Neil Gilmartin Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) If you've got a finished mix ready to send for mastering that is peaking at around -0.5db, but only in the very loudest part, and none of the individual tracks are close to peaking at any point in the song (using pre-fader metering), is it fair enough to just slap a Gain plug-in on the Stereo Out (a completely clean Stereo Out, with no processing on there) and just turn the whole thing down by around -5 / -6db? In other words, if your levels are fine everywhere except the Stereo Out, which is a little too hot in select spots, is the Gain plug-in approach a reasonable way to proceed? Cheers! Edited March 23 by Neil Gilmartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 15 minutes ago, Neil Gilmartin said: If you've got a finished mix ready to send for mastering that is peaking at around -0.5db, but only in the very loudest part, and none of the individual tracks are close to peaking at any point in the song (using pre-fader metering), is it fair enough to just slap a Gain plug-in on the Stereo Out (a completely clean Stereo Out, with no processing on there) and just turn the whole thing down by around -5 / -6db? I wouldn't turn it down, just send it as is. As long as it does not reach 0 dBFS, you're fine. Also I wouldn't use pre-fader metering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 I always use pre-fader metering! Why do you advise against it? If you're mastering yourself rather than sending it off, would you just use a Gain plug-in in the situation above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Just now, Neil Gilmartin said: I always use pre-fader metering! Why do you advise against it? I don't advise against it, I rarely find it useful. Post fader metering allows you to see the level of the audio signal as it is routed to your Stereo Out, which can be useful to determine how that track contribute to the level of the mix. What purpose does pre-fader metering serve during mixing? 2 minutes ago, Neil Gilmartin said: would you just use a Gain plug-in in the situation above? No, I would just leave the gain alone. I mean you're going to bounce that file, peaking at -0.5 dBFS, and then import it into a new Logic project ot master it there right? That's fine, so I wouldn't change the gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 (edited) I guess I just got used to it because it allows me to check that the signal isn't in fact peaking behind-the-scenes, possibly affecting some of the vintage emulation plug-ins I use at times. I still sometimes change settings in plug-ins while mixing, so I like to see whether the signal looks healthy - and I can still easily adjust the volume fader if I think a track is too quiet or too loud. But yeah, I should give post-fader a try. I guess I just got used to using pre-fader metering and never thought to change. You've jolted me out of my dogmatic pre-fader slumber. There's only one David Nahmani 🙂 (Variation on a football chant in case you're familiar with English culture). Cheers for the advice on the mastering, too! Edited March 23 by Neil Gilmartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 minute ago, Neil Gilmartin said: I guess I just got used to it because it allows me to check that the signal isn't in fact peaking behind-the-scenes, possibly affecting some of the vintage emulation plug-ins I use at times. Pre-fader metering doesn't really let you check that the signal isn't overloading any plug-ins because it's the level of the signal after all the plug-ins, but before it's affected by the volume fader. So a low pre-fader metering value does not mean you aren't feeding one of the plug-ins a value that's too hot (if that plug-in is an analog emulation and has a sweet spot). Conversely, a high pre-fader metering value does not mean that you are outside of the sweet spot range at the input of the plug-in. Most of the time this isn't really necessary but if it is necessary to hit a specific sweet spot for an analog modeling plug-in then use that plug-in's input meter (or if there isn't one, then insert a metering plug-in before that plug-in). That's the only way to meter what you're really trying to meter. 2 minutes ago, Neil Gilmartin said: Cheers for the advice on the mastering, too! You're welcome, there are a lot of myths out there so I'm just trying to debunk them. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 (edited) Cheers, David. You're a legend. I do know that pre-fader metering checks the level after the plug-ins, but I guess I learned (or misunderstood!) somewhere along the way that it can function like a final red flag / warning to go back and check your signal flow. Speaking of myths, given that we are now living in the age of DAWs, perhaps channel-strip level clipping doesn't really matter much anymore (unless you're using one of those vintage emulations designed with a sweet spot). Sometimes I hear mixing tutors say, 'it's just good practice to keep your signals healthy' in the context of talking about internal clipping when using standard plug-ins, but part of me can't help but think that this way of thinking is partly a hang-up / residue from the analog-only days. I'm not advocating for peaking all your channel strips, but the odd one here or there might not matter... Edited March 23 by Neil Gilmartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 David, I was thinking about what you said about gain-staging a pre-master, and I'm interested to know why you think that having headroom of around -6db for a pre-master is a myth? If you don't turn down the track, won't the mastering engineer turn it down anyway to have sonic space available for doing their thing? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution David Nahmani Posted March 24 Solution Share Posted March 24 6 hours ago, Neil Gilmartin said: I'm interested to know why you think that having headroom of around -6db for a pre-master is a myth? If you don't turn down the track, won't the mastering engineer turn it down anyway to have sonic space available for doing their thing? Not necessarily, no. Keep in mind that if you're going to send your mix to a mastering engineer, you don't know exactly how they're going to work with it and the level of your mix, as long as it's reasonable (let's say it's somewhere within the -8 to 0 dBFS range), doesn't really matter. It's easy enough for the mastering engineer to apply whatever gain adjustment he needs at any point they want in their mastering process. Now what if the mastering engineer wants the mix to peak at -0.5 dBFS, and you had your mix at -0.5 dBFS but then you turned it down to -6 dBFS, and now they have to turn it back up to -0.5 dBFS? The mastering engineer may or may not need to turn it down. Or up. If he wants to turn it down... he can just turn it down! There's no need for you to assume that he will need to do one thing or another, and do it for him. Just like if your mix is peaking at -5.2 and is fine, I would not insert a gain plug-in to bring the mix up to -0.5 dB or whatever other arbitrary value because I think the mastering engineer may want to turn it up. It works both ways. As long as the level of your mix is reasonable, leave it be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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