New Audio Engine Request Logic Pro X

[stpro]

This personal opinion, but for this reason, I hope you don't mind me I think It's time for the regeneration of the LPX audio engine

 

the reasons for this is that, I've been using logic for many years LPX i think the best Midi software I can't think of another option in this regard I feel such peace logic workflow LPX.

 

but

 

I'm making a mix with samplitute last 7 years.a very important reason samplitude has clarity and natural transparenty audio engine. You can hear all the sounds are clean and natural.

 

Logic has a sound a little color, puch and enhance shining a little corners HI and Low sub , the advantage of this color I think rock metal and edm music for may be the best choice, but electronic music not only edm It's too dark for a soft music styles. therefore I think it's necessary to write a completely natural audio engine.

 

There's only one requirement New audio engine ( clarity- no color-warm and 100% tranasparent naturel sound ) like sequoia/samplitude.

other programs on these issues quite evolved, I hope it's real

thank you

[StudioQ1]

I produce EDM someone you claim the audio engine is good for. While I agree I love the audio engine so much for my style of music, the last thing I would want to see is anything changed as I have no problems with it.

 

I really dont know if Samplitutde is actually more transparent, as far as I know you are just stating that without any scientific proof to back that up. As someone who doesn't even know what samplitude is, I have to laugh at a post like this without any proof.

 

What have you done to test Samplitudes transparency over logics? And/Or what tests have been doing to validate what you have stated?

 

Again, I love logics audio engine and dont notice any differences compared to other daws besides pan laws.

[des99]

"Logic needs a new audio engine" has been a request from people from every version of Logic that had audio onwards - *someone* somewhere *always* thinks the audio engine is somehow deficient and needs to be scrapped.

 

It mostly/traditionally turns out to be a user thing, as DAWs have been null tested for years and they are all identical in basic operations. Logic can play back a 24-bit file just fine, without changing the audio quality. It can mix together multiple streams of 32f properly, just like every other DAW.

 

If you are referring the Samplitude using a 64-bit audio engine, and think it must therefore sound better than a 32f audio engine, then you probably need to revisit the maths of sampling.

 

But if you really find that working with Logic doesn't get you satisfactorily to the results you are after, whether it's actually a real problem in Logic or it's just a user-experience thing, then I'd recommend switching to what tools *can* get you the results you want, rather than sticking with something you can't work with, and wait from version to version in the hope that you're issue gets resolved...

[Eriksimon]

Logic does not have an audio engine.

[stpro]

i did test 32 bit float point same steam files, also no mixer eq no volume fader no pan no mixer insert and buss/aux,

 

just try , You can hear the difference,

 

I do not know why I did null test ableton-logic-studio one-logic-samplitude ok The results equal

 

but,

when you try, hear the difference more clarity. Please try the demo samplitude and Place the same sounds of steam. 24 bit 48khz or 32 bit 48 khz.

 

also There is much speculation on this subject, it's hard to tell by talking I have tried and heard. i love logic but "only MIDI works".

[des99]

Logic does not have an audio engine.

 

MAAudioEngine.framework

[Eriksimon]

Logic does not have an audio engine.

 

MAAudioEngine.framework

Mmm, I'm no coder and have next to no knowledge about programming, but I am pretty sure (meaning several trustworthy sources have once explained to me) that the actual audio engine is part of the OS, not of Logic, or of whatever DAW. I believe that framework will connect Logic to the OS audio engine, but it is not the audio engine itself. But, absolutely correct me if I'm wrong.

Anywho, it is the analog hardware (AD-DA convertors, amps, speakers, monitors, headphones etc) that determines 99.99999 % of the soundquality, so...

[des99]

Mmm, I'm no coder and have next to no knowledge about programming, but I am pretty sure (meaning several trustworthy sources have once explained to me) that the actual audio engine is part of the OS, not of Logic, or of whatever DAW.

 

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I don't know how much CoreAudio is doing vs how much specific Logic stuff is happening.

 

It makes sense to leverage as much of the power of CoreAudio as possible, but ultimately, where the code resides (in the CoreAudio libraries or directly in Logic itself) there is still an audio engine which is processing samples, mixing 32f audio streams, and receiving and sending audio to and from CoreAudio devices.

[StudioQ1]

So your saying, you did a null test and received equal results amongst several DAWs and yet you still claim there is a difference. Im not saying your wrong I'm just saying, if your right, you still haven't found your problem.

 

If your gonna be all hans zimmer on us and say logic has a specific sound then go chill with that elite crowd, trust me when I say from your own tests alone they should tell you that you haven't found any difference in your null tests so if there is a difference it is so minuscule that you are unable to find it, meaning it shouldn't effect whatever style of music your trying to make.

 

Also, as above person stated, if you are noticing sound differences and are having harder time finding like of DAW A's sound and prefer DAW B's sound go with DAW B, because if you think the sound quality is truly less transparent then that thought will constantly nag you.

[liquidlogichelp]

I think you are dead on right. Logic has always had a dark sound to it. Wether thats good or bad? who knows. But for people to slam other people or tell them they are wrong is just crazy. There is a difference. I here it every day. I have 2 macs.. one runs logic and one runs Studio One V3.. i slave logics synths into studio. i can record the exact same thing on both computers and logic does sound darker and has less clarity with out a doubt. I don't care what anybody says i hear it.

 

But i will say this, who is to say if its good or bad? a DAW should be a tool in your tool box .. if you want that sound for that song then use logic if not then use something else..

 

IMHO.. Logics sound sucks so does the AU plugin, multitimbral instrument handling and the mixer is a flat out joke. But thats apple for you. They will define how you are going to work instead of how you want to work. Again thats my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people worship the things I hate. But thats what makes all the stuff cool. everybody can find a way to work around and create in different ways..

 

Rock on

[fisherking]

I think you are dead on right. Logic has always had a dark sound to it. Wether thats good or bad? who knows. But for people to slam other people or tell them they are wrong is just crazy. There is a difference. I here it every day. I have 2 macs.. one runs logic and one runs Studio One V3.. i slave logics synths into studio. i can record the exact same thing on both computers and logic does sound darker and has less clarity with out a doubt. I don't care what anybody says i hear it.

 

But i will say this, who is to say if its good or bad? a DAW should be a tool in your tool box .. if you want that sound for that song then use logic if not then use something else..

 

IMHO.. Logics sound sucks so does the AU plugin, multitimbral instrument handling and the mixer is a flat out joke. But thats apple for you. They will define how you are going to work instead of how you want to work. Again thats my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people worship the things I hate. But thats what makes all the stuff cool. everybody can find a way to work around and create in different ways..

 

Rock on

 

you're posting this on a logic forum? good luck getting support for your rant. we use logic, pro tools...back and forth, and have no such issues. personally, i prefer logic. but no matter what you use, the quality of the work has more to do with the final outcome then the tools used...

[stpro]

My preference as follows

1 sequoia/samplitude best transparenty a big sound.

2 studio one 3 (other choice if without samplitude)

3 protools (other choice if without samplitude or Studio one 3)

4 logic ( sound good more punch but dark color sound, waiting for improve the sound engine..)

5 ableton ( maxmsp support good program but sound is heard cramped )

6 cubase 8 ( sound is not dark but sound is heard cramped )

 

 

I tried Studio One V3 and I compare the two samplitude and Studio One 3 ok sound good and clean but I prefer Samplitude, I think the Samplitude gives more clarity/warm. from std 3.

 

My aim is not to say negative words for logic, when I start to produce music, mix feels pessimistic with lpx mix. ofcourse I wanted to mix it on logic but if it improves sound engine..I do not want to denigrate logic, just the opposite i love logic but For many years I'm waiting for the development of the logic sound engine "the escape from the dark sound" Please do not get me wrong I am writing MIDI with logic last 15 years but ,Please improve the sound engine.

[Eriksimon]

People may have preferences, but DAWs do not have audio engines. The OS does. Perceived differences (when tested on the same OS!) are attributable to difference in plugin architecture or to perception bias or to any kind of setup error.

But if you believe it, you will keep hearing it.

[fisherking]

People may have preferences, but DAWs do not have audio engines. The OS does. Perceived differences (when tested on the same OS!) are attributable to difference in plugin architecture or to perception bias or to any kind of setup error.

But if you believe it, you will keep hearing it.

 

well put.

[Eric Cardenas]

A couple of links, just for fun:

 

Compare mixes in PT HD, PT LE & Logic!

DAW Sound Engine Comparison

Listening Test! - Avid Pro Audio Community

[stpro]

from mix magazine

from mix magazine

[fisherking]

from mix magazine

 

it's a photo. is there a point? really, how does it apply to the discussion?... the endorsements??

[G.K.]

Here's a link to a quite nice article that deals with the "War of DAW's",

and our ( the users ) perception of the superiority of the sound quality of one DAW over another .

( By the way, in this article you will also find a link to a Video wherein Bob Katz shares some of his wisdom. )

 

https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHelp/html/app_audio.htm

 

 

Best

Gerd

Edited June 16, 2015 by G.K.

[RedBaron]

 

MAAudioEngine.framework

Mmm, I'm no coder and have next to no knowledge about programming, but I am pretty sure (meaning several trustworthy sources have once explained to me) that the actual audio engine is part of the OS, not of Logic, or of whatever DAW. I believe that framework will connect Logic to the OS audio engine, but it is not the audio engine itself. But, absolutely correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

I'd like to know what your sources meant by that.

 

Take plugin chains as one example. The standard Core Audio API system for chaining AU plugins is called an AU Graph. Logic doesn't use an AU Graph, they wrote their own version of 'AU Graph' that's also AU Graph compliant. From memory, this info came from Dough Wyatt on the core audio team. So they certainly aren't using Core Audio for everything.

 

One area they might be using Core Audio is for audio format conversion (e.g. 32-bit floating point to 24-bit integer). Core Audio includes format conversion API's to convert between file formats in real-time. Really powerful stuff.

 

Core Audio really is a marvel. The API's are vast. Nothing on Windows can match it in terms of functionality.

Edited June 16, 2015 by RedBaron

[logic8mine]

I'm dumbfounded that you guys are responding to someone who:

 

1) hasn't even taken the time to fill out his signature and,

2) for some strange reason has purchased 6 different daw''s... LOL

[fisherking]

I'm dumbfounded that you guys are responding to someone who:

 

1) hasn't even taken the time to fill out his signature and,

2) for some strange reason has purchased 6 different daw''s... LOL

 

are you suggesting that everything posted on an internet forum should not be taken seriously?

but...but, it's the internet....

[logic8mine]

I'm dumbfounded that you guys are responding to someone who:

 

1) hasn't even taken the time to fill out his signature and,

2) for some strange reason has purchased 6 different daw''s... LOL

 

are you suggesting that everything posted on an internet forum should not be taken seriously?

but...but, it's the internet....

Not by any means. I just expect a certain standard of effort and creativity in order to sufficiently obfuscate one's... Trollishness

[djbarona]

I agree Logic Pro X has color and especially when you stack a few tracks together you do not get the same clear mix as you do with Samplitude or Pro Tools for that matter. I really think its time for Apple to revamp Logic . It can use some sparkle and most important a new sound engine. !

[stardustmedia]

I'm dumbfounded that you guys are responding to someone who:

 

1) hasn't even taken the time to fill out his signature and,

2) for some strange reason has purchased 6 different daw''s... LOL

 

Good one

 

I love it when people start threads about how punchy, transparent, or whatever one DAW is, while the other isn't. I wish I'd have that time to bother about such issues.

 

It won't matter which DAW you use, audio quality wise, in my experience. If you can make a living is not depending on that. Definitely not. There are for sure hundreds of examples that made it into the top ten charts, that are produced, mixed, recorded with:

- Logic

- Cubase

- Protools

- Tape

- ADAT

- and so on

 

My recommendation to all newbies: Start doing good music and stop bothering about some internet-nonsense-quarrel about tools. As long as tool helps you doing great music in a fast and simple way, go and get it and have fun.

[angelonyc]

All you need is an EQ setting. that compensates for the coloring you are looking for.. no biggie at all..

[Parkol]

I agree, Samplitude sounds perfect, I remember I used that few years ago on Windows...

[Crysler]

logics audio engine is absolutely terrible compared to others. you wont notice until things start to stack. low end sounds off. The way it processes midi is also terrible. Ive been using logic for 20 years and its by far the worst of the bunch. However it beats the rest with its library

[fernandraynaud]

Actually, if you notice, Logic X's engine HAS been getting clearer of late. Compare the dark subterranean feel of the first 10.0 release with the brighter grays of 10.4. There are even "themes" you can install that will take the whole engine to any degree of clarity you may want - there's even one called "snow", as I recall.

[Crysler]

Actually, if you notice, Logic X's engine HAS been getting clearer of late. Compare the dark subterranean feel of the first 10.0 release with the brighter grays of 10.4. There are even "themes" you can install that will take the whole engine to any degree of clarity you may want - there's even one called "snow", as I recall.

 

While that can definately play tricks on the ears. I’ve programmed a drum pattern in different daws. Logic has a glitch where midi is never on time, so if you have more than two or three stacks of drums. You think they are phasing but they are not. this happens intermittently throughout a region. This happens with exs24, ultrabeat and alchemy which leads me to believe it’s part of the code logic works with. If you wanna bypass this you can place audio files of drum samples directly on the arranger and it works much better. FL studio, ableton and studio one are extremely tight. When working with those daws you get a perception that it’s louder. It’s not... they all go as loud. You’re just listening back in perfect phase. FL and ableton obviously put a lot of time into their sampler as it’s part of their bread and butter. Logic not so much. Their samplers are geared more towards instruments than drum. Ultrabeat suffers from the same midi mess, but has some better features. Exs24 has not been updated in what 25+ years? Based on the entry price of logic I wouldn’t expect them to go all out and revamp their samplers to match the times. Alchemy is cool, but it’s def not the best drum sampler for timing and razor sharp accuracy like the aforementioned daw. After this test I haven’t touched any sampler inside logic, and it’s noticeably better at the expense of annoyingly writing in every audio sample

[Dewdman42]

Logic doesn't have any midi timing problems. Please describe the exact thing you are attempting to do that is resulting the phasing sound...exact steps and configuration. Most likely you had some plugin latency giving you grief...