n6smith Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Just as a bit of an update.... (..and note, this was not a professionally done comparison ... just a simple try-out to see what would happen..) I took a project complete with all plugins and several audio files and exported it to one of the new 15" 2.0GHz 4GB 5400 RPM HD Macbook Pros.. On my 2.0GHz 8GB Twin 7200 RPM HD MMS (Running the same project on the System drive to discount running it on a separate drive) it runs smoothly without issue.. On the MBP, I got various issues relating to slow hard drives and lack of CPU power.. I ran both inn 32bit mode to discount the extra memory on the MMS and still had no issues with the MMS) Amazing what an extra 4 GB of men (when used..) and those 7200 HDs makes... given the rest of the specs are pretty much the same... Anyhow.. I'm still loving my MMS... and yeah.. The thought of 'noding' it via Thunderbolt to my other MMS sure 'wets my whistle' but for now, I'm really happy with it, just as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrsian Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks a lot for the updates I'm sold on the mini server can't wait to get one when my old macbook pro sells. If anyone in NZ is keen to buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRdungeon Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I ended up going with a 2.2GHz macbook pro instead, this thing screams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 One further bit of info... I upgraded the memory of my second MMS to 8 GB via Amazon for $38 (Including a mail in rebate of $10) Corsair 8 GB DDR3 Laptop Memory Kit CMSO8GX3M2A1333C9 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002YUF8ZG Nice deal and the memory works just fine.... and even without the mail in rebate it still would have cost me only $48... which is a pretty good deal in itself. Also compatible with the newer Macbook Pros as well... according the various reviews on the Amazon website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Okay... It's been just over a month since I switched from my iMac to my 2011 Mac Mini Server ( MMS) for all my work so I thought I'd share my thoughts here... Positives 1) It is blazingly fast...fast...fast.... Oh and did i mention it's fast? 2) It's surprisingly quiet. The fans do kick in every so often when i am doing so heavy work but compared to my iMac, it's quiet and frankly the fan noise from my Glyphs is louder.. 3) No technical issues in regards to hardware, at all. It's been solid and very reliable so far. 4) It's so easy to move it around... I took it with me to a client's home about 100 miles away, plugged it into his TV via the HDMI and played the mixes to him through his HiFi while doing so quick edits on the fly, which was great... The ability to easily plug into any TV or Monitor has been a bigger bonus than I originally expected. So much better than trying to squeeze in around a laptop and working with a small screen... though of course, with the aid of adapters i could achieve the same thing with a laptop. 5) The twin built in 500GB 7200 RPM drives are a perfect combination to use with a Logic Setup. I store my projects and main sample sets on the 2nd drive with the primary drive being reserved for the OS and Logic itself along with plugins. They are also quite fast I've found and I have had no issues with using them along with Logic. To me they are faster than any of my FW800 Glyphs but I do have a Portable Glyph which contains my less used samples that I can take with me, if needed. 6) Very cheap ( $38 ) to upgrade to 8GB of memory thanks to the deal at Amazon that i mentioned earlier in this thread and doing the upgrade itself, given the screw off bottom of the MMS, was simplicity itself. 7) Worked out of the box with my Motu Ultralite, again adding to the ease of portability as well. 8) The WiFi reception seems a lot stronger and more reliable than any of my iMacs or MBPs. There is one room in my house where i could never get a stable signal from my Airport Extreme but with the MMS it was solid. A useful and unexpected bonus! 9) The MMS runs remarkably cool to the touch given how quiet and infrequently the fans seem to run 'flat out'. Negatives: 1) Lion. I had some compatibility issues with some of my plugins (and the couple of known issues with Logic itself) upon using Lion initially but over the last month, many of my plugins received updates and so this has lessened greatly. Not the fault of the MMS itself but given it comes with Lion preinstalled and installing Snow Leopard on one, is a bit complicated I thought this did fall into the negative group. 2) I miss the FW400 port on my iMac. Not a huge biggie but still, I used it on the Mac to connect a couple of drives for extra storage and backup and now those drives are redundant. The USB ports and FW800 have worked just fine however. 3) I had an issue with my magic Mouse being recognized by the MMS as a Mighty Mouse instead of a Magic Mouse that frankly drove me nuts as i couldn't use the mouse based gestures with Lion. Despite quite a number of hours on the phone with Apple, we never resolved this issue until they switched out my mouse for a new one and then, right away it was recognized correctly. No explanation as to what caused this issue. It could have been a bad mouse or some weird bug with Lion but whatever it was, it is now fixed. 4) Oddly enough I missed the built in cam of an iMac as I use with frequently to chat with clients along with FaceTime. Picked up one of the Logitech C910 HD cams for about $40 from Costco and problem solved. 5) The infrared seems touchy as to directional response. I have to have the MMS almost always 'square' on' to the remote for the remote to work reliably. 6) The power button on the corner of the back of the MMS can be a little tricky to press correctly. This seems to be a minor issue on just one of my MMSs as on the other one, it's no issue at all so maybe a slight difference in assembly? 7) The lack of a built in CD/DVD drive is a minor issue but using an external CD/DVD drive resolves this without having to outlay much extra cash. I should also say, I rarely use the CD/DVD drive anyhow except to burn CDs of music and I found with my iMac that I ended up getting a proper external CD duplicator anyhow, for ease of use and operation/speed... Summary: As you can probably tell, I absolutely love my MMS for the price.... I have 2 and I am going to be purchasing one more to replace my 3.06 iMac at the office... I'm also thinking about getting one of the cheaper i5 MMs to replace my aging 2008 Mac Mini that i use as a multimedia center in the den. The small footprint, low cost, speed and even the esthetic look of it, wins the day for me. For me and my needs, Apple really scored a home run with the MMS. If anyone has any questions.. feel free to post 'em up and if I can, I'll answer them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonik Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I have some questions if that's ok? What type of VIs do you use? How many tracks can you get running of some of the more 'heavy' VIs? Have you run Evan's benchmarks test yet? Also, any chance you've tried noding or using ve pro with it yet? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) Jonik, Omnisphere on my iMac 3.06 usually ran out of CPU before it ran out of memory (in 32bit mode) where as my MMS runs out of memory (again with Logic in 32bit mode) before it runs out of CPU horsepower it seems! In 64bit mode I haven't really pushed Logic using any one Vi but I have been working on a recent track that uses 18 tracks of Omni without issue. However, of course, it depending on what each track of Omni is using in terms of single/dual voices and so on.. but so far it clearly blasts away my older iMac... I have also just finished a track using 23 instances of Orchestra samples such as L.A.S.S and EWQL Symphonic Orchestra (though not the newer PLAY version but the older Kontakt version as Play I find, is really a CPU hog and a bit buggy for my tastes....) ... with Kontakt 5 and again, I could get nowhere near that using the iMac whereas the MMS doesn't seem to struggle at all. Finally, I also am currently working on a track with all kinds of different Vi's such as Alchemy, Zebra, Kontakt, TruePianos, String Studio, Massive, some of the Logic built in Vi's... and a host of different FX including several instances of Guitar Rig and T-Rack 3 on the main output which is usually a real drain on resources..... and I'm up to 53 separate tracks so far without issue though of course, not all of them are playing at the same time but even so, this is far and away, more than i could ever use on my iMac... However, again.. my MMS seems to run out of usable memory before it runs out of CPU doing what I do... (I'm thinking about upgrading my Logic MMS to 16 GB now.. if i can find a suitable set of mem chips for the right price..) but your experiences may differ depending on your use and method of recording in Logic. I have never run Evan's Benchmarks. Do a Google for Mac Mini Server 2011 benchmarks to see several tests done in the last couple of months by various websites... I haven't benchmarked it myself... but from a purely non-technical viewpoint, it seems to scream along quite nicely compared to what i am used to... which is not surprising given it based on a i7 quad core 2.00Ghz.. I have recently tried noding it with my other MMS that i just purchased (without any tech issues I might add) but honestly, I haven't got to the point of pushing either of them hard enough to see what would happen. I'll probably get around to doing that with the next project or so, I am planning to do which will require, from what i understand... around 35+ instances of Kontakt along with quite a few FX plugins so it should be interesting, to see what noding it up does to take the load off the primary MMS. I'll post up my experiences here, when/if I get around to doing that... Hope this helps... Edited September 21, 2011 by n6smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonik Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks very much, that did help! It's nice to know it can cope with large numbers of VIs before choking, especially if it's an 8gb RAM issue and not cpu or io bottleneck. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzbubble Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 n6smith: Great posts... Your thoughts and comments are quite appreciated! I too am considering making a MMS my "main rig". I'm not sure if you covered this previously, but have you any experience running two displays? (I score to picture and typically feed my Quick Time movies through the "External Video Output" setting to the "Digital Cinema Desktop" of the second display via Video settings.) Also... Am I to understand correctly that you are also running the L.A.S.S. software / library along with Logic and all the other VI's you mentioned??? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 ... but have you any experience running two displays? Also... Am I to understand correctly that you are also running the L.A.S.S. software / library along with Logic and all the other VI's you mentioned??? Unfortunately, no.. I haven't really spent any time using more than one monitor with the MMS. It's on my list of things to do.. once I get my new Thunderbolt Display that I have ordered but as yet, no... As for L.A.S.S.. Yes.. and for a recent project that I have just started.. EWQL's Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass too... though again, I am not using the Play Engine too much as I find it still somewhat buggy at times so it's almost all mainly L.A.S.S, which i believe is one of the best string libraries out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzbubble Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Thanks Nigel! I'm in the middle of a few projects, so probably won't pull the trigger until next year. I'll keep an eye out for more of your posts. I do own L.A.S.S. already but run it from a second G5, MIDI over LAN. I was always under the impression that one machine couldn't handle it all. I'm glad to hear it works for you. I'd love to keep everything in one box. thanks again. - jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonik Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Audiobro are a bit cautious re single computers running lass. I can pretty much play (mostly) full divisi on my 2.8 mbp with 8gb RAM but it's a struggle to get anything else out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Just another quick update.... I went over to a studio belonging to a friend of mine today... and he just installed the following setup in his main Computer room 1 x MMS 2 x MM i7 2.7Ghz (BTO) Vienna Ensemble Pro Total Price with Monitor and VEPro +Key (He uses a KVM Switch to select the computer on the screen and he is using wired mice and keyboards because there is no Bluetooth KVM switch available... nor any wired gesture device which is a pain given they are all running Lion...) $3270..... Sounds a lot but remember that is for three high powered i7 computers plus a 27 inch Samsung Monitor plus KVM and wired keyboard and mouse plus VE Pro so a pretty good deal overall compared to what you could spend on a Mac Pro... I have never used VEPro myself but after watching how powerful his system is, using the MMs to offload his plugins and samples.. I was stunned. Needless to say, I ordered a copy tonight..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonik Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Sounds good. Keep us updated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holywilly Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 just a dumb question, is Logic Pro running 64-bit on MMS i7 and does it hyperthread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 just a dumb question, is Logic Pro running 64-bit on MMS i7 and does it hyperthread? Yes... Running Logic Pro in 64bit mode on MMS i7. I do see both real and virtual cores being used by Logic... bringing it to a total of 8 cores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holywilly Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 just a dumb question, is Logic Pro running 64-bit on MMS i7 and does it hyperthread? Yes... Running Logic Pro in 64bit mode on MMS i7. I do see both real and virtual cores being used by Logic... bringing it to a total of 8 cores. Thanks! after countless hours of researching and finally read this forum, I'm sold! I'll grab MMS right after I finish my current project this month! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlet S. Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm loving this thread as its confirming the MMS for my studio upgrade. I'd love to hear of anyone's results on Evan's benchmark with their MMS http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/371545-logic-pro-multicore-benchmarktest.html I also can't help wondering what Apple think of this. They are obviously in the business of making great computers, but the MMS has directed me away from a mac pro or a new mbp. Maybe the next wave of machines will put the apparently outstanding grunt to €€€ ratio of the MMS in perspective. Or maybe Logic X will require serious machine power. Or maybe I should shut the hell up and just buy one quickly before someone in Cupertino wonders why some pro audio guys aren't buying mac pros anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holywilly Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I use logic mainly for music composition using VI like kontakt & PLAY, I don't really do audio recording. I usually have 20+ tracks of VI, I expect the new MMS could handle those heavy VI!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookatthisguy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Audiobro are a bit cautious re single computers running lass. I can pretty much play (mostly) full divisi on my 2.8 mbp with 8gb RAM but it's a struggle to get anything else out of it. Sidebar: I've been eyeing LASS for a while, but I've been iffy about my computer keeping up. So for sake of comparision, what's your processor? Or MBP model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonik Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 sorry thought I said... 2.8 core2duo mid 2009. still have 5400 internal, with 7200 firewire 800 external. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookatthisguy Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Well, that's somewhat promising to me then… my processor is a bit slower, but I've got a faster internal HD, so by psuedo-math, I should expect the same result. hah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm loving this thread as its confirming the MMS for my studio upgrade. I'd love to hear of anyone's results on Evan's benchmark with their MMS Okay, I'm not a great fan of such tests/benchmarks because to me, there are too many other variables to take into account in real world situations that can cause wide variances in performance but... for the sake of answering those here who asked for MMS's results here is what I got.. Average number of tracks over 20 runs... - 66 tracks.. Highest number of tracks - Run #3- 67 Lowest number of tracks - Run #1 - 60 Not sure why such a wide variance between run #1 and #3... Maybe a first run thing... Run #2 was 65 tracks. After that I always got either 65. 67 or more usually 66 tracks without issue My results seem to match up pretty closely with the general results published on Gearslutz, for the 2011 MMS. Please note I have upgraded my MMS to 8GB (2 x Corsair 4GB) from the standard 4GB provided by Apple (2 x Samsung 2GB) but other than that, it is a standard $999 2011 MMS from Apple with no other mods done.. HTH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holywilly Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'm about to purchase the MMS as my composing computer, but which monitor display work best with MMS via HDMI port? I'm thinking of getting Dell 24" which support up to 1920 X 1220. What are the recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'm about to purchase the MMS as my composing computer, but which monitor display work best with MMS via HDMI port? I'm thinking of getting Dell 24" which support up to 1920 X 1220.What are the recommendations? I grabbed a well rated Samsung 23" for $178 at Costco and it works great @ 1920 x 1200 . Some of Dell's monitors are well rated too... I use the DVI port on the Samsung however.. and not the HDMI.. as for me, the screen is somewhat crisper. I also use my MMS with my Samsung 42" TV via HDMI along with several other TV's when I go mobile with it... and it works great at 1080P but again, I still prefer using it via the DVI adaptor that came with my MMS when possible. Just a personal preference of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holywilly Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I'm about to purchase the MMS as my composing computer, but which monitor display work best with MMS via HDMI port? I'm thinking of getting Dell 24" which support up to 1920 X 1220.What are the recommendations? I grabbed a well rated Samsung 23" for $178 at Costco and it works great @ 1920 x 1200 . Some of Dell's monitors are well rated too... I use the DVI port on the Samsung however.. and not the HDMI.. as for me, the screen is somewhat crisper. I also use my MMS with my Samsung 42" TV via HDMI along with several other TV's when I go mobile with it... and it works great at 1080P but again, I still prefer using it via the DVI adaptor that came with my MMS when possible. Just a personal preference of mine. are you using the HDMI to DVI cable for the display? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Yes he is. That cable comes with the MMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Yes he is. That cable comes with the MMS. Yep... Don't quite understand why the picture is slightly crisper given the signal originates via the HDMI port but it is, to my eyes at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnstile Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Are you running Lion Server that was shipped with it? I was thinking of re-imaging it with a standard Lion install. Not sure which would perform better. I know you can have all of the server services off but what else is running in the background on the server? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Are you running Lion Server that was shipped with it? I was thinking of re-imaging it with a standard Lion install. Not sure which would perform better. I know you can have all of the server services off but what else is running in the background on the server? thanks This seems to be something a lot of people misunderstand about how Lion Server works so in a nutshell... When you get a 2011 MMS with Lion Server on board.. in fact what you get is Lion only installed. To get the server stuff installed you have to run a separate program called Lion Server and that then activates the server stuff. If you don't run that App then your version of Lion is exactly the same as one found on a iMac for example.. Hope that clarifies things? So.. I never ran the server app and so none of the server stuff is running on my MMS as I have no need for any of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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