Best way to A-B in Logic?

[shivermetimbers]

 

Which KC? Not sure what you're getting at here -- how would you capture the settings of each audio channel and cause that to program your sysex thingees?

 

I don't really know yet, I am hoping it (whatever 'it' is) can capture the mixer settings without having to use millions of environment faders.

 

The SX (sysex) set up already worked like a preset. There is confusion as to whether the SX event list needs to be highlighted to work, or if the Values need to be something specific... still a bit confusing.

 

This is getting scary.

 

 

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mHrj5NNbass/SWt9xT3HqyI/AAAAAAAABUs/PHjPbypWxjs/s400/scared-cat-cartoon-kitty-frightened-of-fat-lady-from-behind.jpg

[shivermetimbers]

I.E. whatever the faders, pans, bus sends, FX settings, etc... all gets recorded as a snapshot.

Definitely!

I did such experiments long time ago during L5 so I could created channel strip header consoles which can control CS objects inc. all parameters you

say.

The snap shot automation can be controlled via Program changes, CC#, Key switching etc... Let's say that you can send 1200 parameters per key switch...

I is no idea - it is complete Environment working project designed in small macro tool.

It was designed as template using some additional ID transformers per track cause some specific CS ch. behavior.

As Ski focused, the new dynamic CS process is a problem for the templates so I just wonder if my tool is still usable... ?

 

Ivan,

 

This need to be live and not thru track/region automation. Free from play mode.

 

Set up everything in the mixer, press a button to capture ALL settings.

Save as Reference setting 1.

 

Make more changes to mixer, press button, save as Ref setting 2.

 

Etc...

 

Press a different button to load presets 1, 2 or 50.

 

We cannot fail, we musn't ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.calebtobyansen.info/images/stories/captain_pugwash/pic_5.jpg

[ski]

 

So here are my lessons for today:

 

A) sysex faders can output series of controller messages (I had noooooooo idea!!), and.....

 

B) that channel strips will respond to CC3 and 9 for solo and mute (respectively) as well as Fader3 and 9.

 

Maybe it's time for me to learn more stuff today, but AFAIA the only way you can derive the current settings of a channel strip (and other objects) is to bang! them. No, shiv, not that kind of bang... Conjures up terrible thoughts, actually... I can see the headlines now: "Logic Loser Electrocuted in Bizarre Privates-to-USB Connectivity Attempt".

 

Scandalous!

Edited June 24, 2009 by ski

[ski]

Set up everything in the mixer, press a button to capture ALL settings.

Save as Reference setting 1.

 

Make more changes to mixer, press button, save as Ref setting 2.

 

I have exactly that kind of thing working right now using a different method from you. But if you can find a way to bang! a channel strip and get all that info stored in a sysex fader, I'll build the system to collect the data and recall it. Deal?

Edited June 24, 2009 by ski

[shivermetimbers]

 

B) that channel strips will respond to CC3 and 9 for solo and mute (respectively) as well as Fader3 and 9.

 

 

Funny thing is the Mute/solo SYSEX event list has to have the values highlighted for it to work (I think).

[ski]

Running out the door for now. But real quick...

 

Scandor, I think it would be easier to understand what you've done if you could post your environment.

 

Shiv, I dunno what to say... you're a funny f'kin guy LOLOL.

 

Thanks to both of you for all of the insights today. Good one!

[shivermetimbers]

Set up everything in the mixer, press a button to capture ALL settings.

Save as Reference setting 1.

 

Make more changes to mixer, press button, save as Ref setting 2.

 

I have exactly that kind of thing working right now using a different method from you. But if you can find a way to bang! a channel strip and get all that info stored in a sysex fader, I'll build the system to collect the data and recall it. Deal?

 

Otay Pankey!!!

[slamthecrank]

Well... I've read through this thread, and I now FULLY admit that

 

the environment scares the Bejeezus out of me.

 

but, still, I am willing to learn.

[shivermetimbers]

Well... I've read through this thread, and I now FULLY admit that

 

the environment scares the Bejeezus out of me.

 

but, still, I am willing to learn.

 

http://kyrio.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/prepare.jpg

[ckbarlow]

I suggest you never route anything to Output 1-2, except a bus you have created as a Mix Bus and your reference track.

 

Route everything else to the Mix Bus and insert all your output plug-ins here, not in Output 1-2.

 

Am I wrong, or is that the simplest yet?

[David Nahmani]

Am I wrong, or is that the simplest yet?

 

That's only one step to get there - most of the solutions (all?) need that step. Then you need an easy way to A/B between the two audio streams.

[ckbarlow]

Am I wrong, or is that the simplest yet?

 

That's only one step to get there - most of the solutions (all?) need that step. Then you need an easy way to A/B between the two audio streams.

 

Oh. I thought many of the proposed solutions allowed you to have your inserts on Output 1-2 because part of the "magic" was that it bypassed all O1-2 inserts with a click.

 

Using a mix bus obviates that magic, doesn't it? I guess I'm missing something. (I'm not including hardware control of the M/S buttons as part of the solution; that doesn't worry me much. Just the insta-bypass.)

[David Nahmani]

Well so you've separated your audio into two streams - now how do you A/B them? That's the whole point of this thread, finding a way to A/B two streams. Separating them into two bus is just part of the equation.

 

I suppose the easy answer is to Option-click each channel strip's Solo button.

 

Personally I like to close my eyes a lot when doing critical listening, including A/B-ing two sources. So I prefer having one single toggle button.

[ckbarlow]

Yep, I had caught on that A/B-ing is the point. Easy, tiger.

 

I started by looking at this thread, where there's no mention of a separate mix bus.

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=35757

 

That thread linked to this one, and from the original perspective, the mix bus seemed novel (and simple).

[David Nahmani]

Yep, I had caught on that A/B-ing is the point. Easy, tiger.

I'm easy as Friday morning! - but I still believe you're missing the point of this thread: A/Bing two audio sources is not the same as bypassing plug-ins on the master output (well unless, obviously, you're simply trying to compare a mix with and without the plug-ins on the master output).

 

I started by looking at this thread, where there's no mention of a separate mix bus.

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=35757

 

That thread linked to this one, and from the original perspective, the mix bus seemed novel (and simple).

 

If you read the OP's post in this thread, you'll see why the solution you linked won't work here.

[ckbarlow]

No, I just mean that the mix bus (rather than having inserts on o1-2) gets you around having to bypass effects to hear your ref track unadulterated.

 

wow.

[David Nahmani]

No, I just mean that the mix bus (rather than having inserts on o1-2) gets you around having to bypass effects to hear your ref track unadulterated.

 

wow.

 

AAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

 

[slapping both hands on forehead]

 

Note to self: never try to answer threads BEFORE my morning coffee.

 

[ckbarlow]

AAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

 

[slapping both hands on forehead]

 

Note to self: never try to answer threads BEFORE my morning coffee.

 

 

I'm sorry, it's mostly my doing because I was so eager to get to "the answer" (and of course there are many) that I didn't start at the beginning. That's my bad. And I started off by restating something obvious, which was more conversational than constructive.

 

Moving on...

 

I want exactly that: to have a single reference track to which to compare my in-progress project, without the ref going through any inserts. I have to get this right because I'm just *done* with translation issues related to small room & small speakers (I do a lot of music for theater - big spaces with big speakers), and A-B-ing with a trusted ref track is one tool in the kit to fix that. Just one tool but a good one, and a best practice for any genre.

 

So I will read start to finish and shut the hell up until I have either a contribution or a question!

 

cheers,

ck

[David Nahmani]

ck, you should find all the info you need in this thread. If any of it needs clarifying do not hesitate.

[shivermetimbers]

I'm sorry, it's mostly my doing because I was so eager to get to "the answer" (and of course there are many) that I didn't start at the beginning. That's my bad. And I started off by restating something obvious, which was more conversational than constructive.

 

Moving on...

 

I want exactly that: to have a single reference track to which to compare my in-progress project, without the ref going through any inserts. I have to get this right because I'm just *done* with translation issues related to small room & small speakers (I do a lot of music for theater - big spaces with big speakers), and A-B-ing with a trusted ref track is one tool in the kit to fix that. Just one tool but a good one, and a best practice for any genre.

 

So I will read start to finish and shut the hell up until I have either a contribution or a question!

 

cheers,

ck

 

Then yes, it is the simplest way.

 

Your REF TRK is trk1 with no inserts and output to the main OUT 1-2.

The rest of the mix is sent to a Sub/Aux. If you want the output channel mastering presets, you can copy them over to the Sub/Aux and then reset the main outs to no inserts.

 

Now all you need do to compare is OPT click the solo buttons of the REF trk and the SUB/Aux channel.

[ckbarlow]

 

Then yes, it is the simplest way.

 

Your REF TRK is trk1 with no inserts and output to the main OUT 1-2.

The rest of the mix is sent to a Sub/Aux. If you want the output channel mastering presets, you can copy them over to the Sub/Aux and then reset the main outs to no inserts.

 

Now all you need do to compare is OPT click the solo buttons of the REF trk and the SUB/Aux channel.

 

Thanks, Shiv. I've just read the entire thread and to be honest, after a while it becomes difficult to tell where the original problem gets solved, and where a new discussion (that goes beyond the original problem) starts.

 

So I'm just going to ask the idiot question: Was there at any point a single download that:

• 
  - provided a single-button solution (I'll worry about hardware control later)
  - addressed the scenario of a single reference track and multiple in-progress tracks
  - bypassed any FX/preset on Output 1-2 (in case I want to be lazy and blow off routing all project tracks to a mix bus)?

 

Thanks for your patience.

[David Nahmani]

What's wrong with the Shive's solution in the link you posted yourself? Seems to answer all your requests?

[ckbarlow]

This one:

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=35757

 

?

 

I thought you said it didn't address all of those things, and that's why this second thread existed. I guess I'm just not on all cylinders today.

[David Nahmani]

No it's not you, it's me.

 

Yes, that one. The first time, I was just reading quickly and thought it only bypassed all fx on the stereo out - but I looked at it closely again, seems like it's the answer you're looking for. Give it a try!

[ckbarlow]

No it's not you, it's me.

 

Yes, that one. The first time, I was just reading quickly and thought it only bypassed all fx on the stereo out - but I looked at it closely again, seems like it's the answer you're looking for. Give it a try!

 

 

eeee, yi yi!!! (as we say in NM) why i oughtta...

 

just kidding.

 

SHEW. I really, completely thought I was losing my mind. Thank you. I will try it, likely while on a plane later today. Too many things on my mind, maybe!

[David Nahmani]

Let me know if you need any further confusion ... huuh.... err.. . help that is.

[buzwah]

I just want to say thank you to Ski and his A-B solution. I downloaded it dropped the Compare object into my environment , cabled it to my reference channel & it does what is needed. Simple and effective.

[ski]

Thanks for the thanks, buzwah. In other words, "you're welcome!"

 

[buzwah]

Ski while I have your attention, could you suggest a way of having that Compare button available on the Arrange page. What I've done is simply reduce the size of the Environment window as close to the Compare object and choose Frameless floating window and placed it anywhere on the Arrange window. The only problem I have with that is sometimes while moving around the window zooming and moving regions etc sometimes the Compare gets in the way & I inadvertently change the look of it and have to go back to the Environment and set it up visually again. Is there a way of having just a button appear?

[ski]

Sure, why not!

 

Attached is a new version. Here's how it works:

 

I created a 'dummy' channel strip called "Compare". It's assigned it to a track in the arrange page. Its SOLO button is used to make the comparison between "A" (production) and hear "B" (the reference you're comparing it with).

 

The A/B button still exists in the Environment, though I removed the floating Environment window because I think this is a more convenient approach.

 

Here's how it works:

 

• No Environment cabling required

• Assign your reference track to any channel except #255 (which shouldn't be too hard to avoid LOL!)

In this example, track/channel 1 is used for the comparison track ("B").

• Assign the output of that channel to BUS 64 (this is crucial). Note how track 1 is assigned to Bus 64 in the screenshot.

• With the Compare channel assigned to a track in the Arrange page, click its solo button in the Inspector to toggle between "A" and "B".

• Alternatively, with the Mixer window open and the Compare channel visible, toggle solo from there.

 

You can create as many duplicates of the Compare track as you like. For example, if you have a high track count, create two additional tracks assigned to Compare. Place one at the top of the track list, one in the middle, and one at the bottom. This will reduce the amount of scrolling you have to do to access it.

 

If you have a control surface (I have an MC Mix, so I'll describe how its used) you can go into the EuControl Settings > Assign Tab and 'hard assign' one of the faders to be "Compare". Let's say you assign fader #8 to it. This way your Compare button (solo button) will always be present on the control surface, and not disappear when you switch banks.

 

I think this approach is about as simple as it gets. Post back if you want details on how to add this to an existing song.

 

EDIT: This version was made on Logic 9.0.0. For a version that may import better to Logic 8.0.2 songs, see my post below. All of the same info from this post will apply to that version.

A-B-er SKI Rev 2.1.logic.zip

Edited October 24, 2009 by ski