Logic 10.4.3 Update

[GeeMan]

Um Guys...

 

Where is the de-convolver function in space designer?

[Sascha Franck]

Where is the de-convolver function in space designer?

 

What exactly do you mean? Loading impulse responses or creating them?

[GeeMan]

Hi, De-convolution is creating IR's from test signals and response signals.

 

Logic had a de-convolver on the controls page of space designer. Clumsy but it worked... I'm hoping they made a more elegant solution and that's why it's now missing in 10.4.3

 

The plugin loads presets and IRs fine here. Doesn't yours?

[Sascha Franck]

Hi, De-convolution is creating IR's from test signals and response signals.

 

The plugin loads presets and IRs fine here. Doesn't yours?

 

Of course it does. I was just asking what you were refering to.

You want to load the IR utility. It's available from the IR selection pulldown in Space Designer. Alternatively, you can right/option-click your Logic program icon and select "show package contents". Go to "Contents/Applications" in there.

[GeeMan]

Of course it does. I was just asking what you were refering to.

You want to load the IR utility. It's available from the IR selection pulldown in Space Designer. Alternatively, you can right/option-click your Logic program icon and select "show package contents". Go to "Contents/Applications" in there.

 

Ah, OK.

Yes de-convolving, not loading.

 

They moved it!

Great, they did finally make it more elegant as I hoped. This should make things considerably more clear... The old method was close to horrific when doing lots of work.

 

Thanks, Sascha.

 

BTW: How is your "recent" list in songs?

I just updated to 10.4.3 and I have worked for a cpl of days on a track and wanted to check an old version and the list only has one entry.

I loaded 5other songs u and they also only have one entry.

[Multispace]

This might be related to the auto backup problem I'm having. Since 10.4.3 the 'Revert to' submenu in the File menu doesn't add a backup whenever I save. Others have this too?

 

Mark

[GeeMan]

Oh, disaster.

 

I can't find how to simply load in a prerecorded test and response file...

The IR Utility seems to only process sound recorded into it - and it doesn't use Logic's bus's.

 

Say I have a bunch of effects on a track and want to condense ALL the eq ad space affecting elements into one IR... (the linear stuff obviously)

That is now impossible in Logic without some weird workaround, right?

[GeeMan]

This might be related to the auto backup problem I'm having. Since 10.4.3 the 'Revert to' submenu in the File menu doesn't add a backup whenever I save. Others have this too?

 

Yep. This could be serious.

[skijumptoes]

I feel sad that i've never de-convulved now!

 

Are you recording your own IR's with a mic setup? It's something i've fancied doing, like as a hobby to walk around in the fresh air and record ambiences/IR's. i.e. in churches, under bridges, that kind of thing

 

I don't know why, but it's always fascinated me to do that. And i guess a portable recorder is all that's needed?

 

I knew a guy who spent most of his spare time doing it, and he'd travel with a big case full of gear. But he was a live sound engineer.

[GeeMan]

I feel sad that i've never de-convulved now!

Are you recording your own IR's with a mic setup? It's something i've fancied doing, like as a hobby to walk around in the fresh air and record ambiences/IR's. i.e. in churches, under bridges, that kind of thing

I don't know why, but it's always fascinated me to do that. And i guess a portable recorder is all that's needed?

I knew a guy who spent most of his spare time doing it, and he'd travel with a big case full of gear. But he was a live sound engineer.

 

I have used a zoom h4n, even with the built in mics - for most room ambience, which you'll use as a reverb in the back of a mix - you don't really need fancy stuff and you'll probably end up eqing anyhow.

 

The quick, cheap and dirty method is a starting pistol, or even a short, smooth plank of wood cut in half with a hinge that you slam together.

Obviously, never do this drunk and naked.

Get your recording levels sensible: Put source and mics in the right places.... Record.

These don't require ANY deconvolution. You literally record the noise then trim the file and load into a convo-verb.

 

And various setups through desks... rooms, amps, outboard and more... Even a 2 km, mountain-sided seaside cove once.

Which required an amusingly loud impulse.

 

The test tone approach requires more effort...

Play the sweep, record the impulse-response, trim the impulse file, deconvolve and use output file.

You should get a more accurate frequency response with less noise. It's a little more hifi... But you'd be surprised how a lot of rooms don't require all the extra effort.

 

Obviously the field recorder with sweep approach isn't possible with the IRU, if you cant load files in. So I'm hoping theres still a way. It REALLY grinds when a company throw a function away for no good reason, and screw up your workflow.

[skijumptoes]

Oh that was interesting to read, thanks for the info. And yup, throwing away features is a pain - especially without warning. Elements like the Chord Track (I know it was buggy), and things like Waveburner i found annoying at the time when realising they were missing in LPX.

 

But you usually find a new workflow, and in fact the way music has gone Waveburner isn't a requirement like it was back in the day. However, i always got the impression that IR's seemed a much bigger deal/feature in LP9 than it does in LPX.

 

Can't wait to try some IR's myself over the christmas break, i plan on eating and drinking plenty so i could end up like ET when he's all dried up by the side of a riverbank with broken bits of electronics around him.... naked! lol

[Sascha Franck]

Say I have a bunch of effects on a track and want to condense ALL the eq ad space affecting elements into one IR... (the linear stuff obviously)

That is now impossible in Logic without some weird workaround, right?

 

No, there's a trick and you don't even need the IRU for it. Just place a neutral IR spike onto one track and send it through the entire shebang. Bounce down, re-import, trim and drag into Space Designer.

I'm doing this all the time when mixing cab/mic IRs for my guitar amp modeling duties. Works a treat.

[GeeMan]

No, there's a trick and you don't even need the IRU for it. Just place a neutral IR spike onto one track and send it through the entire shebang. Bounce down, re-import, trim and drag into Space Designer.

I'm doing this all the time when mixing cab/mic IRs for my guitar amp modeling duties. Works a treat.

 

Thnks, Sure.

Dirac spikes and "snap" impulses work, they contain all frequencies in the instantaneous impulse...

But for some sources the sweep gives a more accurate response and significantly reduced noise. All depends on the source and intended usage.

For cabs it can work fine because of the restricted frequency bandwidth, and the amps are noisy enough to mask the IR noise. I have many of these from a few years back.

But when I compare to sweep generated IRs on the same cabs, the responses are a little bit more detailed - if that suits the target application.

The speaker is moving for longer through all the frequencies and the various nodes and cancellations of the box cavity seem to develop in a slightly different way - both approaches work though.

 

I'll need a deconvolver for sure.

[Sascha Franck]

No, there's a trick and you don't even need the IRU for it. Just place a neutral IR spike onto one track and send it through the entire shebang. Bounce down, re-import, trim and drag into Space Designer.

I'm doing this all the time when mixing cab/mic IRs for my guitar amp modeling duties. Works a treat.

 

Thnks, Sure.

Dirac spikes and "snap" impulses work, they contain all frequencies in the instantaneous impulse...

But for some sources the sweep gives a more accurate response and significantly reduced noise. All depends on the source and intended usage.

 

Well, using a spike really only works in a digital environment. Tried to capture some real cabs with it and the sweep method was WAY more accurate.

 

I'll need a deconvolver for sure.

 

You could check Voxengos Deconvolver. Demo runs unlimited. Unfortunately, you'd need a VM with Windows for it.

[skijumptoes]

I've seen talk of deconvolvers on the REAPER forum, i don't know if it can do what you need natively?

Seems like reaverb plugin that comes with it has the feature.

 

Quick google:-

https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1907257&postcount=8

 

Perhaps start a new thread if this conversation continues?

[GeeMan]

Hey guys, It turns out that I had some graphics issue. The scrollbar was not visible nor usable and now I have restarted it's there and the convolver menu items ARE still there. SO sorry for any confusion.

[GeeMan]

 

Thnks, Sure.

Dirac spikes and "snap" impulses work, they contain all frequencies in the instantaneous impulse...

But for some sources the sweep gives a more accurate response and significantly reduced noise. All depends on the source and intended usage.

 

Well, using a spike really only works in a digital environment. Tried to capture some real cabs with it and the sweep method was WAY more accurate.

 

I'll need a deconvolver for sure.

 

You could check Voxengos Deconvolver. Demo runs unlimited. Unfortunately, you'd need a VM with Windows for it.

 

Thanks again.

 

The closest you get to real-world "spikes" are the starter pistol etc. 22 is fine for many rooms. The "clacker" I made was cool too. I used "Banger" type fireworks you can get from small newsagents/corner shops etc. too.

They have their own intrinsic frequency signature but you can still get good results, instantly. The bangers are not so consistent.

 

Yes I know the Voxengo. There are a few deconvolvers hidden in other apps.

[Sascha Franck]

The closest you get to real-world "spikes" are the starter pistol etc. 22 is fine for many rooms. The "clacker" I made was cool too. I used "Banger" type fireworks you can get from small newsagents/corner shops etc. too.

They have their own intrinsic frequency signature but you can still get good results, instantly. The bangers are not so consistent.

 

Fwiw, for quick and dirty on-the-road IR capturing, I occasionally just clapped my hands and then trimmed the clap out a bit (I own a Zoom H4 as well, btw., most excellent for these kinda things). Sure, little low end content and possibly rather midrangy, but sometimes EQ-ing things in works just fine. Also tried with balloons, but in the end I liked claps better.

I have once made a capture of a most beautiful sounding stairwell using that method - unfortunately the file got lost by a really dumb user (that'd be me) error and there seems to be no project file including it.

[GeeMan]

Yeah, balloons have a "tone". It's a 3D drumskin, I guess.

Yep, user error has lost me a few things too. LOL.

 

The reason I made the "clacker" was to get more bass, hi-top and volume. I guess you can smack two objects with a smooth flat surface together in a rush.

But yes, with claps you get a "softer" eq which may be what you want in the mix anyhow...

[Blue Monkey]

Anyone else experiencing issues with Regions and Alias Regions like the ones I describe in this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=140332

[skijumptoes]

Blue Monkey, I get some weirdness moving regions and aliases but nothing as defined as you posted in that thread. I.e. they just split in half but luckily they display on screen with the error so I can undo as I see it happen.

 

Very occasionally, and I don’t know what set of circumstances causes it. But seems more likely to occur when I’m zoomed in horizontally.

[Blue Monkey]

Blue Monkey, I get some weirdness moving regions and aliases but nothing as defined as you posted in that thread. I.e. they just split in half but luckily they display on screen with the error so I can undo as I see it happen.

 

Very occasionally, and I don’t know what set of circumstances causes it. But seems more likely to occur when I’m zoomed in horizontally.

 

Thanks for your reply skijumptoes!

 

Do you have any problems with regions not playing when this occurs?

 

Also, what OS are you on?

 

Obviously, these issues should not be occurring to any degree for any reason so I am now going to assume that it is a bug even though we, as yet, have not been able to reproduce the issue consistently.

 

I have returned to Logic 10.4.1 and am very disappointed. This is the first time I've had to revert to an older version to be able to keep working.

 

Thanks again!

[Multispace]

Noticed something strange just now:

tried to bounce tracks in place of 2 software instrument tracks (with Serum synths on them) and although it seems to bounce, no bounced audio can be found anywhere, also not in the bounces or audio files folder in the project folder. Also no new audio tracks were created.

 

Bouncing regions in place didn't work either (via File > Bounce menu).

 

Anyone else had this?

 

Mark

 

Edit: this was on a Mac Pro in my studio. Tried it on my Macbook and there it works. Strange....

[chucknkd]

STILL losing Melodyne ARA tuning, except now there's no particular order of 'play - save' etc... super frustrating cause its SO CLOSE

[eieio]

The issue with no audio sounding during Flex Pitch has been fixed. It's working as it should after I updated.

[David Nahmani]

Noticed something strange just now: (...)

This thread is for general 10.4.3 update discussion but in order for us to help you troubleshoot issues such as the one you're describing, start a new topic dedicated to that specific issue, thanks!

[Multispace]

Hi David, this issue was specific for 10.4.3, that's why I put it here.

 

Mark

[David Nahmani]

Hi David, this issue was specific for 10.4.3, that's why I put it here.

 

Mark

Understood, but still it's not the best way to attract attention to your issue. You'll get more attention and it will be more constructive for all of us if you start a new topic for your issue.

[Multispace]

Logic Pro 10.4.4 is released. Not worth a new topic:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

 

Mark

[Orthosie]

Logic Pro 10.4.4 is released. Not worth a new topic:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

 

Mark

 

Maybe a quick fix before they release 10.5 which might require an OS upgrade????