peachboy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Can anyone help me identify this scale / mode? G, #G, #A, B, #C, D, E, F,G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Looks unfamiliar. Note that the intervals are h-w-h-w-h-w-h-w, regular. So it has three tonalities/symmetries, not unlike a diminished(7) chord - and as luck will have it, two of the three dim chords are in this scale, the third is completely outside it. I'ld opt for it being called the diminished scale. Rare, like the dim chord... There are only three of 'm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Got it - octatonic scale. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It is the diminished scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 looks like it's in the key of Eb...does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 looks like it's in the key of Eb...does anyone know? The symmetry on a dim scale is 4 fold, so it really doesn't have just one key, it has four! But there's no Eb in this one, so that's not one of the four here: G, A#, C# or E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 The symmetry on a dim scale is 4 fold, so it really doesn't have just one key, it has four! But there's no Eb in this one, so that's not one of the four here: G, A#, C# or E. To make things more confusing you could also force the use of an A, C, D# or F# root note (respectively) to make a 7th chord with a nice twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 looks like it's in the key of Eb...does anyone know? The symmetry on a dim scale is 4 fold, so it really doesn't have just one key, it has four! But there's no Eb in this one, so that's not one of the four here: G, A#, C# or E. So it's closer to Bb or Db? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 So it's closer to Bb or Db? It's a bit like asking what key the chromatic scale is in - in essence it's not closer to either Bb or Db, but at the same time, it depends what you do with it and where you start off etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ok OP so what is it close too. I'm still learning music theory so try not to beat around the bush please. FOR MODES yeah it depends on where you start but ovarall it has to be in some kind of key or close to a key. So what key is this in did you figure it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 but ovarall it has to be in some kind of key or close to a key No. It doesn't. In this case, G diminished is simply G diminished. There is no key of G diminished, it's just G diminished. If you have a series of notes that starts on G, goes off using notes of that scale, but repeatedly or consistently returns to G, then the key center would (likely) be G, and the key could be considered G minor but ONLY if there's emphasis placed on the minor third from G to Bb (A#). But if the notes and the accompaniment strongly suggest G diminished, then the passage can analyzed as G diminished. That's it, just "G diminished". But if you were to repeatedly play this pattern: G, G#, A#, G# up and down, over and over, you're suggesting something built from the Locrian mode. Still, it all depends on what else is going on musically. Might not be Locrian at all. Now, play this pattern repeatedly: G#, G, A#, G. That could suggest G# (Ab) major, but in what context? What's the chord or other accompaniment underneath it? That melody could be part of something that resolves to C major, C minor, or something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ah I see. but then again you can just play this in the key of Gmin or Ab major in general. But I see what you're saying by playing it in a certain mode of the key then it change weather or not you're playing the notes in the scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octatonic_scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Yes, context is everything. Actually, you could indeed play G diminished over G minor. Anything's legal, as long as it sounds good to you, the composer. Try this: Play a sustained G minor chord in the left hand (G2, Bb2, D3). On top, improvise a melody using just the first 5 notes of this G diminished scale. You'll find that you can get some wonderful tensions when you play the G# (it wants to resolve to the G or the Bb). The B creates a major/minor thing that wants to resolve to the Bb. Finally, the C# wants to resolve to the D. Oh, and I said "this G diminished scale" because there are two! G Ab Bb B C# D E F ...and... G A Bb C Db Eb E F# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 All those tritones!! That scale is the devil's work, I tell ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Dim chords are awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Dim chords are awesome! Another cool thing I've just discovered about diminished chords: Take any note in a diminished chord, move it up a semi-tone and make a minor or major chord out of this new note using the note as the tonic. Instant resolution! Works with ANY note. Guaranteed! (or your money back) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Not quite what I meant. That's simply tranposing a dim chord up. What I'm saying is if you just take one note from a dim chord, transpose it up a semitone, and then use it as the basis of a new chord (works with both major or minor).....then the result is the resolution of the original dim chord. For example: Imagine the following dim chord: C, D#, F#, A. You can take the C transpose it up to C# and have either C# major or C# minor. OR.... You could take the D# and resolve to an E Minor / Major. F# to a G... etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Isn't that because people generally hear diminished chords used as a seventh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 *shrugs* I don't know. Why.......? ....can you resolve 7th chords in the same way then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Not quite what I meant. That's simply tranposing a dim chord up. What I'm saying is if you just take one note from a dim chord, transpose it up a semitone, and then use it as the basis of a new chord (works with both major or minor).....then the result is the resolution of the original dim chord. For example: Imagine the following dim chord: C, D#, F#, A. You can take the C transpose it up to C# and have either C# major or C# minor. OR.... You could take the D# and resolve to an E Minor / Major. F# to a G... etc I know it is not what you meant, it was not meant to illustrate your discovery, just another example of the use of these fourdimensional harmonic wormholes. Blackbird learns to see, learns to fly. Never solving dim song: And guys... all these harmonic possibilities are inherent to the fourfold symmetry of the dim chord. F#dim-D7-G F#dim-B7-E F#dim-G#7-C# F#dim-F7-Bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Not quite what I meant. That's simply tranposing a dim chord up. What I'm saying is if you just take one note from a dim chord, transpose it up a semitone, and then use it as the basis of a new chord (works with both major or minor).....then the result is the resolution of the original dim chord. For example: Imagine the following dim chord: C, D#, F#, A. You can take the C transpose it up to C# and have either C# major or C# minor. OR.... You could take the D# and resolve to an E Minor / Major. F# to a G... etc Not sure what you mean here..... moving any one note in a diminished chord up a semitone just changes it into a half diminished chord (AKA "minor seventh flat 5" in jazz terms), not strictly a major or minor chord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Never solving dim song: Eric, do you mean a diminished chord that never resolves?? I'm not hearing that as a diminished chord song but rather a C major song with a lot of F#s in the mix.... IE, a song in the Lydian mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 C D# F# A (Cº chord) ================= C D# G A = m6 C E F# A over D = D9 C E F# A over G# = G#7 +5,b9 or Ab7 +5,b9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachboy Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Not sure what you mean here..... moving any one note in a diminished chord up a semitone just changes it into a half diminished chord (AKA "minor seventh flat 5" in jazz terms), not strictly a major or minor chord. I'm talking about the building of a new chord using the transposed note as as reference point. AKA: Discard the original diminished chord, and build a new major or minor chord from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 @ Camillo: No, it doesn't resolve, since it's only C and Cdim - just to be clear: I mean the chord Ski names as C to the power 0 - o wait, that's an open bullit (alt-shift-8), C°, though to me this means centigrade... Just look at the (recurring) melody of the verse: There's - a - fog - up - on L - A c - d# - f# - d# - f# - c - e As you can see the first five notes is 75 % of the complete Centigrade chord. Though I guess the "Sheldon Coopers" of this world could claim it to be a Cmb5 chord...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 C D# F# A (Cº chord)================= C D# G A = m6 C E F# A over D = D9 C E F# A over G# = G#7 +5,b9 or Ab7 +5,b9 Good point.... one man's half diminished is another man's minor sixth chord. So these chords are about 50% as ambiguous as the full diminished chord and that's even before adding new bass notes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Erik -- the centigrade chord -- LOL! Love it! The º indicates diminished, and a circle with a slash through it indicates half-diminished. If I had written it as C€7 it would have been an indication of the suggested retail price for my analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristancalvaire Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Erik -- the centigrade chord -- LOL! Love it! The º indicates diminished, and a circle with a slash through it indicates half-diminished. If I had written it as C€7 it would have been an indication of the suggested retail price for my analysis. Quick, somebody compose a song where every instrument is detuned to be perfectly equidistant in cents between any two adjacent notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.