Dave Blackburn Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 I'm not sure whether it's compatibility with OS Ventura or Logic 10.7.5 causing it but the wonderful plugins from Plugin Alliance, which I use on every project, are crashing Logic repeatedly. Poof...and it's gone. I've been mixing a complex track for a couple of days and it's been happening a lot. Has anyone else been experiencing something similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 Have you tried booting Logic in safe mode to find out which one is causing the crash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 have you checked with plugin alliance? just to be sure you're either all up-to-date on your plugins, and/or that they're ventura-ready? were you on 10.7.4 & ventura previously? or did you update the OS & logic together? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Blackburn Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 I updated OS and Logic within a couple of days. Under Monterey and 10.7.4 I never had any issues with PA plugins crashing. I have written to their support. 4 hours ago, Atlas007 said: Have you tried booting Logic in safe mode to find out which one is causing the crash? I have not done that yet, but it seems any PA plugins that I used over the last few days can cause a crash by adjusting a parameter or even opening the GUI. But it's not always. I was able to finish my mix today that had several PA plugins on. I just had to restart (and save) often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 do you still have 10.7.4? you could try that. all my 3rd-party plugins worked in ventura from day1 of the OS betas. so perhaps an issue with plugin alliance? you could also try deleting logics preferences, restarting. or rebuild the audio cache (read up about this first! there are posts on this forum...) but i'd start with the developer, see what they say... good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Blackburn Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just now, fisherking said: do you still have 10.7.4? you could try that. all my 3rd-party plugins worked in ventura from day1 of the OS betas. so perhaps an issue with plugin alliance? you could also try deleting logics preferences, restarting. or rebuild the audio cache (read up about this first! there are posts on this forum...) but i'd start with the developer, see what they say... good luck! I don't have 10.7.4 and when I tried back-grading to Monterey it prevented me saying "this Mac cannot be downgraded to an earlier version" (paraphrasing). WTH! Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dave Blackburn said: I don't have 10.7.4 and when I tried back-grading to Monterey it prevented me saying "this Mac cannot be downgraded to an earlier version" (paraphrasing). WTH! Why is that? seriously, downgrading the OS is not a simple or easy task (you can google this if you really want to do that, but proceed with care). at this point, your best bet is to start with plugin-alliance, and try some of what i suggested. also, hopefully others here will have thoughts, this is a good forum (with lots of smarter people than myself)... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) Have you tried booting from a new user account? Does any of those plugins works via iLok? Are you using the Plugin Alliance Manager app? Edited November 7, 2022 by Atlas007 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Dave Blackburn Posted November 7, 2022 Author Solution Share Posted November 7, 2022 On 11/6/2022 at 1:22 PM, fisherking said: have you checked with plugin alliance? just to be sure you're either all up-to-date on your plugins, and/or that they're ventura-ready? were you on 10.7.4 & ventura previously? or did you update the OS & logic together? I just heard back from Plugin-Alliance and the answer is "We do not support Ventura yet" . So if you are planning on moving to Ventura, know that it will be a while before their plugins are compatible. It seems like Melodyne may not yet be either as that has been consistently crashing too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renan C. Anjos Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) Confirming the same issue. Changing the channel strip slot of any Plugin Alliance plugin will crash Logic 90% of the time. Never happened in 10.7.4 10.7.5 Ventura Intel Edited November 8, 2022 by Renan C. Anjos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 14 hours ago, Dave Blackburn said: I just heard back from Plugin-Alliance and the answer is "We do not support Ventura yet" . So if you are planning on moving to Ventura, know that it will be a while before their plugins are compatible. It seems like Melodyne may not yet be either as that has been consistently crashing too. see if you can find a version of LP 10.7.4 then... you could even try calling apple for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renan C. Anjos Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Here's a screen recording of the issue. First, I opened a random plugin from Softube and moved the slot. Then I opened MC77 from PA and did the same thing. Crashed right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Blackburn Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/8/2022 at 5:12 AM, fisherking said: see if you can find a version of LP 10.7.4 then... you could even try calling apple for this. Yeah, but then I'm right back at the "crashing on bounce" problem in Ventura which can't be downgraded, for some strange reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) This is a judgement-free zone 🙂, but the "solution" of course for all these little niggley workflow things is to never upgrade on day one of a new OS release, especially on a machine you require for production, and especially especially if you have no recovery plan to revert if you decide to give it a try. It seems no matter how many times this message is preached over the years/decades, people seem to not hear it - they don't have backups, can't revert, don't forsee the possibility of problems, and then when something doesn't work they're like "Help, what can I do?" If you upgrade to a brand a new macOS, it's very possible that things might be fine, but it's also very possible that various issues might happen, of varying severity in varying places, but it's really difficult to predict what those will be. I *was* thinking that this time, being on a brand new current machine on a current version of the previous OS, that I'm in a good place with my machine to upgrade to Ventura, especially from earlier reports from people saying all their plugins were fine and they weren't encountering significant problems etc - but now we are seeing drips and drabs of various issues being reported - PA plugins crashing, Eventide saying don't upgrade our stuff doesn't work, Valhalla and others having installer issues - most of these things aren't big things, and they will be addressed by developers who wish to continue to sell their plugins in the Mac market, but they will take time to shake out - particularly for notoriously slow-to-update plugin alliances with a large product catalog - and that's exactly why the sensible people wait to see how things shake out, to specifically not be able to put them in a position where some unexpected small issue becomes a production-affecting issue, with no idea of when it might be fixed. https://cdm.link/2022/11/macos-13-ventura-compatibility-plugins/ For people that thought it would be fine and upgraded anyway without a fallback strategy, your choices are basically - deal with whatever niggles you are having for as long as necessary for them to be fixed, find alternative workflows in the meantime, or backup your stuff, trash your computer and reinstall Monterey, and all your apps/preferences/data from scratch/backups - which is of course huge pain to do. Their aren't really any other quick fixes to issues you may be experiencing I'm afraid. And this is why I always backup my full system before updating, and wait and see user reports, specifically around software tools, plugins and utilities I rely on, before making the choice to upgrade, and making sure I can revert, or leave my existing system in place, so I have a fallback that leaves me in full control of my system, at least when an OS upgrade isn't forced upon us, like it can be with new machines. This just makes sense to me... Edited November 9, 2022 by des99 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Too late, of course, but for the future, I suggest downloading the spreadsheet linked here: and updating it with your own personal set of plugins used, with links to compatibility statements and the list that Pro-Tools-Expert puts out for every major upgrade, and to NOT UPGRADE UNTIL ALL THOSE ORANGE BOXES ARE CHECKBOXED WHITE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, analogika said: Too late, of course, but for the future, I suggest downloading the spreadsheet linked here: and updating it with your own personal set of plugins used, with links to compatibility statements and the list that Pro-Tools-Expert puts out for every major upgrade, and to NOT UPGRADE UNTIL ALL THOSE ORANGE BOXES ARE CHECKBOXED WHITE. that's a great list, but, just pointing out: 'not supported' does not automatically mean 'not working'. as i've mentioned before, all my 3rd-party plugins have worked since ventura beta day 1 (and continue to work); 99% of my sources and effects are, in fact, 3rd party. personally, i would google, check this forum, and contact the developers. a plugin may work fine, even before it is officially 'supported'. but, to be fair, i get the idea of 'better being safe than sorry'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, fisherking said: that's a great list, but, just pointing out: 'not supported' does not automatically mean 'not working'. as i've mentioned before, all my 3rd-party plugins have worked since ventura beta day 1 (and continue to work); 99% of my sources and effects are, in fact, 3rd party. personally, i would google, check this forum, and contact the developers. a plugin may work fine, even before it is officially 'supported'. but, to be fair, i get the idea of 'better being safe than sorry'. The list I posted isn't a resource. It's a starting point for people to create their own list and get their own s#!+ in order, so that situations like the one described in the OP don't happen. Obviously, stuff may be working fine. Especially if it's already been installed prior to upgrading. But this thread concerns a situation where something is NOT fine, and it needn't be the plugin itself, but some interaction with another installed plugin that isn't working properly and causing stuff to go haywire. Upgrading to Ventura now if you need a working production environment is foolhardy and completely unnecessary, and the fact that it happens to be working for YOU doesn't change that. You're used to living at the limit. 🙂 The only conceivable situation where I'd risk it at this point is if I HAD to replace this machine on short notice — but I'd be prepared to kick a bunch of software at least temporarily (I keep my mission-critical MainStage concerts free of third-party plugins precisely for this reason). Edited November 9, 2022 by analogika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, analogika said: The list I posted isn't a resource. It's a starting point for people to create their own list and get their own s#!+ in order, so that situations like the one described in the OP don't happen. Obviously, stuff may be working fine. Especially if it's already been installed prior to upgrading. But this thread concerns a situation where something is NOT fine, and it needn't be the plugin itself, but some interaction with another installed plugin that isn't working properly and causing stuff to go haywire. Upgrading to Ventura now if you need a working production environment is foolhardy and completely unnecessary, and the fact that it happens to be working for YOU doesn't change that. You're used to living at the limit. 🙂 The only conceivable situation where I'd risk it at this point is if I HAD to replace this machine on short notice — but I'd be prepared to kick a bunch of software at least temporarily (I keep my mission-critical MainStage concerts free of third-party plugins precisely for this reason). i hear you, really. i also hear what @fisherking said as well... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onerez Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just found this thread…. My info is that with all the should have or wait…. LOL. I got the new MacBook Pro. Ventura and latest Logic on it. 99% of plugins I have work (Softube,SoundToys,UAD…etc..). But not the Plugin Alliance ones. I get the whole supported non supported…. I just wish we had a time frame on when they will work? I am curious as to why sooo many work and not theirs. Anyway. My bad for upgrading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) Plugin Alliance are notoriously slow with updates. M1 native support was supposed to be done early this year, and while most of them are done now, we're still waiting for the Lindell plugins native versions... Edited December 21, 2022 by des99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onerez Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, des99 said: Plugin Alliance are notoriously slow with updates. M1 native support was supposed to be done early this year, and while most of them are done now, we're still waiting for the Lindell plugins native versions... So….. do you have any of the brainworx ones that work ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, onerez said: do you have any of the brainworx ones that work ok? I do, yes, all my brainworx/PA plugins work fine, but then I'm not on Ventura, as Plugin Alliance have compatibility issues with Ventura. I don't update OS's until I'm happy with the compatibility of my important software... I was just commenting as you asked about update time frames, saying PA are notoriously slow for issuing updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onerez Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, des99 said: I do, yes, all my brainworx/PA plugins work fine, but then I'm not on Ventura, as Plugin Alliance have compatibility issues with Ventura. I don't update OS's until I'm happy with the compatibility of my important software... I was just commenting as you asked about update time frames, saying PA are notoriously slow for issuing updates. Thanks! Yes. Hides head in shame for updating too soon. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagibraitner Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 same here, what a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynX Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Same for me. I say a little prayer anytime I try to open any PA plugin in Logic. Hopeful for an update soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, SynX said: Hopeful for an update soon That's what I said a year a half ago about the Lindell 50/80 M1 native updates. I'm *still* hoping. Any day now. Any day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onerez Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I guess what I don’t really understand is I have most all the major manufacturer plug-ins and they all work with Ventura I’d like to know what the holdup is here and why such a long delay maybe that’s me just being selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) They have a large plugin catalog, developed by a wide range of different developers that they have to co-ordinate and ask for fixes. And they are historically slow in general at issuing updates and doing bug-fixes - it just doesn't seem that important for them to prioritise. They've been sitting on M1 updates from various developers who delivered them well over a year ago, and they *still* haven't been released. That, plus the monster parties they've been having to celebrate Dirk leaving, so nothing's been getting done... Edited January 17, 2023 by des99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 note to self: don't buy any plugin alliance plugins. also note to self: never get too attached to any 3rd-party plugin... 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I've been really happy with their stuff, and since I've usually only upgraded OSen once my plugins are certified, it's been rock-solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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