robertg Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 To you and Ski both: I suspect that you have had this conversation 100 times already with others and were all too ready to pounce into "lecture mode" on auto-pilot to immediately correct any of these forum noobs that jump in with OMG NEW VERSION EVERYONE MUST UPGRADE NOW. I'll can overlook the fact that you've overlooked many of the points I made in which (dammit) we are in agreement. But I can't overlook your assumption that I post stuff without giving what I'm write any thought. Considering yourself having virtually received "the bird". You jumped on me for telling a guy that it's irrational to remain stuck in the past just because a system might be "stable." (As if achieving stability is so hard and impossible with pre-built apple hardware.) Where have I seen this thread before, on this very site I believe. You then proceeded to lecture me about the fact that it's OK to do that if you're a hobbyist, however professional, serious people would never-ever recklessly upgrade just for fun without any care and testing. WTF ever said that they should? Not me. So yeah, auto-pilot and assumptions on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The car analogy is not applicable. A new car may offer new amenities, but you're still driving on the same roads from point A to B - and as such an old car is still ok. Ah, but... You see, I'm writing a completely different style of music to that I wrote 20 years ago so the analogy works... (Although many people might disagree with my claim.. They think I'm still writing the same crap i wrote back then! ) I don't disagree with the rest of your comments about the benefits or possible benefits of upgrading in the future.. I'm simply saying that those benefits might suit or enhance your style of writing music but may not suit or enhance mine.. or vice versa.. Hard to say until we both know what the future may bring exactly... This is why some composers still write scores in their head and on manuscript rather than transcribing them via a computer.. or why I still drive a 40 year old car instead of a newer more updated one with many extra features.. I just don't care enough for those new features in a newer car compared to what i would lose in terms of the 'feel' of how my older car drives... and how i know it 'inside out' in terms of how it works, how to fix it.. and it handles in a variety of different circumstances and situations.. That 'comfort' for want of a better term... and knowledge, learned over many years now.. is what keeps me from buying a newer car and getting rid of the one that i truly 'love' and enjoy... even though I have tried out many... None of them match up or compare in the end. Maybe one day someone will make a new car that matches or truly improves the feel of my old one. Then I might be tempted to trade her in... but until then.. I'll stick to what i know works for me... and so far, no one has made a better car in my opinion P.S. You should witness the howls of derision in certain other car forums when I put forward my opinions on my car... Discussions and differing opinions here about Logic etc.. are nothing compared to the "all out warfare' that goes on in those places.... *grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (As if achieving stability is so hard and impossible with pre-built apple hardware.) You would think so, wouldn't you... but you only have to read the various threads here to know, that simply isn't the case... There are still many different variables that can cause instability with Logic, be it the myriad of different, possible audio/midi interfaces/drivers/3rd party plugins/other installed software/external hardware combinations.. and so on... Though being completely honest... I swear some of the cases of instability described, are more often caused by a loose screw situated between the chair and the screen, than anything else... but even so, there is an inherent possibility of instability in any computer system that has so many variables in play. I also believe there are fewer variables involved with a Mac system compared to a PC system because of the incredible number of different PC hardware configurations out there.. but even so, the variables in Mac system configurations alone are mind blowing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I guess Dave Grohl has his head stuck in the sand for recording to tape. Maybe Clapton should ditch his Strat for a Parker or, a keytar. f*%@ it, I'm going to use a tape Portastudio to make the next big thing. Oh, while we're on it, lets ditch words and just use emoticons to communicate. Smiles are the future, Words are for fossils. Don't take offense, but Do. Now back to Dexter's low tech ways, The Knife!!! Oooo, so stable! Ouch, that hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I guess Dave Grohl has his head stuck in the sand for recording to tape. Maybe Clapton should ditch his Strat for a Parker or, a keytar. f*%@ it, I'm going to use a tape Portastudio to make the next big thing. Oh, while we're on it, lets ditch words and just use emoticons to communicate. Smiles are the future, Words are for fossils. Don't take offense, but Do. Now back to Dexter's low tech ways, The Knife!!! Oooo, so stable! Ouch, that hurt! Red herring. They do that for tone and color, not because they don't want to use computers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....... auto-pilot and assumptions on your part. School yard, 3PM. Be there. And don't wuss out and call your parents to pick you up early from school because "you're not feeling well". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....... auto-pilot and assumptions on your part. School yard, 3PM. Be there. And don't wuss out and call your parents to pick you up early from school because "you're not feeling well". Bitch I aint skurred https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5Kslv7l75jQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 ... I much prefer a Ferrari GTO 250 over any of the recent ones... and having driven a 250 and F 40 at length... You drove a Ferrari! Wow! How cool is that! 8) How does it feel to be seated in one of those beast? Does it really have the torque people rave about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 http://www.apa.org/topics/anger/control.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Jackson Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....... auto-pilot and assumptions on your part. School yard, 3PM. Be there. And don't wuss out and call your parents to pick you up early from school because "you're not feeling well". Bitch I aint skurred https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5Kslv7l75jQ My bet? Neither will show. They'll both "wuss out". And, they'll just give each other dirty looks in the hallway until they realize that it was all meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I'm telling teacher, cos I'm a suck-up tattle-tail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I'm telling teacher, cos I'm a suck-up tattle-tail Yeah.. but you do it with such style and panache.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I doubt you'll tell since, you're always smoking behind the bleachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 One day at the university, a professor of languages was giving a lecture and he said to the class, "There are many examples in almost every language of a double negative that means a positive but there's no examples anywhere of a double positive that means a negative.", After several moments of silence from the students someone at the back says, "Yeah, right". Not sure how this relates to the thread, but it's a damn good story! Just expressing, in an indirect fashion, my cynicism about the provenance, reliability, usefulness etc of the cited article at the top of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 @ robertg Robert, why do you insist on lecturing people when you don't like being lectured? Why do you continue to use inflammatory terms when you don't like being accused of acting in a fashion akin to trolling? Why do you assume that anyone is "cheating themselves" out of features when they've already got a working system that provides a rich working experience for them? That's a pretty big assumption. All the tech-heads on this forum are likely to keep their ears close to the ground regarding new features AND regarding stability issues, which are not uncommon. So it seems your comment about fossils is completely unfair and mostly based on the fact that you took umbrage at sage advice and was willing to be rather dismissive of it. Your earlier comments about new great features like Flex is interesting. Yes, sometimes new features are so compelling that it will make people upgrade and damn the torpedoes. In my case I went straight from L7 to L9. I refused to use L8 because of all the complaining I read about it. I had a working system that was pretty smooth and needed something like Flex to make me leapfrog upgrade across two whole versions of Logic. But even at that, I waited for a couple of incremental updates to L9 before I installed it, since initial versions of any major upgrade are notoriously prone to bugs. And that's a piece of wisdom I gleaned right here on the forum. From some of the old pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 @ robertg Robert, why do you insist on lecturing people when you don't like being lectured? Why do you continue to use inflammatory terms when you don't like being accused of acting in a fashion akin to trolling? Why do you assume that anyone is "cheating themselves" out of features when they've already got a working system that provides a rich working experience for them? That's a pretty big assumption. All the tech-heads on this forum are likely to keep their ears close to the ground regarding new features AND regarding stability issues, which are not uncommon. So it seems your comment about fossils is completely unfair and mostly based on the fact that you took umbrage at sage advice and was willing to be rather dismissive of it. Your earlier comments about new great features like Flex is interesting. Yes, sometimes new features are so compelling that it will make people upgrade and in my case I went straight from L7 to L9. I refused to use L8 because of all the complaining I read about it. I had a working system that was pretty smooth and needed something like Flex to make me leapfrog upgrade across two whole versions of Logic. But even at that, I waited for a couple of incremental updates to L9 before I installed it, since initial versions of any major upgrade are notoriously prone to bugs. And that's a piece of wisdom I gleaned right here on the forum. From some of the old pros. Oh it's pretty simple really, if people fly off the handle and go on a tangent, I usually follow. I would say that in your case skipping Logic 8 entirely based on hearsay was probably a paranoid move, you do realize of course that the users in the thousands with working setups and without serious problems do not normally post, so the people with "issues" are disproportionally represented. Logic 8 was fine. I'm not mainly talking about people a version or two behind, but those with their "head in the sand" with setups as old as 10-15 years. If that works for you fantastic, but the rest of the world is making music faster and easier with more features. I stand behind everything I say, yes people with setups that old are among the fossils. Not the type who record to tape or use any legitimate tone-shaping methods, such as old consoles with character, that's fine, but the people who just use old computers because they are too afraid to try anything new. Scaredy cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Oh it's pretty simple really, if people fly off the handle and go on a tangent, I usually follow. Ah. You like to feed the flame. And reap what you sow, to mix a couple of metaphors. I would say that in your case skipping Logic 8 entirely based on hearsay was probably a paranoid move, You're doing it again! you do realize of course that the users in the thousands with working setups and without serious problems do not normally post, so the people with "issues" are disproportionally represented. Logic 8 was fine. Not entirely. I was not willing to have my beloved Tab key usurped for other duties or have to deal with all the window focus stealing behaviors, among other reported issues. Until L9 that is, because of the introduction of Flex. So, paranoia had nothing to do with it, workflow had everything to do with it. I'm not mainly talking about people a version or two behind, but those with their "head in the sand" with setups as old as 10-15 years. If that works for you fantastic, but the rest of the world is making music faster and easier with more features. IOW, your comments are not actually referencing most of the people on this forum and particularly this thread? Then why make them here at all? I stand behind everything I say, yes people with setups that old are among the fossils. Not the type who record to tape or use any legitimate tone-shaping methods, such as old consoles with character, that's fine, but the people who just use old computers because they are too afraid to try anything new. Scaredy cats. Yeah, Norman Cook has this issue..... he misses his Atari. And he's such an old fossil, isn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Oh it's pretty simple really, if people fly off the handle and go on a tangent, I usually follow. Ah. You like to feed the flame. And reap what you sow, to mix a couple of metaphors. I would say that in your case skipping Logic 8 entirely based on hearsay was probably a paranoid move, You're doing it again! you do realize of course that the users in the thousands with working setups and without serious problems do not normally post, so the people with "issues" are disproportionally represented. Logic 8 was fine. Not entirely. I was not willing to have my beloved Tab key usurped for other duties or have to deal with all the window focus stealing behaviors, among other reported issues. Until L9 that is, because of the introduction of Flex. So, paranoia had nothing to do with it, workflow had everything to do with it. I'm not mainly talking about people a version or two behind, but those with their "head in the sand" with setups as old as 10-15 years. If that works for you fantastic, but the rest of the world is making music faster and easier with more features. IOW, your comments are not actually referencing most of the people on this forum and particularly this thread? Then why make them here at all? I stand behind everything I say, yes people with setups that old are among the fossils. Not the type who record to tape or use any legitimate tone-shaping methods, such as old consoles with character, that's fine, but the people who just use old computers because they are too afraid to try anything new. Scaredy cats. Yeah, Norman Cook has this issue..... he misses his Atari. And he's such an old fossil, isn't he? I miss my old dos-based mod trackers too, the workflow for making music was very fast back then. But it was also extremely limited. People suck it up and upgrade. And I hate how logic doesn't allow certain key commands unless the window is in the foreground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I doubt you'll tell since, you're always smoking behind the bleachers. Tattle-tail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I doubt you'll tell since, you're always smoking behind the bleachers. Tattle-tail! In Canada, they make the smokers stand an extra 15 feet away from the bleachers. Kind of makes it hard to have a clandestine habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Guess i better get used to it heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Dave, I think it's your bottom track that best represents the trend of clarity vs. stupidity in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I wish this whole nondiscussion was decimated. Apart from a few annoying nonpoints being pointlessly nonmade all of the time by everybody repeatedly, I must say that especially exhausting and ve -he -he -ry annoying is the quoting-back overquotationalities which make for a very unappetizing read. I move for this topic to be burnt at the stake, like an immoral book. Not because it is immoral (it is not), but just because it sucks and adds nothing to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 heheh Ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I must say that especially exhausting and ve -he -he -ry annoying is the quoting-back overquotationalities which make for a very unappetizing read. That's why I like to read the Globe and Mail; it has just the right amount of quotes, and very tasty, I might add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Guess i better get used to it LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I move for this topic to be burnt at the stake, like an immoral book. Not because it is immoral (it is not), but just because it sucks and adds nothing to anything. I would agree if it wasn't for dkgross's contribution.... followed up by Ski's comments.. both of which are gems imho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerPower Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Apple’s Pro Audio application team is virtually gone, according to recent conversations with a couple of ex-Apple employees. Europe is now down to just two pro application specialists... "Pro application specialists" is different from "pro audio application team". The latter includes the coders etc, while product specialists usually are involved in going to music fairs, marketing and usually work as representatives for the company/DAW developer teams, but aren't coders or developers as such. In the earliest days of Logic/Emagic, there were AFAIK three people: two coders (Chris Adam and Gerhard Lengeling) and Sven Kindel/Junge, who was a manager/CEO and probably would server as what we today call 'product specialist'. Through Google, I found that Mr. Junge took two years off after Emagic was sold to Apple, and is now a photographer: http://www.svenjunge.com. The coders work for Apple. And maybe there are only two "product specialists" left in the German pro audio dept. - that wouldn't surprise me, but I can't see how that has any relevance for Logic's/Apple's pro audio development. All we know is that they have been hiring several new people lately, so the actual pro audio team seems to be growing, not shrinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I wasn't going to comment on these types of rumors, as I agree with a lot of you - they do nothing but clog the internets. (That said, I have enjoyed a number of the comments) - But I saw this on another site -http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/11/27/about-the-rumor-that-apple-decimated-its-pro-audio-team/ I think Jim has a pretty darn good track record when it comes to these things - he has some inside scoops and I trust his "nope". cheers kc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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