Switching Articulations using Program Changes

[stevenson]

Ok here is a fairly self explanatory logic file with sampler instrument and samples for just middle C in my full violins. It shows you how I switch articulations using program changes that are converted into cc1 messages to activate the key switches.

 

I have used an old version of my EXS 'full instruments' so it looks a tiny bit messy. You will need to open up the instrument editor to understand how I have done it. There are some velocities missing in some of the articulations but this should suffice to show those who are interested how this works. Also, it looks a little messy because the articulations are sourced from 3 different libraries with their different methods of naming files. You can see that i have simply copy and pasted from them into this instrument. That part of it is simple enough - the time consuming part comes from auditioning and A/Bing different versions of the same articulation. The beauty of the EXS is that I can just keep extending and extending my instrument. I have smaller instruments for shorter load up times and different versions of the bigger ones depending on the style of music. For example, I have a string set that is predominantly miroslav for a more expressive sound, and one that is predominantly vienna for a more brilliant, vibrant sound.

 

It is very simple and efficient, and means I go from convincing mock-up to score and parts within a very small step. Its easy to use and with logics other editing capabilities very fast.

 

Note also the key release fader which I sometimes automate to make lines a little more or less legato. Very useful also in conjuction with an aux for string reverb. Sometimes reducing the reverb creates more clarity. Adding more to the release time gives the impression of increased reverb, so the reverb aux is to compensate.

 

Enjoy.

Articulations Demo.zip

[jmarti]

Rohan,

I really appreciate your taking time to upload this ISO. I want to work with it for several days, then may have a question or two. Thanks again for your

graciousness.

J. Marti

[stevenson]

no problem - good luck with it.

[David Nahmani]

Hi Rohan, and thanks a lot for another major contribution!

[sondod]

More homework. Thanks!!!

[camillo jr]

This looks very interesting but I can't get the instrument to load. I get a message "MISSING: Violins Full demo" in the EXS. The only sound I get is the EXS sine wave. The song is on my desktop and the instrument and it's samples are in that folder. How can I make this work?

 

Edit: I also tried loading from the EXS editor and it looks like the regions load in the EXS editor but when I click on the sample ed button I get "specified volume doesn't exist Result code = -35"

[stevenson]

the "sample instruments" folder has to be on the same level as the "basic orchestral template" file that came with the zip. try putting them all into a folder on your desktop. if you click on the menu in the esx and go refresh menu, then click again it should have violins full demo, listed.

 

OR drag the violin full demo into your sampler instruments folder in library->application support->logic->sampler instruments

 

then refresh the menu again.

 

the esx should look for the samples.

[stevenson]

This looks very interesting but I can't get the instrument to load. I get a message "MISSING: Violins Full demo" in the EXS. The only sound I get is the EXS sine wave. The song is on my desktop and the instrument and it's samples are in that folder. How can I make this work?

 

Edit: I also tried loading from the EXS editor and it looks like the regions load in the EXS editor but when I click on the sample ed button I get "specified volume doesn't exist Result code = -35"

 

also it may be that you have your project manager to only search for samples in the PM database, meaning that unless you have run a scan it will ignore the new audio files. switch it over to using the finder and it should find the files all right - otherwise you will have to go to the PM and scan for it.

[David Nahmani]

You have to drag the folder in ~/Library/Application Support/Logic/Sampler Instruments/.

[camillo jr]

This looks very interesting but I can't get the instrument to load. I get a message "MISSING: Violins Full demo" in the EXS. The only sound I get is the EXS sine wave. The song is on my desktop and the instrument and it's samples are in that folder. How can I make this work?

 

Edit: I also tried loading from the EXS editor and it looks like the regions load in the EXS editor but when I click on the sample ed button I get "specified volume doesn't exist Result code = -35"

 

also it may be that you have your project manager to only search for samples in the PM database, meaning that unless you have run a scan it will ignore the new audio files. switch it over to using the finder and it should find the files all right - otherwise you will have to go to the PM and scan for it.

 

Ok, I got it to work by doing a "scan folder" from the PM.

 

A couple questions....

 

Where do you set the PM to do one or the other of scanning its own data base or using the finder?

 

Regarding the articulations, I gather this is not something that is done in real time? Is that where the "time consuming part" comes in, assigning different program changes and listening to the results?

[stevenson]

Ok, I got it to work by doing a "scan folder" from the PM.

 

A couple questions....

 

Where do you set the PM to do one or the other of scanning its own data base or using the finder?

 

Regarding the articulations, I gather this is not something that is done in real time? Is that where the "time consuming part" comes in, assigning different program changes and listening to the results?

 

you set the PM preferences in preferences-> project manager.

 

the articulations can of course be done in real time.

"

in my example, i use program changes that are converted in to cc1 messages in order to make the articulation switch ie switch from one group to which a series of articulation sampes point, to another.

 

you could do this directly with cc1 which are the smae as the mod wheel. if you were to bypass the transformers and send info directly into the esx instrument, the mod wheel could be used to make the articulation changes, which could also be recorded.

 

if you go down this route, you may want to either change the esx instrument to have a larger range between controller messages ie 0-11 for example for arco, or set up another transformer that scales the messages down. that way you can have larger throws of the mod wheel to change the articulation rather than tiny little increments. actually, i think if you try it you don't have to bypass the transformer - it'll work anyway.

 

the reason i use program changes is simply to distinguish articulation changes between other types of data within the event editor. also it is easy and quick to enter with an apple-click on the "88" sign. but i write in logic like i would write on a piece of paper, i am classically trained and hardly ever play anything in in real time. i step time virtually everything. it's just how i think, so i don't worry about changing the articualtions in real time.

 

another way would be to use differences in midi channel - but i advise against that as it can cause problems with polyphonic score styles.

 

another way of setting this up is to use multi-instrumnets as the source, thereby allowing you to enter in the articulations into the banks. but again this has problems, because if you use the instrument names in the score window, they will show up as the articulation, not the instrument.

 

the problem with the GM instrument that i use is that i have to rememeber that "grand piano" is arco, "bright grand" is detaché etc. but i live with that. i have requested that they allow the GM instruments to be user editable which would allow me to put in my articulations. that would be delightful it would.

[David Nahmani]

Rohan, you could use a multi-instrument to name the program change "arco", "pizz" and so on. You can still cable the single instrument before the multi if you want to be able to use all the additional parameters it has to offer. And that way you won't see the name of the articulation, but the name of the instrument.

 

In the case of the trill, you could not use any program change at all, but have Logic switch articulation as soon as you insert a trill on the score page.

 

Come to think of it, you could use all the trill signs to switch articulations, or any other sign you wish in your score editor, rather than program change.

[stevenson]

Rohan, you could use a multi-instrument to name the program change "arco", "pizz" and so on. You can still cable the single instrument before the multi if you want to be able to use all the additional parameters it has to offer. And that way you won't see the name of the articulation, but the name of the instrument.

 

hmm i don't think that helps much because when you insert the program change in the event editor it will come up with single instrument bank list rather than the multi.

 

In the case of the trill, you could not use any program change at all, but have Logic switch articulation as soon as you insert a trill on the score page.

 

Come to think of it, you could use all the trill signs to switch articulations, or any other sign you wish in your score editor, rather than program change.

 

i remember trying this but there were some practical difficulties - though i might have another go at it to see if i can get used to it. it's a good idea.

 

BTW somone actually designed an extremely complicated environment setup to make crescendo markings convert into cc7. its virtuoso use of the environment but again not really practical. i am of the persuasion that setups ought to be reasonably simple in order to head off problems in the heat of battle. despite appearances, i'm not much of a technophile, i just try to find the most efficient method from A/B so i can concentrate on the music.

 

the logic team are planning on updating the score editor (long overdue) and i am hoping that articulations such as trills can attached in the manner of stoccatos and accents, and accents and stoccatos will have meta values we can convert into articulation switches.

[David Nahmani]

hmm i don't think that helps much because when you insert the program change in the event editor it will come up with single instrument bank list rather than the multi.

Well no, obviously you would assign your Arrange Track to the multi, not the single. I've attached a picture of how I do it with your template, and it works.

 

As for using Meta Events (score symbols) rather than Program Change... what is more complicated when using Meta Events? It sounds the same amount of work and/or troubleshooting to me.. (or actually a lot less work!)... but maybe you have a good reason I'm not aware of.

 

As for transforming crescendo markings into CC7 ramps, that sounds a little more work, but nothing to be scared of. If you can do it once and make it work, then you should be able to use it. That's the kind of thing that makes people use Logic over any other software. I hear you though on the troubleshooting issue. But Meta rather than Program change shouldn't be any harder to work with and/or troubleshoot.

[David Nahmani]

PS: I just realize now that I've said in a previous post to cable the single before the multi. I meant the multi before the single.

[stevenson]

the problem with using the multi is that the articulations show up in view-instruments in the score editor. this might be alright for some people, but i am heavily classic-centric in that i like to see a score with the instruments displayed rather than their articulaions. 'ahhh' i hear you say 'why don't you work in score page mode?'

 

well that's not always practical, and up until recently very slow, particularly on big scores. i mean VERY slow. also page mode is a bit crashy. they need to update it in a big way.

 

there is no harm at all in using metas, i have done it in the past and for some reason decided against it. i remember even trying to get text objects that i had written in such as "pont" to operate the key switch - though obviously that didn't work. the reason i might have had was consistency, with regards to NOT using metas since, for example i couldn't use them for stoccato. also i think it was because after inserting a trill, i would have visit the event editor anyway to insert a return to arco or whatever. for the limited times you do use a trill it didn't seem worth it.

 

that said, i think i will revisit it. at the very least, it would reduce work involved by a step wouldn't it?

 

the crecsendo thing is exactly what makes logic so amazing - it can be done, but honestly it is horrendously complex and unweildy, and fraught with limitations that make it impractical to use musically. but hats off to the creator of it because it is very impressive just from a 'can be done' point of view. i will email it(if i can find it) - you may want to put it up on the forum. i doubt whether the makers of it would mind since they posted it on the apple forum to begin with.

[camillo jr]

Rohan, you could use a multi-instrument to name the program change "arco", "pizz" and so on. You can still cable the single instrument before the multi if you want to be able to use all the additional parameters it has to offer. And that way you won't see the name of the articulation, but the name of the instrument.

 

In the case of the trill, you could not use any program change at all, but have Logic switch articulation as soon as you insert a trill on the score page.

 

Come to think of it, you could use all the trill signs to switch articulations, or any other sign you wish in your score editor, rather than program change.

 

David, is the idea here that one multi would be used for only one instrument group, like first violins, and all their articulations? I do a little bit of that but often use a multi for a group of instruments, like one EWSO will be wood winds, another brass and so on. Sometimes it's even more mixed up than that. The reason I ask is that, so far, I've had no need to use the score, I pretty much do it by ear but I'm wondering if this work method will cause problems down the line if I needed to be printing scores.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around much of the stuff you and Stevenson are discussing here because it's pretty new to me, like meta events, what are they? Right now, if I want a different articulation, I either just play it on a different sub channel or I copy notes from one sub channel to another. It sounds like what you are talking about is a way of making the articulations switch directly from the score?

 

When you refer to "the single" is that a subchannel? Sorry for all the questions, as I say, most of what you're talking about is brand new to me.

 

Camillo

[David Nahmani]

the problem with using the multi is that the articulations show up in view-instruments in the score editor. this might be alright for some people, but i am heavily classic-centric in that i like to see a score with the instruments displayed rather than their articulaions. 'ahhh' i hear you say 'why don't you work in score page mode?'

But then you can assign a name to your instrument in the instrument set window... ok one more step I guess... like this:

[David Nahmani]

Camillo, in that template the multi would only be used for the program change name (you can't customize program change names on a single instrument). So you don't even assign any sub-channel, and you use the multi for one instrument only. You could then expand the environment to work with a multi-channel instrument, but here Rohan is working with the EXS24, which is a mono-timbral instrument.

 

Meta events are like MIDI events except they are proprietary to Logic. When you insert a symbol in your score page, Logic creates a corresponding Meta Event in your MIDI Region. So my idea is to use that Meta event and transform it into an articulation switch. So yes, you can switch articulations on the EXS24 simply by inserting a certain symbol on your Score editor.

 

When I refer to the "single", I mean the "Instrument" object, as opposed to the "Multi-instrument" object.

[stevenson]

But then you can assign a name to your instrument in the instrument set window... ok one more step I guess... like this:

 

if you go to view in the score editor you will see an option "view instruments". if you are working with a score in linear view, then this will show you the names of your instruments on the left hand side. clicking on the instrument name is like clicking on the track in arrange, and will select all the regions on that track. this is very useful for making score subsets, such as parts for printing. (for another discussion).

 

however if you have a multi with articulations the instrument names come up with the articulation. that might be ok in smaller scores, but i found it very confusing, and in the end went back to using the single instruments and remembering the articulations for the GM names.

 

but, anyone reading this, bear in mind that i am very score-bound. i step-time virtually everything, and in this i suspect i might be a rarity. if you are used to using the arrnage, then using multi's make more sense because you will see the current articulation AND you can name the track with the instrument.

 

also, if you don't think you will be doing much printing of parts, then assigning midi channels to effect articualtion changes might be more efficient because you can do it quicly with selcting the notes and using a key command to shift the notes up and down the channels, AND if you want to get really clever you could use the colour codes in logic score to tell them apart. each midi channel can be assigned a colour etc etc.

 

you could exclusively use meta events (meta events are things like trills marks of expression such as forte and piano) which could be easily assigned to effect articulation changes. you might choose arbitary meta events and hide them using polyphonic score styles.

 

i went down the route i have and it works for me - though i would really like to be able to edit the single instruments so i get my articulation AND the name of the instrument in linear view in score. but the wonderful thing about logic is that you can customize it to best suit your working method.

[stevenson]

oh there is one more thing about the multi vs single instrument issue i touched on but need to be clearer about.

 

as your score develops and in the case of larger scores, you want to work on a section, then simply by selecting regions from the instruments you want to display as as a section - a subset of the score - then all you have to do is use the key command "create instrument set from selection". this will make up a score out of your section with the correct instrument names (the ones of your sinlge instruments) all set to go. i can't tell you how useful this is when creating parts for orchestral sessions. otherwise, with the multi, the names of the instruments will come as the articulation and you would have to rename them in the instrument set every time. too much a pain.

 

again - if you know you are only going to do this once then fine - but honestly, it is so much easier just to go - poof - instant score.

[David Nahmani]

Ah ok, now I understand why this might not be a great option for you.

 

I am looking at John Frizzel's environment as we speak, and he uses the score symbols to change the sounds, like I suggested. It's funny that this environment just ended up in my hands today, as we're discussing the topic!

 

He's got the whole crescendo signs actually creating crescendos... stuff like that, which I believe is what you described. I'm going to study it for a while, it's very exciting!

 

John uses the Score window exclusively to compose. From what I've heard he never opens a Matrix window and rarely goes in the Arrange window! I'll try to ask John's permission next time I see him to upload his environment here for you all to see/study.

 

But Rohan, I totally understand that if you have found an environment that works for you and integrates in your complete workflow (including printing parts), then you might want to stick to it. I find it very interesting to discuss all the different options, and also to see why they might work for some but not for others.

[stevenson]

But Rohan, I totally understand that if you have found an environment that works for you and integrates in your complete workflow (including printing parts), then you might want to stick to it. I find it very interesting to discuss all the different options, and also to see why they might work for some but not for others.

 

i too find it interesting. there are so many ways to skin a cat with logic...

 

and i doubt whether i have found the 'best' most efficient method anyway.

 

frizzel - yep that's the guy i was talking about. and you came across it by chance? pretty spooky. see if you can get it into a macro - i have never worked with macros personally, but i believe then it will appear as a one single unit which would make the environment much more orderly and copying and pasting easier. not to mention cabling.

[System6]

Hi,

 

I tried to download this file a few times today on G4, Mac OS 10.4.8,

and even though all 12 megabytes were downloaded, it failed

to unzip correctly.

 

Thanks

Sys6

[stevenson]

post to daivd who runs this site. he might be able to help.

[camillo jr]

Hi,

 

I tried to download this file a few times today on G4, Mac OS 10.4.8,

and even though all 12 megabytes were downloaded, it failed

to unzip correctly.

 

Thanks

Sys6

 

Maybe use Stuffit Expander instead?

[Les Beshears]

Rohan

 

I step write all composition, recently bought KHSO Emerald, and am learning to program exs24 with the objective to have an exs24 instrument (Violin) that is responsive to velocity changes and uses CC1 to change articulations. I couldn’t get your Articulation template to unzip correctly, but I’ve got your basic and full orchestra templates and after search/mining two forums and re reading the manual I think I’m beginning to understand articulations. I have a violin audio instrument “lesviolin”. Samples were multi loaded through the Zone Audio window and it has 2 groups of 20 zones each. Group 1 espf has all velocity ranges set to 1 – 127, and group “select by” parameter is set to CC1 =1. Group 2 pizzf has velocity range 1-127, and group “select by” set to CC1 =2 . When I program some test notes in a region and insert CC1 value 1 or 2 in the event editor it switches between expressive and pizzacato articulations. Thank You!!! It appears to be somewhat responsive to velocity but I haven’t incorporated velocity switching ranges yet. It appears the way to combine velocity switching with CC1 is to load additional groups of zones that blend with espf , set each group to a different velocity range and set CC1 = 1. Then do similar for pizzf and any other articulation desired. But when I do the math it seems that I could end up with what I suspect to be an outrageous number of groups and zones for 1 instrument ie. 20 zones X 10 velocity layers X 10 articulations is 2,000 zones and 100 groups. Is this reasonable?

Generally speaking, for a typical solo violin instrument

1. How many articulations do you find useful?

2. How many velocity ranges for each articulation?

3. How may total zones and groups are used configuring 1 instrument?

 

Thanx

 

Les

[stevenson]

1. How many articulations do you find useful?

2. How many velocity ranges for each articulation?

3. How may total zones and groups are used configuring 1 instrument?

 

yep you've got it.

 

the beauty with the esx is that yes you can set up your violin to have enormous numbers of zones and groups. once you've done it though, it's done. if you want more than one instance of the same violin the 2 differnet instruments will share samples!

 

setting up groups with differnet velocities is incredbly easy and quick.

 

open the instrumnet editor of the patch that came with your library. set in your KCs, 'select zones pointed to by group'. select the group or groups that you want to copy over to your home made instrument. hit the KC, copy, then paste into your new instrument.

 

then set the CC1 value. you can layer the velocities as much as you want.

 

but in answer to your question between 3 or 4. it's more though if i need them. i might have an espressivo patch at the lower end of the velocities and stay within it and use volume controllers to add expression and swells and so forth. then for the last 7 or 8 velocity levels 166-127 i might have something with a really harsh attack. using the layer crossfade means this comes in gradually and is only fully present right at the highest velocities.

 

my biggest instrument is one of my violin patches and one of my brass patches with all sorts of extended techniques, or various types performance styles. you can have as many as you want, but the more you have the more there is to remember. you should have as many velocity layers as you have realistic samples for, but in reality there are rarely more than 3.

 

for example i blend 3 differnet libraries in one of my arco violins esx instruments. in order to smooth out the joins, you set the crossfade level on the esx interface. you might also have to fiddle with their output volumes in the groups to make sure that you have the right volume curve up the velocity scale. the libraries aren't always at the same level.

 

some stuff that i did using these homemade instruments was on TV last night here in the UK. both advertisements and a TV drama. even to my highly critical ears i thought they were convincing.

 

one other thought. you can use the crossfade with solo instruments but it isn't quite as effective, because you are in effect suddenly playing 2 instruments. it does work though - esp if there is no vibrato and if you don't have the crossfade value too big.

[Les Beshears]

Rohan

 

Thank you so much for taking time from you busy schedule to respond. It seems like every time I read one of your post another light goes on. Looks like I’ve got a new homework assignment, XFade and the Modulation Matrix. I’ll go review that Cross Fade thread ISchwartz recently did on the apple forum. I also ordered the tutorials on exs24 and the environment from macprovideo. Perhaps soon I will understand the routing in your Full Orchestra Template.

 

Thanx again!!

 

Les Beshears

[Les Beshears]

Hi Rohan

 

So much to learn! I'm looking around at sample libraries in exs format that can be used to expand my homemade instruments. I already have KHSO Emerald for Exs and Jam Pack #4. Looks like Vienna Pro and Horizon series are in Exs MkII format but Opus 1 doesn't appear to be available and the Orchestral Cube is kinda pricey. I have the IK version of Miroslav but it comes in Sample Tank Player format and I don't believe it will mix and match. Ilio.com has the origional version of Miroslav in various formats Kurtzweil, Roland, Sample cell, Gigasampler, EMU and Akai.

 

What format did your Miraslav come in and were there any conversion problems?

Is Akai the best format to convert Miroslav from?

Will the Vienna Pro or Horizon series Exs MKII format load up the way we discussed are do they require the Performance tool or any special preperation? (Hammered into shape?)

 

 

 

Best regards

 

Les

 

PS Did you get all settled in after your move?