To print & not to print FX

[guitarisation]

Hi

 

As I don't have outboard comp I've updated my Autoload with audio tracks for compression/limiting for when I record vocals, as described pp 297-298 of the manual. I'm using input 1 of my interface, the only XLR input it has.

 

Could I still have the option not to print FX on other tracks? Ideally I'd have audio tracks 1 -5 printing FX & tracks 6 - 10 dry.

 

Now in the track I/O each time I select input 1 for my interface I only get the Input Object I created in the environment, with no option for input 1 audio track:(

 

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

LP 7.2.3

[marcel72]

Anthony:

 

The stuff you are describing is not really FX. Compression and limiting are used in an input chain to reduce or limit the dynamic range of the signal before it reaches the recording device. Specifically with vocals (the human voice has like an 80dB range) the idea is to get more level out of the signal by reducing the peaks to a level that will still fit in the (in your case) digital realm, allowing more of the signal to be louder.

 

So inserting dynamics in Logic on input is relatively pointless - the signal has already been 'recorded' by the A/D converters in your interface, and the window for managing dynamic range has closed. Not to say that you don't want to use dynamics within Logic on vocals for monitoring or mixing, but where they go in the chain is relatively unimportant.

 

I would suggest that you try to record vocals with lots of headroom. Try to work so that the peaks of what you are recording do not go above about 6dB in Logic, with the channel strip fader at 0. The self noise of a DAW is so minimal that you can afford to do this without compromising quality much at all. The signal to noise ratio of your signal chain prior to the computer 'is what it is' and adding gain in Logic will not really change this.

 

Using, and being able to destructively record, FX on input would be more appropriate for (say) a guitar part, where the player is playing off a delay patch and the relationship between the delay and the playing needs to be maintained.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Best, Marcel

[guitarisation]

Marcel

 

Thank you very much for your explanation, especially "the signal has already been 'recorded' by the A/D converters in your interface, and the window for managing dynamic range has closed"

 

However, I'm still curious as to whether I could choose in the track I/O between printing FX or not when an Input Object has been set up! At the moment it seems once an input object is assigned to my interface's XLR input I can't record dry unless I go to the environment to delete the input object

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

LP 7.2.3

[marcel72]

I believe that any changes you make to the input object would affect that input every time it is used. You could try some pre-saved channel setting options, or just go in and bypass the inserts and otherwise zero out the channel.

 

Best, Marcel

[shivermetimbers]

Hi

 

As I don't have outboard comp I've updated my Autoload with audio tracks for compression/limiting for when I record vocals, as described pp 297-298 of the manual. I'm using input 1 of my interface, the only XLR input it has.

 

Could I still have the option not to print FX on other tracks? Ideally I'd have audio tracks 1 -5 printing FX & tracks 6 - 10 dry.

 

Now in the track I/O each time I select input 1 for my interface I only get the Input Object I created in the environment, with no option for input 1 audio track javascript:emoticon(':(')

 

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

LP 7.2.3

 

I am missing your point. You don't have any outboard equipment, Right?

Are you referring to the Helper I/O?

If so, why would you use that if you are NOT inserting anything?

 

As for recording with (or without) any type of effects such as Compression, Reverb, EQ, etc, They do not become a permanent part of the recording until you bounce them.

 

So when you bounce you will either have or have not the effect. So I think what you are looking for is to use effects from the insert section of a track and keep the dry tracks dry.

 

The I/O would function more as an Insert device if you have some nice outboard gear that you want to permanetly burn in the signal.

[guitarisation]

Hi Shivermetimbers

 

You're right, I'm looking to emulate an outboard comp/limiter ITB for vocals etc

 

I understand Marcel's point that ideally comp/limiting should take place before A/D conversion

 

However I still would like an Autoload where say 5 audio tracks would be "normal" ie for dry recording & 5 more used with Input Tracks for comp/limiting

 

The problem is that on my interface I only have one XLR input. I was wondering if I could decide to print or not to print FX in the Arrange page, in the channel strip I/O

 

I'll look into the Helper I/O, thanks for the tip!

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

LP 7.2.3

[shivermetimbers]

Hi

 

As I don't have outboard comp I've updated my Autoload with audio tracks for compression/limiting for when I record vocals, as described pp 297-298 of the manual. I'm using input 1 of my interface, the only XLR input it has.

 

Could I still have the option not to print FX on other tracks? Ideally I'd have audio tracks 1 -5 printing FX & tracks 6 - 10 dry.

 

Now in the track I/O each time I select input 1 for my interface I only get the Input Object I created in the environment, with no option for input 1 audio track javascript:emoticon(':(')

 

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

LP 7.2.3

 

Okay, going back to your original question. I want to make sure I understand this.

 

You have one MIC input (You also have line(s) 1 &2 in &out) and you have NO outboard gear going in between your Mic/guitar/other and your M-audio firewire solo interface box. Right?

 

So you record your Voice or Instrument on ANY audio channel dry. You repeat this with all the vocals and/or Instruments you wish to record (dry).

Once recorded you use the inserts to add what ever effect you wish and it is Not permanently added. You can remove it completely or put it in bypass mode.

 

Once you are happy with the FX, you can bounce the song and still have the original in case you want to remix.

 

If you have no external effects, then the Helper I/O insert will be useless to you.

 

Am I on the right track with this? You are basically doing everything within Logic, right?

[guitarisation]

Hi Shivermetimbers

 

You're right on all counts (only 1 mic input, no outboard, Helper I/O useless to me & everything done within Logic)

 

To emulate outboard comp I created an Input Object so comp is now printed, useful for vox. I add reverb through a bus. So far so good for Audio Track 1

 

Imagine for Audio Track 2 I wanted to record guitar dry. When I select I/O, I now get the Input Object I created, not a dry track. If I had multiple XLRs I could commit XLR1 to printing comp & XLR2 to recording dry but my interface has only 1 XLR input

 

As I do everything ITB, I'm looking for the I/O to display something like Input 1 with comp printed AND input 1 dry. At the moment, it's one or the other!

 

Thanks for your help so far

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

AT 20-20 mic

LP 7.2.3

[shivermetimbers]

Hi Shivermetimbers

 

You're right on all counts (only 1 mic input, no outboard, Helper I/O useless to me & everything done within Logic)

 

To emulate outboard comp I created an Input Object so comp is now printed, useful for vox. I add reverb through a bus. So far so good for Audio Track 1

 

Imagine for Audio Track 2 I wanted to record guitar dry. When I select I/O, I now get the Input Object I created, not a dry track. If I had multiple XLRs I could commit XLR1 to printing comp & XLR2 to recording dry but my interface has only 1 XLR input

 

As I do everything ITB, I'm looking for the I/O to display something like Input 1 with comp printed AND input 1 dry. At the moment, it's one or the other!

 

Thanks for your help so far

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

AT 20-20 mic

LP 7.2.3

 

 

Hmmmm...

 

It sounds as if you are creating your tracks in the Environment.

 

When you open a NEW song and choose a template you should have many choices as to how many and what type of tracks you want without using the Environment.

 

Every Audio track channel (1,2,3,4,...) will have an INPUT 1 selection for you to use. Channel one will be your Vocal channel with a Compression insert (the compression is not permanently 'printed' into your track). Channel, or actually Track 2 will be for your Guitar with no Fx.

 

You can continue in this fashion until you have recorded on all 255 Audio tracks with any variation of Fx.

 

It also looks as if you have a choice of 2 inputs. Does Logic show you this option when you select Input?

[guitarisation]

Hi Shivermetimbers

 

Again I agree with everything you wrote in your last post BUT in addition to what you describe I would like some audio tracks to be recorded DESTRUCTIVELY (with comp or limiting)

 

The fact I can only use the one XLR I have is the issue. Today I had to delete the Input Object I had created so I could record ambient noise with no destructive comp. Tomorrow I have to recreate it to record bass compressed destructively...

 

Ideally my Autoload would have Audio Tracks 1-5 recording non-destructively & Audio Tracks 6-10 recording destructively

 

Thanks for your pix & help and forgive my caps, it's for clarity!

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

AT 20-20 mic

LP 7.2.3

[shivermetimbers]

I see what you mean (it takes some time for things to set in).

 

I haven't tried this with Audio, but I don't see why it wouldn't work the same.

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=5028

 

It will record the audio of midi controller sounds. See if it will work for you.

[guitarisation]

Thanks for the link. Very clever work-around, I will attempt it

 

To conclude this post, I'm left with 3 options:

 

1. accept the fact I have to create/delete the Input Object each time I want to record destructively/non-destructively

 

2. replace my interface with one that has more XLR inputs and commit one of those inputs to destructive recording

 

3. get an outboard comp!

 

Anthony

 

12' PowerBook G4 1GHz 1.25 ram

M-Audio FireWire Solo

AT20-20 mic

LP 7.2.3

[dkgross]

I think options 2 and 3 would probably be your best bet