perfect for you.

 

Physical faders.. that's against portability, but if you need it, you can get the mackie control universal. Or you can go for anything that has faders. You can probably find something smaller. The mackie has the motorized faders, which is always neat.

 

Oops, I just read now that you now you want the MacBook Pro. Good choice.

 

Audio interface:

The Ensemble looks amazing, it's a real christmas tree when you turn it on, and it has an Apogee logo . No seriously it's a high quality audio interface, it has the same clock as the Rosetta, excellent converters and offers the amazing flexibility of recalling settings such as the gain knobs on the preamps within the song! Keep in mind it's not even released yet, so it's a brand new product, which has not been widely tested by the customer base yet.

 

RME Fireface and Metric Halo are extremly serious pieces of hardware that offer high quality converters and pretty good flexibility. Really solid drivers as well. That's the tried and true interfaces. You know they just work.

 

MOTU is a good company and has the reputation of always releasing very solid drivers. Their interfaces are very flexible as well. In my opinion the sound is one step down from the previous choices I named, while still of really high quality.

 

Well, I'm going to recommend Logic vs DP but that would be unfair as I have so much experience with Logic and so little with DP. One big feature of Logic vs DP is that Logic comes with a bunch of plug-ins: sampler (the EXS24 has pretty much become the standard sampler on the mac platform), convolution reverb, mastering plug-ins, effects, instruments (synths, modeling, drum machine...). You might not use them all but they are all pretty good sounding instruments.

 

So in the end, you will learn more from someone who is intimate with both programs, but I just... had to chime in anyway!

[thindave]

Hey all, I just sold my copy of DP 4.5 to focus mainly on Logic. I just got a MacBook Pro as well - same config you're looking at (15" in my case). The only issue I see with the 15" is that there is only 1 firewire bus built in. I saw that there is a SATA adapter coming soon for the ExpressCard slot, so I think that's the way I'm going to go - external SATA drives and my Presonus FirePod.

 

From a UE perspective, ProTools still makes the most sense to me but I don't want to be tied to their hardware. I tried to make DP work, but something about the interface seemed so dated to me - I don't know what it was, can't really put my finger on it. I didn't like Logic 6's interface either, but 7 has really grown on me. The fact that it runs great on the new hardware was the kicker for me. DP seemed to be lagging behind in the power department...

[anamorphis]

Hi!

i don't have much experience with Logic, yet. Even less with DP, but I do have a sugestion for your interest on Physical faders for mixing.

Well, there's a new MIDI controler from Novation, called ReMote SL, that will preety much fill your needs (faders, MIDI keyboard, small size). Because of the system that they named Automap, this product comes prepared to recognize what software you are using (in case of Logic you'll have to download the new version of Automap, for free at their website), and it imediatly let's you controll every part of the software and plugins that you open, including, the mixer, and all the faders...

It's preety impresive. But go see the details for yourself... I think you'll be very happy with it. Check it out at http://www.novationmusic.com/product.asp?id=30&view=overview&Type=1&bArchive=False

 

Hope this could help.

[Jazzooo]

Thanks everyone--and I really appreciate the quick responses.

 

I should have made it clearer that the purchases of the control unit (which would live in my Mexico studio) and the Apogee Ensemble and whatnot are for down the road--probably in the Fall when I return from Mexico (I'm leaving in June). In the meantime, I need to spend the summer getting used to recording, editing and working with midi on a software platform, loaded into the MacBook Pro. If I buy a Motu interface, it would be a smaller one like the Ultralite, just to enable me to throw everything into a backpack and hit the road. A year from now, I'm sure I can always use the extra inputs.

 

It does seem to boil down to how one's brain works, and unfortunately I just don't know how to do a proper evaluation between the two programs (by the way, are these things called programs, or applications, or apps, or DAWs, or...?) If DP5 for the IntelMacs was ready, I could download a trial version to see for myself, but MOTU's email response was just a form letter saying 'by the end of the second quarter of 2006. When we get closer, we'll announce a release date.'

 

Thindave, what is a SATA drive? Are you saying that with only one Firewire slot on the MacBook Pro, I couldn't hook up two or three external FW drives? Sorry to be such a newbie--I thought they could be chained up. Also, what does UE stand for, as in "From a UE perspective..." I'm not finding it in the glossary of my DAW recording primer.

 

And Dave, you said: "Now don't get me wrong, Logic will probably make you re-think the meaning of life at the beginning as well."

 

Well, maybe our lives need re-thinking now and then anyway.

 

Thanks, and by all means please keep those comments coming, especially if you've done work on both platforms.

[Ashermusic]

Both great apps. I know 3 excellent player/composers who switched from DP to Logic because they claim DP's midi timing is inferior to Logic's and doesn't feel as good Others will say the opposite.

 

Im general IMHO the following is fair to say:

 

1. Logic will have many different ways to perform a task. DP will have fewer, sometimes only 1, but it will be very direct.

2. Logic is more customizable.

3. Logic comes with better plug-ins.

4. Logic is made by Apple so it will have an earlier jump on OS and hardware updates.

5. DP has added lots of scoring featuress that Logic guys like myself envy.

6. DP has done a better job implementing plug-in delay compensation.

7. Logic is WAY more cpu efficient in its handling of virtual instruments and plug-ins.

8. DP has its own version of Beat Detective, Logic does not,

9. Logic will soon allow you to use the Serato Time and Pitch algorhythm for time stretching and pitch shifting (if you buy it) and it is great.

10. Logic can be buggy with new releases. DP can be even buggier.

 

 

Bottom line:

No bad choice either way. Overall, I would choose Logic.

[guavadude]

I've been a DP user since StudioVision died (how long has that been!?...ten years?), and have used PT daily for the last four years. If you're coming from PT, then I think DP is very similar in structure, but nowhere near as efficient and stable. DP has some great video features as well.

 

That being said, I've switched to Logic for most of the reasons David mentioned above. Being Apple owned, I get the feeling that it works better with the Mac hardware and will continue to be refined into a more Apple-esque software. DP has nowhere near the CPU efficiency of Logic. That was the big thing for me.

 

But to actually learn Logic, you need to read the manual....alot....hang out on the forum, buy some 3rd party books and videos, drink lots of coffee, and take lots of aspirin. Eventually you get to make music and then it's great!!

 

That to me is the big problem with Logic, which again, I think Apple will eventually sort out.....I hope.

 

DP is the box of ten crayons and Logic is the box of 1000 with the sharpener built into the box. I like colors.

 

Kevin

[Jazzooo]

Thank you, Jay--a couple of quick questions about your post, please:

 

"1. Logic will have many different ways to perform a task. DP will have fewer, sometimes only 1, but it will be very direct."

 

When you boil it down, do you feel that at least one of Logic's ways of doing a task can usually be classified as 'very direct'? I know that's a broad question, since so many of the tasks are complex to begin with, but sometimes I just need to sit down and make music, without thinking too much.

 

"3. Logic comes with better plug-ins."

 

Based on what I heard last night at the Logic clinic, and also my experience fooling around with the EX at a friend's studio, DP would have to jump through a lot of hoops to match it all. I really did like much of what I heard--the convolution 'verb was great-sounding as well.

 

"5. DP has added lots of scoring featuress that Logic guys like myself envy. "

 

Yes, I'm seeing that as well. I guess in my gut, I'm hoping that since it's coming from the Apple/Final Cut camp that Logic's developers wouldn't allow DP to get that far ahead of them in terms of film features...but things don't always go the way you predict. I don't know how much of Logic's core user base is actually working with film, so I don't have a feeling about how important they are to Apple. I do know several film guys using DP right now.

 

"6. DP has done a better job implementing plug-in delay compensation.

7. Logic is WAY more cpu efficient in its handling of virtual instruments and plug-ins. "

 

Here is where my lack of experience really damns me--I would think that being more CPU efficient would result in better plug-in delay response? What is the difference between these two points?

 

About latency: I'm learning as much as I can without actual hands-on experience, but it is going to be vital that I can play without noticing latency, even if it means recording audio tracks without hearing effects. I am a feel player, and things have to feel right for me to do my best work. Am I correct in assuming that either program will have a way to do that?

 

"8. DP has its own version of Beat Detective, Logic does not"

 

Here's a question--when someone comes up with their own version of a popular program like Beat Detective, isn't it kind of a given that the others would do it too? Why wouldn't they? Do mfrs typically let the other guy just have that feature, whioe they work on something new?

 

"9. Logic will soon allow you to use the Serato Time and Pitch algorhythm for time stretching and pitch shifting (if you buy it) and it is great. "

 

I heard and saw it in action last night--it is a ginormous home run, imo.

[anamorphis]

"But to actually learn Logic, you need to read the manual....alot....hang out on the forum, buy some 3rd party books and videos, drink lots of coffee, and take lots of aspirin. Eventually you get to make music and then it's great!!"

 

Oh men!!! That's great... I've been spending these last months reading the manuals, watching the videos from Martin Sitter... and that is really what you have to do... And you want to know the best part? I dont even have Logic yet... I'm waiting for the summer hollyday to buy a Mac and the rest of the gear... but I got so excited about Logic just by reading over the internet, and reading the manual, that I just cant stop... I'll probably be almost ready to star, even before I got Logic...

But I have a feeling that the coffee and aspirins will linger for a long time, though!

[thindave]

Thanks everyone--and I really appreciate the quick responses.

 

 

Thindave, what is a SATA drive? Are you saying that with only one Firewire slot on the MacBook Pro, I couldn't hook up two or three external FW drives? Sorry to be such a newbie--I thought they could be chained up. Also, what does UE stand for, as in "From a UE perspective..." I'm not finding it in the glossary of my DAW recording primer.

 

So SATA is Serial ATA - very drive interface - see here for more info:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

 

I've heard mixed reports of running your interface and a drive over the same bus, but I imagine if you get the 7200RPM drive, that won't be much of a concern,

 

UE - User Experience - just how everything seems to work as a whole...

Edited April 27, 2006 by thindave

[gordon.murrison]

anamorphis,

 

Which Martin Sitter videos? The ones from MacProVideo? Are they good?

[anamorphis]

anamorphis,

 

Which Martin Sitter videos? The ones from MacProVideo? Are they good?

 

Yes, those are the ones. Well, as I said, I'm not working with Logic yet (strange but true ), but as far as I can tell, yes, they are really easy and simple. But I'm also reading the manuals, along with the videos (really helpfull), and reading the forum, almost everyday.

[Jazzooo]

Thindave--I checked out the SATA link, thanks. Man, I'm barely educated enough about computers to get through two paragraphs of that stuff, but I think I get the message:

 

SATA is a new drive, um, protocol? And also a physical storage unit you can use to relieve pressure on your internal drive? So I could keep, for example, my virtual instruments and sampler on that drive instead of on my laptop?

 

Question: one of the ways I envisioned using a Firewire drive was to grab some tracks from a friend's Logic studio and bring them back to mine. If my friend has an older Mac, will I still be able to to hook my SATA drive up to it for this process?

 

If so, why isn't everyone using SATA (or are they)?

[thindave]

Well, for that usage, you're better off using Firewire. I was thinking that if you wanted to track instruments and record at the same time, it might be better off going to the SATA drive. Since the drives in MacBook pro are fast & big, I suppose you wouldn't have an issue recording to the internal drive and then using a firewire drive to move files/archive data...

 

Dave

[Jazzooo]

"Well, for that usage, you're better off using Firewire. I was thinking that if you wanted to track instruments and record at the same time, it might be better off going to the SATA drive. "

 

Dave--I'm sorry to be a pest about this, but what is the difference between 'tracking instruments' and 'recording'? They sound like the same thing to me.

 

I have another general Logic question. I've heard DP users say that they disliked the Logic 'environments' when they used Logic. Putting their preferences aside for a minute, I've visited two Logic studios and attended a 2 hour clinic put on by Apple dudes, and I have never once heard the word 'environment' brought up. I kid you not--I was listening for it.

 

What are environments, and why do some people fear them while others seem to ignore them?

[thelocalhost]

What are environments, and why do some people fear them while others seem to ignore them?

 

It is the most amazingly rad feature of Logic.

 

It allows you to do insanely cool midi routing/modifying/manipulation. This feature makes Logic an amazing program. However, it will always be the newbie's nemisis. It isn't that difficult to understand, but it takes a little reading/playing around to be comfortable with it. I think many people struggle with it because they are coming from PT, Cubase, or DP and where there is no concept, or idea of an Environment. So it's a very foreign concept from the beginning. Once you get over the learning curve, you'll see the unbelievable flexibilty of the Environment.

 

This one feature is a good example of why Logic should be put it in a new class, or paradigm of DAW.

 

DP5 looks really nice, but for anyone who is heavily using midi, Logic has got to be the choice.

 

good luck on your choice.

[thindave]

Dave--I'm sorry to be a pest about this, but what is the difference between 'tracking instruments' and 'recording'? They sound like the same thing to me.

 

Same difference, you pest...

[David Nahmani]

I agree with 'thelocalhost', the environment is what makes Logic an object oriented program (another scare word). Basically that is what gives Logic its incredible flexibility. You can customize your own mixers and route anything anywhere (or almost). You do not have to know the environment before starting to use Logic, but when you do you can start doing some incredible stuff.

 

SATA is faster than Firewire, especially SATA 3.0 (previously called SATA II). It was first developped as an internal solution but is now fully usable for external drives, although you'll need an expansion card since macs don't have SATA connectors. Firewire is easier to use, since all most macs already have firewire connectors, but it is slower and will take some of the bus bandwidth which is also used by the audio interface.

 

I also agree that for 16 tracks of recording, the internal drive might be all you need, and firewire makes a great transportation, storage and backup solution.

[Jazzooo]

Coool. Thanks, guys. I just met a young man who considers himself a Logic power user and says he never deals with the environments, because they are 'other ways to achieve the same things.' I've not heard his music and can't speak to his level of expertise, but that's at least his opinion.

[guavadude]

I just wanted to post a follow up.

I spent the entire day recording vocals, editing, mixing two commercials and Logic didn't crash once.

I used a ton of plugins, had Trilogy and RMX and Ultrabeat, EXS, a couple of ES synths, and a partridge in a pear tree and it was ROCK SOLID!! I never would have made these tracks happen in DP. No way, no how. I could have done it in PT but it would have taken alot longer. The channel strip presets are such a great starting point for so many things.

 

What a great program and best of all, I had a blast.

I didn't feel like I was fighting the software.

 

Kevin

[PSPartyband]

I have been using logic and DP for the past few years and I like and use both programs for different reasons.

 

All of my buddies who make music on a mac use DP, I’m the only one, in my group, using Logic. One guy that I work with a lot makes music for TV shows and he believes that DP is better for making music for video. I don’t know since I have never done it. but watching him do it looks great.

 

what I love about DP...

 

“Chunks”

many use it for song arranging, putting verse in one chuck and chorus in another and bridge etc. etc. But I use it more to store, into one song, many versions of the complete song. I create karaoke midi files and like to keep different versions, ie, one for GM, GS, XG, and so on all on their own chunk. I also copy parts from songs like horn arrangements to there own chuck for editing to make charts.

Chunks also make DP a great live performance sequencer. you can put your entire show into one song file an easily and seamlessly go from one song to another, even automatically without ever having to touch the computer after you hit start.

 

“.midman files”

this is what I feel is Logic’s biggest failing. these files are patch name lists for most synths. DP uses these files in connection with Apples “Audio Midi Setup” to address your outboard synths. they give you quick access to program and bank change commands. they can be edited easily to give you any custom configuration you want. Logic doesn’t use these files, in fact logic never looks at your audio midi setup, except when you run Logic's set up assistant.

Logic's way of handling outboard synths is as archaic as OS6 and probably hasn’t changed since then. Logic’s midi instruments can only address 15 banks of sounds, and most modern synths have many more than that. Which mean you have to use multiple objects to address one instrument. also it does not allow for any custom configuration like in DP. for example, I have each synths midnam file set up so that all my piano’s are together in one menu, basses in another and so on. in Logic you have to remember which bank each sound is and if you have 40 banks to look through, you spend half your day looking for sounds.

but since you will most likely never work with outboard synths it will not matter to you much

 

What I love about Logic...

 

the look and the feel of Logic is so much nicer than DP. I love working in the arrange window. I do most of my editing right there. DP’s tracks window is too small and you cant zoom in to get any editing done. I can’t even look at the sequence window in DP when working with midi, much too messy. I love the fact that when you select a track to work on in the arrange window, all the info about that track is right there on the left including a channel strip. I love that you can set each track to zoom automatically as soon as you select it. I love that you can set the transport in the arrange window and have it float too, and resize it. I love track based and region based automation. I love being able to automate just about everything. DP has automation too, Logic just looks cooler

 

“PLUGIN’S”!!! Logic has em, lots of them, and instruments! DP is just starting to add some with DP5. Logic wins big time here

 

Channel Strip settings!!! oh how I love these

 

“Customization” Logic is the clear winner over DP. you can create any kind of work flow you want

 

so what does it come down to. Personal taste! Since you have not much experience with computer based recording, which ever program you decide on, will be the one you learn, and get use to. all programs have good and bad points. for us that come from other programs we are always going to miss certain aspects of the other program, and wish they had one feature or another. you can’t go wrong with either program. they are both real good tools for making music

Edited May 5, 2006 by PSPartyband

[emgcarra]

I have to say Hello to everyone. I am new to this forum.

Next: No problem at all. I just made a whole record with co-producer. He uses DP and I use LP...Very nice import and export files and seq´s...

No big deals...It would be as usual, a matter of personal taste.

You can´t go wrong with either one of those two programs.So good luck..

 

Regards...

[Jazzooo]

Just wanted to update those who have helped me out on this thread--the other day I ordered computer, a 17" MacBookPro with 2 gigs of RAM and a 7200 rpm drive. I still haven't decided between Logic and DP, though. My decision might be made for me if MOTU doesn't introduce their binary version pretty soon, as I'm leaving the country in early June. After all my research, I can really see the benefits and drawbacks of each progam. DP seems more intuitive; Logic is more cpu efficient and I'm very impressed with the bundle that comes with it. DP has better filmscoring tools at this moment (though I imagine Logic will catch up in that regard down the road); Logic is, well, availble right now!

 

The bugs that people have reported with DP5, which seem more plentiful than the bugs in Logic 7.2, have been sobering. For you guys who are pretty comfortable troubleshooting things like stuck midi notes and other gremlins, it's one thing. For a guy like me, who is going to be down in central rural Mexico learning the program it's another. I'll have to assume that anything that goes wrong is user error, and I'm sure I'll be right most of the time. But for those times when I'm not right, it could get pretty frustrating because I really don't have an idea what kind of behavior to expect in the first place. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's part of my decision-making process nonetheless.

 

Anyway, I took the first step into the brave new world (for me) of computer recording. Thank you for your help up to this point!

 

Doug

[Jazzooo]

Well, it's (almost) resolved!

 

I just ordered Logic, the educational version, for $499 using my wife's student ID. Thank God for Spanish classes! The only drawback is that I won't be able to upgrade when Logic 8 comes out, but seeing as that won't be for quite a while and by then I might hate Logic already be using DP...I feel good about the decision. It will be here tomorrow.

 

As for the 'puter...the one I ordered on may 3rd has not arrived, and I get a different story each time I ask. Screw 'em. I'm cancelling that order and buying one in stock from an Apple store this afternoon. Sadly, it only has the stock 5400 rpm drive as opposed to the 7200 rpm drive I wanted, but since I'm going to be keeping my audio on a separate drive, I should be ok--right?

[David Nahmani]

Buy from Amazon. They have better prices!

 

If you're using an external drive, then the speed of the internal pretty much affect the time it's going to take for your machine to startup, and also whenever OS X has to access the system drive.

[halfshark]

anamorphis,

 

Which Martin Sitter videos? The ones from MacProVideo? Are they good?

 

Yes, those are the ones. Well, as I said, I'm not working with Logic yet (strange but true ), but as far as I can tell, yes, they are really easy and simple. But I'm also reading the manuals, along with the videos (really helpfull), and reading the forum, almost everyday.

 

I am glad that you mentioned those videos, those are the same ones I ordered the other day!

[Jazzooo]

"Buy from Amazon. They have better prices! "

 

You couldn't have mentioned this a little earlier?

 

"If you're using an external drive, then the speed of the internal pretty much affect the time it's going to take for your machine to startup, and also whenever OS X has to access the system drive."

 

DOes OSX have to access the system drive typically during music recording or mixing?

 

Well, here I sit, with my brand new MCP 17 incher, my brand new Ultralite and Logic Pro 7.2.

 

Now what?

 

Just kidding. I'm just getting into the tutorial song. I'm not exactly having fun yet, but I'm engaged. And I do understand now what people were talking about when they said that Logic will take some getting used to--just reading the 'getting started' literature seems pretty dense and technical. But I shall soldier on--everything I've ever learned seemed hard to me at first, except playing music which comes easily to me.

 

I will order some DVDs to watch and haunt (and search) this forum with newbie questions.

 

I have to say that I think the tiny type in Logic and DP is a turnoff, and I can't believe it doesn't bother anyone else. I'm 50 years old, for goodness sake. I can't understand why there isn't some option for a larger font.

[Jazzooo]

Time for a bonafide update on Logic.

 

A 20 something named Ryan who recently produced his first CD on Logic just left after a 90 minute crash course. I can't believe how much simpler it is to learn this program from someone showing me how to do things as opposed to reading about the same information--night and day. I must have a touch of ADHD.

 

We didn't touch the 'environments' once, and I doubt I ever will--at least not for a long time. I recorded a vocal track, a few midi tracks, some audio tracks and a couple of loops for good measure. Some of my criticisms have melted away, and others are now more refined. But overall, it doesn't seem as convoluted as it did a week ago--typical learning curve, I'm sure.

 

I scanned the sampler library, edited some of the excellent electric piano sounds and assigned them to tracks and recorded them. There are a few very good B3 sims in there as well.

 

The strange things I've encountered are along the lines of midi tracks being called 'Audio Instruments.' Of course, you all know this but it's kind of silly and anti-intuitive to me.

 

There were a few other things like that--the key command for "Automation?" It's not an A, it's a V for volume. (What, they never automate pan or any of the other dozen parameters?) Other key commands stick pretty close to the something a little more intuitive.

 

I still might buy DP before I leave and just keep it in the box to see if I don't fall in love with Logic. Some of what bugs me is probably computer specific, and not program specific stuff. Because I want to work with my controller keyboard in front of me right now, accessing a lot of Key Commands is a pain in the butt. Apple's highest resolution setting makes everything incredibily tiny, and the lower settings a little blurry. This is something that software designers should consider when choosing their fonts.

 

But I had a good time today. Maybe I'll lay down a track tonight before bed time.

 

Really, nothing to be scared of so far. It isn't likely to become my favorite way to record, but my favorite way to record doesn't integrate midi and multiple plug ins, so it's going to be a tradeoff.

[David Nahmani]

The strange things I've encountered are along the lines of midi tracks being called 'Audio Instruments.' Of course, you all know this but it's kind of silly and anti-intuitive to me.

 

Here's how I usually present it to my students:

 

Basically you have 3 types of Tracks in Logic that you are going to use to record on.

 

Audio: record Audio, playback Audio

MIDI Instrument: record MIDI, playback MIDI (and direct it to your MIDI interface to trigger an external, hardware MIDI Instrument).

Audio Instrument (hybrid): record MIDI, playback Audio (generated from the software instrument inserted in the 'input' slot of the Audio Instrument Object).

 

There were a few other things like that--the key command for "Automation?" It's not an A, it's a V for volume.

I think of it as 'V' for 'View Automation'. But you can easily change it to A if that makes more sense to you. That's the beauty of Logic: it is highly customizable.

 

Because I want to work with my controller keyboard in front of me right now, accessing a lot of Key Commands is a pain in the butt. Apple's highest resolution setting makes everything incredibily tiny, and the lower settings a little blurry. This is something that software designers should consider when choosing their fonts.

You can program MIDI Key commands to use your MIDI Keyboard to perform anything that can be assigned a key command in Logic.

You can use 'Universal Access' (in your system preferences) to zoom on your screen. Default key commands are usually: Command-Option-8 to toggle on/off, then Command-Option-+ to zoom in, and '-' (minus) to zoom out.

Apple is working on resolution independant user interface, which should take care of that problem. http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=610