Switching Articulations using Program Changes

[stevenson]

settled in after my move? i wish....renovation hell at the moment....

 

ok - miroslav is probably the most musical of all the libraries i have heard. better even than VSL although VSL sounds like it was recorded with the most superior equipment.

 

you can import gigasampler or akai, but either way you are going to have a lot of frigging around to get them to work really well. for example, the miroslav libraries don't have the loop info in them so you are going to have to set that up in the esx yourself. expect to spend about a week building the library and tweaking the loops etc. don't forget seidlecek advanced orchestra. some of the samples in there are fantastic - just as some are completely unusable.

 

i got my miroslav in akai format and there were glitches in some samples.

 

If you get esx versions of the vienna stuff, you can load it up and copy and paste into your own instruments no problem at all. they come with non performance tool versions which you might want to consider because the performance tool stuff takes ages to load.

 

mix and match your libaries as much as you can or feel the need. if you have some sounds in a non-esx format you can still use them, but it might take a little environment trickery to route the data to take advantage of those sounds. at least you can.

[Les Beshears]

Thanx for the infor Rohan

 

"if you have some sounds in a non-exs format you can still use them, but it might take a little environment tirckery"

 

I'm starting to get familiar with the environment. That sounds like a reasonable challenge to take on. I have Non-Exs sounds that switch on Midi channel which is a different system than using CC1. I like the simplicity of using CC1. Do you know anyone thats tried converting non-exs samples with Redmatica Autosampler? Or am I reading too much into the promo literature that says " Through the use of a suited host program as Logic, it’s also possible to sample virtual instruments complete of all their host fx processing." I was thinking of getting EXS Manager and Keymap to simplify things, so perhaps I might as well get the Compendium that includes Autosampler.

 

Les

[stevenson]

i tell you what i have heard that autosampler is absolutely amazing. i have heard nothing but gushing about it. i am tempted to get it for a little sampling job i want to take on. if you do go for it i would be deeply interested to know how you got on.

[compilotrc]

Rohan,

 

Like les, I'm trying to get my mind around your score/environment template and use of exs24. I'm curious however, how do you address phasing of samples during section unisons or divisi's that move in and out of unison lines?

 

Thanks,

 

Ray

[stevenson]

very simple. different samples.

 

if you want unison effect say in the horns, you should use a unison sample. i often patch in epic horns in the horn line. if you want to prevent the 2nd line from playing in a horn system (horns 1/3 and 2/4), you can easily set the paramters in arrange to limit the velocity range. set it to 2 to 127 and then set all the notes on the second system to velocity 0, and the notes won't play.

 

this is to make the visual representation match the one you are hearing - ie the top line of the system is playing epic horns (horns 1/3) but the bottom one is not really playing although it is displayed as you would put it in front of a real band.

 

you could leave the solo horn on the 2nd line, but i sometimes have intonation issues and prefer it without.

 

in those rare cases where you do not want to bother with this approach, try putting a sample delay plug-in on the audio instrument and set it to a value that won't make it sound late but will avoid cancellation. i would suggest around 50 samples or so.

[compilotrc]

i often patch in epic horns in the horn line. if you want to prevent the 2nd line from playing in a horn system (horns 1/3 and 2/4), you can easily set the paramters in arrange to limit the velocity range. set it to 2 to 127 and then set all the notes on the second system to velocity 0, and the notes won't play.

 

Thanks so much. I had an idea this was how it was done but just wanted to be sure.

 

2nd question while I have your attention. How do you handle crescendos (dims.), do you use the Arrange and automate them? or do you use hyperdraw? or something else entirely?

 

Thanks again.

 

-Ray

[stevenson]

it depends.

 

i use hyperdraw in midi regions rather than automation so that it is easier to move them around or copy them.

 

in general i bus things so:

- strings sent to busses for 'hi strings' and 'lo strings'...

- which are then bussed to strings. they have their own ouputs

- likewise wind, brass and percussion. each section their own bus.

- piano and harp will be on their own busses because they are further forward in the orchestra.

 

this gives speed and flexibility. i hyperdraw into objects on the busses depending on whether i want the whole section observing dynamics or just upper or lower. i then hyperdraw individual lines if necessary as well.

 

- if the music has a stream of notes i cresc/dim with velocity.

- it is also possible to use mod wheel to blend samples to xfade between samples for a true crescendo effect. this is of limited usefulness and for the fiddliness involved i rarely do this. very often simply a volume cresc/dim is sufficient.

- you can also automate (using volume data that has been converted by a transformer) hi- mid freq pass (leave the very top freqs) to emulate the effect of crescendo. in this case you use loud samples and reduce the high mids to produce the effect of the same instrument being played softly. this is very effective.

- finally for big surges i will use samples of actual crescendi or decrescendi (usually the former) in the either of 2 ways:

- as a sample set within the esx that i choose with a programme change.

- or with the actual samples as audio files played on an audio track, tuned to the notes i need them to be. the reason i do it this way is because midi triggers by note on, meaning you have no way of controlling which part of the sample you are using without editing the instrument each time through trial and error. the best way is simply to line them up on audio tracks.

[compilotrc]

Rohan,

 

Thanks again for taking time to answer my questions, your insight is most valuable.

 

- or with the actual samples as audio files played on an audio track, tuned to the notes i need them to be. the reason i do it this way is because midi triggers by note on, meaning you have no way of controlling which part of the sample you are using without editing the instrument each time through trial and error. the best way is simply to line them up on audio tracks.

 

Is this in reference to those specific cresendi/dim samples? Because the end time of the sample is fixed and the tempo of the composition may not be the same. So by using the audio track you can then align the samples to the score most accurately, independent of the MIDI note on trigger. I find this particularly true with suspended cymbal swells.

 

Next question if you don't mind. Do you strictly compose within the Score Editor? or use a combination of all editors, utilizing whichever is best suited for the task? I find that I work very well within the Arrange but would love to integrate the Score Editor as you have so I can eliminate the need to export my work as a Standard MIDI File to Sibelius, then decode all of the various tracks into a standard score (very time consuming).

 

Thanks,

 

-Ray

[stevenson]

Is this in reference to those specific cresendi/dim samples? Because the end time of the sample is fixed and the tempo of the composition may not be the same. So by using the audio track you can then align the samples to the score most accurately, independent of the MIDI note on trigger. I find this particularly true with suspended cymbal swells.

 

yes. you are lining up the ends of audio files - it is just easier to work with (apart from having to make copies and tune them).

 

i use all the editors constantly within logic although on an orchestral score my base window is the score window. the whole power and beauty of scoring with logic is the various ways it is possible to manipualte data owing to the different windows. this is why it is much faster and easier to score in logic than the dedicated editors. export to them and finalize the score for sure, at least while logics score facility is so limited - although even then it is not so limited you can't make a pretty decent looking score with it.

[compilotrc]

Terrific.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

 

-Ray

[rjtemple]

I'm switching from DP to Logic... so please forgive me if I'm missing something elementary, but when I play this example, it seems to be playing multiple samples at once... and the harmonics don't play at all. The trill seems to work....

 

Richard

[stevenson]

I'm switching from DP to Logic... so please forgive me if I'm missing something elementary, but when I play this example, it seems to be playing multiple samples at once... and the harmonics don't play at all. The trill seems to work....

 

Richard

 

hmm shouldn't do although this did occur to me once before. if i remember rightly its because the esx instrument managed to ungroup itself...

 

check to make sure that all the articualtions within the esx instrument (esx instrument editor) are grouped to their articulations. then it should work.

 

i don't really know how these things happen....