Melodyne ARA native support

[vincentzaalberg]

A couple of years down the line of silicone chips and still no native ARA support for Melodyne. I have checked multiple times and Celemony insists on Apple having to fix this on their end because of technical reasons. Rosetta mode is significantly more CPU hungry and frankly way too much time has passed for users to still work around this issue.

I guess this is basically a call to arms. What can we do to send a clear signal this needs to be fixed asap!?

[des99]

It doesn't work because under Apple silicon, plugins don't run in the host (Logic), they run isolated from it, and thus the communication method that ARA2 requires between the plugin and the host isn't available.

Both Apple and Celemony are well aware of this, and hopefully we'll have a solution in the future, but until then, you have to use the existing workarounds, that you already know.

But if you want to send in a Feedback, you can do that (although it will I'm sure just be marked as a "duplicate", and that's the last thing you'll hear about it)...

Edited October 2, 2023 by des99

[vincentzaalberg]

Thanks Des99. 
Well I’ve worked in Rosetta mode when using Melodyne so I could use ARA up until now. But lately my projects and mixes got bigger, more CPU heavy. I really need native mode without being able to bounce down to audio until the final approval because of the extensive revisions involved when working with stock music publishers. 
Today I basically ditched ARA and went back to Transfer mode all over again so I can work natively. I just hate managing the Melodyne transfer files as the in DAW workflow. 

[des99]

It's not ideal, but it is what it is currently.... I'm generally ok with regular Transfer mode for my needs but if you're doing extensive edits on a lot of tracks, it does get tedious quickly...

[Story Time]

Given the fact it’s been 3 years since the first M1 MacBooks came out, I’ve honestly lost hope that Apple will ever bring native ARA2 compatibility to Logic, even though virtually all of my 3rd party plugins are silicon compatible at this point. I’ve been googling for updates on the matter since I got my M1 Pro MacBook 2 years ago, and there hasn’t been a single word or indication from Apple about it. Hopefully, ARA3 will come out in the near future and solve the issue, but I know that’s wishful thinking.

- Alex

[sunbrother]

ARA support in general feels like something that was put off for a long time and then brought out to say “there, we did it,” and I guess they didn’t anticipate ever needing to re-do it. So when the new process management system broke it, maybe there was no bandwidth to fix it. They also did that with the Chord Track when it turned out to require more work. Which is unfortunate- if the same thing happened to Live Loops or some core thing I doubt they’d just remove the page.

[Story Time]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:52 PM, sunbrother said:

ARA support in general feels like something that was put off for a long time and then brought out to say “there, we did it,” and I guess they didn’t anticipate ever needing to re-do it. So when the new process management system broke it, maybe there was no bandwidth to fix it. They also did that with the Chord Track when it turned out to require more work. Which is unfortunate- if the same thing happened to Live Loops or some core thing I doubt they’d just remove the page.

If I wasn't 11 years deep into Logic, I'd have switched to another DAW by now. I use 2-3 different ARA plugins heavily across all of my vocals (Melodyne/RePitch and VocAlign), so giving up the massive convenience and time savings of ARA is out of the question. The main issue I have with Rosetta is how long it takes my projects to load, as well as general bugginess likely related to my audio routing and Apollo (which has its own host of crash-inducing incompatibilities with silicon). Don't get me wrong, it's still far preferable to my 2015 MacBook Pro in its final years, but these are the kinds of issues I would expect to be at the forefront of getting fixed from the beginning, not ignored even 3 years down the line. I'm usually super patient when it comes to this stuff, but there's seemingly no sign of life whatsoever. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Story Time

[sunbrother]

Still not fixed in 10.8. Pretty wild.

[des99]

As has been said a lot previously, it's not simple, as running plugins out of process means the way ARA uses to access the audio data from the DAW is simply not available. It will require Logic, Celemony, and macOS engineering to provide a mechanism for plugins running in AUHostingService to communicate with Logic. As far as we know, this is being worked on... but a simple Logic update won't enable this.

For now, you'll need to use Logic under Rosetta if ARA is important to you, as in this mode, plugins run inside Logic and ARA is therefore technically possible.

[sunbrother]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

As has been said a lot previously, it's not simple, as running plugins out of process means the way ARA uses to access the audio data from the DAW is simply not available. It will require Logic, Celemony, and macOS engineering to provide a mechanism for plugins running in AUHostingService to communicate with Logic. As far as we know, this is being worked on... but a simple Logic update won't enable this.

For now, you'll need to use Logic under Rosetta if ARA is important to you, as in this mode, plugins run inside Logic and ARA is therefore technically possible.

I know it’s not simple, and I thank you for another explanation of their issues with ARA running out of process. I still think it’s ridiculous.

[des99]

1 minute ago, sunbrother said:

I still think it’s ridiculous.

I get that. How's working in Rosetta on your system? Is it workable for you in the meantime?

[sunbrother]

Just now, des99 said:

I get that. How's working in Rosetta on your system? Is it workable for you in the meantime?

Other plugins I rely on don’t function well in Rosetta or have outstanding bugs when using Rosetta. The extra CPU hit isn’t terrible but the loading times are.

[des99]

Yeah, it's always annoying to have these kinds of varying compatibility issues, usually revolving around significant underlying tech changes. I think we all want to see ARA come back, but at this rate, if it requires changes to AUHostingService in macOS (which it seems it does), it may not happen until a new macOS version (if at all).

For my uses of Melodyne, my workaround which is acceptable to me is using it the older, non-ARA way, and keep Logic running natively, but obviously this is not ideal if you're a heavy Melodyne user.

But, it is what it is, and workaround we must until the situation changes...

[David MacNeill]

I'm confused. If I have to use an ARA plugin (I use both Melodyne and RePitch for tuning) in Transfer mode, can't I just delete the transfer files after the song is finished? Once I have bounced the tuned rack, that should be the end of the transfer, right? Or do I need to keep all those giant-ass 32-bit AIFF files in the Transfer folder forever?

Edited November 7, 2023 by David MacNeill

[sunbrother]

14 minutes ago, des99 said:

For my uses of Melodyne, my workaround which is acceptable to me is using it the older, non-ARA way, and keep Logic running natively, but obviously this is not ideal if you're a heavy Melodyne user.

Sadly, I use it in some capacity every project. One of the big factors in switching over to Logic was when they finally supported ARA2, and I've been waiting for them to fix it longer than I was able to use it.

[Story Time]

3 hours ago, sunbrother said:

Still not fixed in 10.8. Pretty wild.

Not to mention there were still multiple ARA updates (including a Melodyne-specific one) for everyone running on 4+ year old hardware, or via the “transitional” Rosetta…

[Story Time]

I think the most annoying part of this is that even Reaper, Pro Tools, and I believe Cubase have had native silicon ARA for a while, while Apple's own DAW doesn't running natively on their own chips, running their own OS on their own computer. I know complaining doesn't solve anything though, so I'll get off my soapbox now 🤷‍♂️

[des99]

Yes, because those DAWs use their own plugin formats running directly inside them, like Logic used to do (and still does) on Intel. This makes ARA possible - just as it is in Logic. It also means plugins that crash can take down the host.

[atson67]

I have started to use Studio one on projects, where lead and backing vocals are crucial (that means most of them). Melodyne integration in S1 is dope. Flexpitch or Melodyne non ARA in Logic native do Not cut it for me in vocal intense projects. I am much faster in Logic after 15 yrs but this Melodyne issue made me take that step.

[steveLpx1]

@atson67...same here, so close but no banana. My "backup app" has been Reaper, and a much reconfigured workflow in LPx...fwiw,hth.../s~

[atson67]

Has there been any update in the Logic / Melodyne department ?

[des99]

Nothing has changed in this regard, and no updates have been release to either macOS, Logic, or Melodyne mentioning anything to do with ARA... so no. When/If the situation does change, I'm sure it will be covered here...

[gp71]

On 4/7/2024 at 5:45 PM, des99 said:

Nothing has changed in this regard, and no updates have been release to either macOS, Logic, or Melodyne mentioning anything to do with ARA... so no. When/If the situation does change, I'm sure it will be covered here...

Fingers crossed. I sometimes regret discovering the ARA mode after years of happy old-style Melodyne action, because once I got used to it there was no going back and I became dependent before the issues discussed here appeared.

My workaround now though is to commit and bounce each after I get to three tracks loaded up with ARA, because not only does my system get unstable and sluggish but I get anomalies, the worst of which is that Melodyne will sometimes forget all the tweaks.

Also, I can forget ARA is in play if they are hanging around too long, and might then move into flex-mode for rhythmic edits to notes tweaked inside ARA...which Melodyne does not like.

I find it better to enjoy the luxury for a while and then commit. This frees up the system for another three if required, or even return to those bounced ones later.

This is something I do a lot because I work with a lot of improvised three part harmonies under a lead Vox, and over the lifetime of a mix these harmonies often evolve without access to the humans who sang them.