Best way to A-B in Logic?

There must be a standard, easy way of doing this that I've neglected so far...

For example, I'm working on a project, with 16 tracks of virtual instruments and audio. I have a reference stereo track of a bit of audio I'm trying to emulate.

Is there a quick, one-click way of going:

My project - [click] Reference - {click} My project - etc...?

I can have my project playing, and the reference muted, and one click on 'solo' for the reference track will instantly have that play on its own. Which is stupendously fantastic and everything, except I can't then switch back to the project mix with just one click.

...or can I?

What BMD said is the quickest method for sure!

On the flip side, both David and myself (and I think some other too) have posted Environments that have a built-in "A/B switch". It's not complicated stuff, and the necessary components could be copied/pasted from these into your song. But you'll have to do a search to find them. Try searching for keywords like "compare" or "A/B". Or check out the Logic & Mainstage Environment Templates section.

Here's my method:

A Compare button: alternate mutes on 2 tracks

Here's my method:

 

A Compare button: alternate mutes on 2 tracks

Perfect.

I might not have explained it particularly well in my first post, but the reference mix was already in Logic on an audio track.

Like I said, I could have my project playing, and the reference muted. One click on 'solo' for the reference track would switch to just playing that. The problem was wanting to be able to do the reverse with just one click. Essentially, I just wanted one 'compare' button that I could press and it would switch from one reference track to a group of project tracks alternatively each time I clicked it.

-which is exactly what David just posted

Thanks all.

Simply send the REF track to a specific BUS/Aux channel and the rest of the mix to another Bus/Aux channel and Opt toggle the SOLO buttons on the Bus/Aux channels.

This is the easiest way and simple to use for the Environmentally challenged.

http://www.logicprohelp.com/files/picture_13_183.png

Now you can compare simply by clicking on any of the Grouped channels in the arrange or mix window.

Do you mean clicking on their mute button? And then how do you compare again? You have to find the reference channel and click its mute button right?

Simply send the REF track to a specific BUS/Aux channel and the rest of the mix to another Bus/Aux channel and Opt toggle the SOLO buttons on the Bus/Aux channels.

This is the easiest way and simple to use for the Environmentally challenged.

http://www.logicprohelp.com/files/picture_13_183.png

I have a slight problem.

If I follow 'shivermetimbers's suggestion, all I get is a load of grouped tracks. I can no longer mute individual project tracks, which is a bit useless. Nothing else happens though, there's no A-B functionality, and nothing affects the reference track. Although I'm guessing I've missed something about the CC9 and transformer function - I'm not that au fait with the Environment at the mo...

And although it looks like David's response is just what I need, I don't know how to use the attached file. In terms of how to import it into my environment and set it up correctly.

OK I get it. Shiver's solution is not really a compare button, just a way to quicky toggle the mute of all your grouped tracks with a reference, or the other way around. The advantage of his solution is that you're comparing one reference with a bunch of tracks (your mix).

I like the compare button myself because it's a one button toggle: click it once and you hear your reference, click it again and you hear your mix, and so on. But in its current implementation I'm only toggling between two tracks, so you still have to first mix down your project and put it on a track.

Open my environment in the small thin window with only one channel strip, make the window bigger and choose View > Cables. Route the top out of the COMPARE button to one channel strip, the output of the Transformer to another and you're toggling between those two channel strips.

Open my environment in the small thin window with only one channel strip...

In my project, if I go to options-import environment (in the mixer environment window) I have lots of different options for importing - does it matter which one I select?

Open my environment in the small thin window with only one channel strip...

 

In my project, if I go to options-import environment (in the mixer environment window) I have lots of different options for importing - does it matter which one I select?

It's just one button and one Transformer. Select them and copy and paste them from mine to yours, or even drag and drop.

David I think I tried your compare button months ago and from what I remember when it was clicked there would be a split second (a few milliseconds) where both sources would play at the same time making the master peak. Can you reproduce that?

If yes, is there a way to patch in a delay in the environment so that there's actually a few milliseconds of silence when the button is pressed. Cheers

Simply send the REF track to a specific BUS/Aux channel and the rest of the mix to another Bus/Aux channel and Opt toggle the SOLO buttons on the Bus/Aux channels.

This is the easiest way and simple to use for the Environmentally challenged.

David I think I tried your compare button months ago and from what I remember when it was clicked there would be a split second (a few milliseconds) where both sources would play at the same time making the master peak. Can you reproduce that?

No, at least nothing I can notice that would hinder me doing a typical compare.

It's just one button and one Transformer. Select them and copy and paste them from mine to yours, or even drag and drop.

Thanks for that.

It'd really be helpful to have an A-B between a reference audio track, and the whole project, rather than a mixdown of a project, since the point of A-Bing would be so I can focus in on specific mix details and tweak them instantly.

I can probably set up a pre-master-output bus that all project tracks go through, and select that as the 'toggle' - I'm guessing that's the most sensible way of setting it up?

The toggle switch worked fine - thanks. Although, being new to the environment there's a couple of quick questions:

1) What's the white box, labeled 'cabled to original in'?

2) I copied the mystery box, the transformer and switch and pasted into the mixer layer of my environment, cabling it up to the necessary tracks. It all worked fine, but is there an easier way of having the 'compare' button accessible? At the moment I have to open the whole mixer environment and toggle the switch from there, but I'm guessing there's probably a neater way to integrate the switch - as in your attached logic file.

Apologies for the constant queries - but once I know the answers, I'll never need to ask again

To compare a bunch of tracks with one reference track, cable the output of the COMPARE button to the ref track, then cable the output of the transformer to one track of your mix, then a new output will appear. Cable that one to another track, a new output will appear... etc.

1) What's the white box, labeled 'cabled to original in'?

It was just a label - it looks horrible in Logic 8, just get rid of it or disregard.

2) I copied the mystery box, the transformer and switch and pasted into the mixer layer of my environment, cabling it up to the necessary tracks. It all worked fine, but is there an easier way of having the 'compare' button accessible?

Drag the objects around by dragging their name at the bottom of each objects, and place the COMPARE button at the top left. Then choose View > Frameless Floating Window, and resize, place the small window where you want, and lock your screenset, then save your project.

I think that the A/B compare problem can be solved in a very simple way, just by toggling the Mute and Solo button of the reference track which will save lots of additional work.

Here is my mini Macro button which does the job. Readme is included in the zip.

PS. I guess some people will wonder why I use CC messages and transform them to Fader ones, when I can do that directly. This is why cause sometimes the buttons which are set directly to Fader definition type use very extra behavior depends on the fader range, channel etc... so I probably will clarify that in new topic one day.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/989/14376764.gif

a_b_comp.zip

Simply send the REF track to a specific BUS/Aux channel and the rest of the mix to another Bus/Aux channel and Opt toggle the SOLO buttons on the Bus/Aux channels.

This is the easiest way and simple to use for the Environmentally challenged.

http://www.logicprohelp.com/files/picture_13_183.png

This is the easiest way and simple to use for the Environmentally challenged.

No offense to your effort, but no sound engineer will change his mix routings which can be more then 50 - 100 tracks, instruments groups, if need some simple a/b compare to a reference track.

So, I still think that the best way is to toggle the Mute and Solo of the reference track only, as I showed in my previous post. It does not require any routing changes of the original project, additional cabling etc... Hope see what is my idea ?

Regards

No offense to your effort, but no sound engineer will change his mix routings which can be more then 50 - 100 tracks, instruments groups, if need some simple a/b compare to a reference track.

So, I still think that the best way is to toggle the Mute and Solo of the reference track only, as I showed in my previous post. It does not require any routing changes of the original project, additional cabling etc... Hope see what is my idea ?

Regards

I really think there's no "best solution", both are great! Scandor's solution is a great simple switch in the environment. If you know the environment it takes a minute to setup, or if you know how to drag and drop objects from his environment into your project, and you have access to his project, it takes about 10 seconds to setup!

But if you don't have access to his project and get pimples when you hear the word "environment", then Shiver's solution is great and simple, simple, simple.

For example, if tomorrow I'm teaching a Logic 101 class and someone asks me how to do it, I'll show Shiver's method!

So I think it's great we have all those solutions. Thanks guys for sharing.

Thank you David an Ivan,

No offense taken.

When it comes to issues with the Environment, some people have a difficult time and cannot use it. Thanks to everyone who takes time to demonstrate easy or complex ideas using the Environment help others to become familiar ( or famous) with how it works.

I don't think a sound engineer on an analog mixer has the ability to use a button from the environment. In the DAW world, some do not know how to import a button into an existing project, and some do not know how to cable, etc.

There are so many options to choose that do the same thing.

Ivan, your A/B switch is good. However, I will challenge you to do better. Make your method work by clicking on the reference channel's SOLO switch instead of a button from the Environment.

8)

Simply click on the Reference channel Solo switch in the Mixer window.

Yes, you can also use LEARN if you want this to function via an external controller.

ShiversReference.logic.zip

wilx,

You may even be able to toggle the Mute/Solo button on the Reference track with your Duet (or any controller) without using the Environment.

It is a sneaky method you may like. It works well on my NanoK

Simply click on the Reference channel Solo switch in the Mixer window.

Hi Shiver...

Yes, I do that for years in Cubase ( no environment tricks there except third party virtual midi cables & tools ) using my hardware controller.

Thanks for giving this light, some people can get rid of that too !

Wow Shive, that was a great idea! I just cleaned it up so you don't need the extra Aux channel strip, very simple - just click the solo button on the channel strip (it doesn't work if you click the solo button on the track).

A_B_ing mix.logic.zip

Wow Shive, that was a great idea! I just cleaned it up so you don't need the extra Aux channel strip, very simple - just click the solo button on the channel strip (for some reason it doesn't work if you click the solo button on the track).

Isn't cloning wonderful?

Sadly, all the fun things that can be done in the Environment are not so fun if the user does not understand the Environment.

The lesser of the two evils would then be to use a controller. Here again, some users do not understand the use of these toys, so re-routing and using key commands are one of the last options available. For the users afraid of the Environment or Controller programming, you will have to hope the next version/update of Logic will use this function, or start learning how to do some of the basics.

So now, on to the Controller.

Most controllers have pads/buttons that toggle from and on state to an off state. In Logic, many people try to use the LEARN function for something like a SOLO or MUTE control.

Problems arise when using the LEARN function for say a mute switch and in the process, the user presses the control button one time during the LEARN process. The result is this, the user ends up having to press the control button for MUTE a few times to get LOGIC to respond as opposed to pressing the control button once and have Logic respond as desired.

We can use this to our advantage...

Users who own a controller with these buttons can set up a reference track without the use of the Environment.

Understand how to use Logic's LEARN function for this process.

Understand how to use your controller.

Here is how:

1.) Let's select a button/pad (that is set to a toggle function and not momentary) and have it set to the OFF state (no lights lit if you have lights).

2.) Click on the Mixer SOLO button a few times and click on the LEARN button. Press your controller button 3 times so it ends up in an ON state (light on).

3.) (Still in LEARN MODE) click on the mixer MUTE button and press ONE time (light off), the same controller button you used for solo. Click on the LEARN button to exit LEARN MODE.

If all went well, you now have a controller set up to toggle your REFERENCE track from SOLO to MUTE without the use of the Environment.

If you want the reference track to always have control over mute/solo, then the Controller assignment for both must be set to that track. Otherwise the Controller Assignment can float to the selected track.

8)

Awesome, this is great guys. Can we take it one step further?

I've been using the bypass channel strip setting button that David created here:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=10694

Can we keep it simple with the toggle the solo button on the reference track but when the solo button is pressed to listen to the reference track, the plugs on the Out 1-2 track are bypassed so we can hear the reference without the bus compressor. If we're comparing with last nights mix, we don't want to hear the bus compressor twice.

I'm an Enviro noob so right now if I plug David's Transformer from the A/B into the Bypass button macro it works but opposite of what I want. Now when I solo the reference track the plugs stay on and when the reference track is muted the plugs go off. We need the opposite. Just need to reverse something in there. Much appreciated.