Pro Tools style Audio Editer

[davidpye]

Funny thing is.... Propellerheads have just released info about their new DAW "Record" and the mixer, although maybe not modelled upon is clearly STOLEN from a an SSL. That is the exact layout of series E channel.

 

http://www.sonicftp.com/news/images/record/RecordMixingConsole.png

[cymbaline]

wow, it does look like an SSL channel...even the pots are the same! I dont know about this program, is it a DAW for recording or a sequencer, or both? Do you think that maybe its a futile effort for Propellarhead to try to compete with PT, Logic, MOTU, Cubase, Ableton, and Sonar? I'd say so...that seems like a bit too many as it is!

[bmdaugherty]

This ought to detract from the increasing "Logic vs. PT" vibe happening in this conversation...

 

 

...this technology of so called DAWS has been nothing but a race to re build a virtual reality of what is a conventional recording studio, Pro Tools is just that...

 

...and most important of all, clean, smooth faders.

 

Pro Tools was and still is the only DAW out there at the moment who provides this.

 

Ever heard of Nuendo?

 

Here's some food for thought.

 

I picked up a copy a couple months back. Talk about having everything a virtual console has... Longer software fader than PT with fader resolution to the HUNDREDTH of a dB (.01), input gain (+/- 24dB) and phase flip on every channel (pre-insert), pre and POST fader inserts, pre/post fader sends with send panning, delay compensation, side-chain support, console-esque automation system with preview mode (automation takes), and a control room section offering after fader listen (solo-in-place) and cue sends with "copy current mix to cue send" which allows you to instantly mirror your mix to up to 4 cue channels on a channel by channel, cue by cue basis, allowing a completely independent mix on each cue send using your current mix as a starting point. Also you have independent control over click level and PAN for each cue send and the control room, and the click never touches your mix bus so you can toggle the click track without affecting layback. Plus N4 has comprehensive, customizable, LABELED meters. Something which even PTHD somehow lacks.

 

Editing is also IMO easier and more intuitive in Nuendo. You have region gain handles (+/-24dB) for every region. You also have region envelope which is percentage based and is drawn on the region. You also have fade handles at the beginning and end of every region allowing fades which can be completely customized upon double-click. Oh and THE WAVEFORM UPDATES IN REAL TIME SHOWING FADES AND ENVELOPE CHANGES AS I DRAW THEM. You only really need 2 tools to do everything. The range tool highlights a span of time and the select too does most everything else (as far as editing). There's also a mute tool like in logic which I use a fair amount so I guess that makes 3.

 

As someone who used a PTHD rig every day for 8 semesters plus summers and actual jobs, I gotta say that PT is very lacking in some major areas like gain structure and metering. Also, I would never consider buying a PTHD rig at this point. Why would I put DSP chips that were designed in 2002 into an 8 core macpro designed in 2008? Remember, when the HD cards were designed, we all still had G4s... It takes 4 Accel cards to run the same number of altiverbs as I can run natively no sweat on my MP at 96kHz. I can't even fit that many cards in there.

 

My point here is that one should examine all the options before doing anything. Sometimes it takes just jumping in and leaning on the platform. Ya know, learning it in the heat of the moment. Using this method, you really see what each program has to offer. I mean it took me 3 years to realize that I hate PT and 2 years to ditch Logic as my main DAW...

 

Technology changes so rapidly that hardware independence in this day and age is of utmost importance to me as I am only beginning to really invest in my trade.

 

As cymbaline pointed out there are alot of players. Presonus and Propellerhead are just entering the DAW market to add to the list, and then you have all of the linux DAWS and stuff like Pyramix and Sadie. HOWEVER, I personally enjoy the variety and appreciate having choices. It leads to stiffer competition and better innovation in our industry. All this talk about comparing L8 and PT, but you forget that there over a dozen more.

 

Good luck finding what's right for your workflow. I thought PT was da bomb for a long, long time.

 

Peace,

Brian

[bdtunes]

Not only was the the ProControl fader NOT designed after an SSL, it incrementally does NOT have the resolution of a P&G fader. To make matters worse, when PT introduced the ICON consoles, they showcased greater gain structures in their units, relative to the software; not too many people know that PT did NOT increase the levels of incremental volume 'steps' available to the fader in conjunction with the new gain structures. So, in actuality - especially when writing automation - an operator has LESS definition/steps available for volume pushes on a fader, given the higher gain structure. Greater care must be given mixing on these consoles because the fader's moves are exponential, after unity.

 

I know this is a Logic forum, but clarity was in desperate need here.

 

I'd like to get the raw data on what the available track resolution is for Logic in regards to its unity and above gain structure. Shedding light on this will expose quite a bit about how pro Logic really is.

 

Again the relationship here deals with the amount of available headroom on a track and the ACTUAL number of steps available to the fader.

[davidpye]

Thank you very very much for that information. Much appreciated.

[bdtunes]

Thank you very very much for that information. Much appreciated.

 

You are very much welcome. All the best.

[tonzilla]

i agree with the other PT expatriates. i'm trying to force myself to get fast with all the tool switching but i wish i could just cut and paste like in PT. the scissors and the overlap thing is maddening. coming from PT editing where you just select, copy, & paste replacing the section of the region underneath. is there any way to set up logic so you can edit in this style??

[fader8]

When we are in 64bit i think you will notice a significant difference,

In what, sound quality? Nope. You would notice things running a bit more sluggish though, particularly as you add busses. If you want better quality, buy better mics, preamps and A-D's, and hire better musicians.

 

I'd like to get the raw data on what the available track resolution is for Logic in regards to its unity and above gain structure. Shedding light on this will expose quite a bit about how pro Logic really is.

 

Again the relationship here deals with the amount of available headroom on a track and the ACTUAL number of steps available to the fader.

 

OK, you can see for yourself what Logic's automation can do by creating a node of 0dB at bar 1 and a node of +6dB at bar 100. If you open the automation event list it clearly shows 16 LSB events for each MSB, although the LSB value itself isn't shown. (It used to be visible in LP7, btw).

 

So, from 0 to +6 we have the maximum resolution available of 592 points, (out of the 2048 steps total).

 

Using the onscreen faders and pushing as slow as you can in write or latch mode, we can only achieve about two LSB steps per MSB, if you're really careful and have high screen resolution and a good mouse. So that's about 75 steps.

 

Pushing really slow on my P&G Logic Control fader, I can get 16 LSBs per MSB if I'm really, really careful, but it's more like 10-14 mostly. So realistically it's about 440 steps available (out of 592 "possible").

 

That what you were looking for, bd?

[davidpye]

i agree with the other PT expatriates. i'm trying to force myself to get fast with all the tool switching but i wish i could just cut and paste like in PT. the scissors and the overlap thing is maddening. coming from PT editing where you just select, copy, & paste replacing the section of the region underneath. is there any way to set up logic so you can edit in this style??

 

Switch your drag mode to "No Overlap", the pull down menu is on the top right corner of the arrange window. That will stop the overlapping issue.

 

Then to avoid using the scissors and cut, copy, etc etc like Protools, use the marquee tool, it'll allow you to make selection in the same way as protools.

[slamthecrank]

i agree with the other PT expatriates. i'm trying to force myself to get fast with all the tool switching but i wish i could just cut and paste like in PT. the scissors and the overlap thing is maddening. coming from PT editing where you just select, copy, & paste replacing the section of the region underneath. is there any way to set up logic so you can edit in this style??

 

Switch your drag mode to "No Overlap", the pull down menu is on the top right corner of the arrange window. That will stop the overlapping issue.

 

Then to avoid using the scissors and cut, copy, etc etc like Protools, use the marquee tool, it'll allow you to make selection in the same way as protools.

 

+1

[tonzilla]

Switch your drag mode to "No Overlap", the pull down menu is on the top right corner of the arrange window. That will stop the overlapping issue.

 

Then to avoid using the scissors and cut, copy, etc etc like Protools, use the marquee tool, it'll allow you to make selection in the same way as protools.

 

 

 

 

thanks, this is the way i have been working but i guess i've was hoping for a way to paste from the clipboard on top of a region with out it still being underneath. no overlap doesn't seem to solve this. like replace mode or something. the only way around i can find is by option dragging in stead of pasting.

[bmdaugherty]

yes for me "no overlap" is more like "mostly no overlap". If i punch out in replace mode on top of an already existing region, there is a tiny overlap. If I paste, overlap. If I flatten a comp that butts up against another region, overlap.

 

Option drag is how it has to be done. Now if only you could see the waveform while dragging without hitting the edge of the window first.

[tonzilla]

thanks, that'll have to do then. a 24"screen helps.