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Power Button (On/Off) Should Load/Unload Samples


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The Power Button (or On/Off button) is an excellent feature for conserving CPU resources.

 

However, this magical button should also manage RAM in addition to CPU. That is, turning the button "on" should load the samples of any sampler virtual instruments on that track or channel strip, and turning the button "off" should unload those samples. This can be a preference setting so that one can choose whether the button only manages CPU, RAM, or both.

 

This would especially be useful for loading large instrument templates (like orchestral templates with hundreds of instrument sampler tracks). The template would have all tracks set to "off" by default, so that loading the template would be extremely rapid and take minimal RAM. The brilliant composer would then only turn "on" instrument tracks as needed, and only those samples would be loaded.

 

Cheers,

 

Marcus Aurelius

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However, this magical button should also manage RAM in addition to CPU. That is, turning the button "on" should load the samples of any sampler virtual instruments on that track or channel strip, and turning the button "off" should unload those samples. This can be a preference setting so that one can choose whether the button only manages CPU, RAM, or both.

 

I don't see how Logic could tell any third party sample-based instrument to unload its samples.

 

Right now the closest to that is freezing tracks followed by closing and reopening the project.

 

J.

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I don't see how Logic could tell any third party sample-based instrument to unload its samples.

 

Right now the closest to that is freezing tracks followed by closing and reopening the project.

 

J.

 

Thank you for the reply. It should be technically possible. Other DAWs can do this. For example, Digital Performer has a feature called Voice allocation. One can enable or disable the "Voice" of a track, which enables/disables all plugins on that track, both saving CPU and memory, and does indeed load or unload samples of third-party plug-ins, like Kontakt.

 

Freezing is not a solution, unfortunately, as the tracks do not even have any data in them yet in the template situation, so there is nothing to freeze. My orchestral template in Logic grew to 11GB as a blank load. This obviously became unworkable, as load time was too long, and Logic tended to crash or bring the system to its knees with such a project loaded. Meanwhile, DP could load a similar template with no problem, and taking only a few hundred K of RAM...

 

All the best.

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My situation might be amenable to freezing Trax, mostly the fast loads are needed when instrumental Trax are complete. Si I'll try that for my upcoming heavy group of sessions. Thx.

 

Dave

Professional producer, TV writer, songwriter. Veteran of the grandaddy - C-Lab Notator on an Atari, for krissake! Now Logic Pro 10.0.7, in Mac OSX 10.9.3, running on 2.66 GHz Quad-core Intel Xeon processor with 8G memory BUT using LP9 AMAP
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Does Freezing actually free up sample memory anyway?

 

Even if it does, that does not address the full issue: For an orchestral template, one would want instrument tracks with pre-selected instruments available in a template, such that the template loads without any of the respective samples loaded. Then one simply turns on tracks as needed, the plug-ins active, the samples load, just for those tracks. This way one only uses as much memory and CPU as required for the project in its current state.

 

Best regards.

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I don't see how Logic could tell any third party sample-based instrument to unload its samples.

 

It would just unload the plugins on that track and keep the settings stored to reload it when it's turned back on. Obviously it wouldn't be an option for turning off one track of a multi instrument, either all on or all off.

Mike Connelly

6x3.5 Mac Pro, 64G ram, Logic 10.2, OSX 10.10.5

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It would just unload the plugins on that track and keep the settings stored to reload it when it's turned back on. Obviously it wouldn't be an option for turning off one track of a multi instrument, either all on or all off.

 

I do that at times, but this is extremely tedious and unworkable. I am referring to templates with literally hundreds of tracks.

 

DP's Voice feature does this, and will load/unload Kontakt samples per track, so it is technically possible.

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If you have a single Kontakt instance with Trumpet on channel 1 and Horn on channel 2, DP somehow is able to disable channel 1 and have it unload the trumpet samples but keep the horn samples? I can't imagine how they would make that work, seems too good to be true.

 

I was talking about the app turning a channel off unloading the plugin automatically (which would unload the samples), not the user doing it manually and having to keep track of the setting.

Mike Connelly

6x3.5 Mac Pro, 64G ram, Logic 10.2, OSX 10.10.5

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If you have a single Kontakt instance with Trumpet on channel 1 and Horn on channel 2, DP somehow is able to disable channel 1 and have it unload the trumpet samples but keep the horn samples? I can't imagine how they would make that work, seems too good to be true.

 

I was talking about the app turning a channel off unloading the plugin automatically (which would unload the samples), not the user doing it manually and having to keep track of the setting.

 

I'm not sure DP can do a multi on/off like that; I doubt it. I assume it can only be the entire Kontakt instance. Still, that would be quite an improvement over Logic's inability to deal with this at all.

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I think we're agreeing with each other. Logic should be able to disable a plugin/instrument in a way that unloads the samples, there's no technical reason keeping them from doing it if they wanted to.

 

Yes, precisely, we are in agreement indeed.

I've put in the feature request to Apple, so please do the same if you have time...

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Interesting idea, but I wouldn't want a feature in Logic to ever unload samples, especially the power button. That has its purpose and it does a fine job. That aside, considering that some libraries take a very long time to load up, I'm not sure how much of a time-saving a feature like that would offer. One way or another, you have to pay the piper, so to speak.

 

Besides, there are much easier and more immediate solutions to having samples remain persistent and available at a moment's notice (especially important when working under very tight deadlines): Vienna Ensemble Pro and a crapload of RAM. If you're working with a large orchestral template and finding that you need to conserve RAM, go out and buy more RAM! And even for an 11G template (which isn't really all that huge), VEP is your friend because once samples are loaded up, they remain persistent ("preserved") in RAM. Thus, Logic doesn't have to reload any samples when switching between alternate versions of cues or even entirely different ones, and switching between Logic projects then becomes VERY quick.

 

Füd for thought! :mrgreen:

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Hello -

 

Thank you for the reply. Of course, this may not be useful for everyone; I am suggesting it be a preference for the operation of the power button. Or it could be an additional button, like DP's "voice" feature.

 

It would be a huge time-saving in my case, as I usually only use a fraction of the instruments in the template, but I want them all available from the start of the project, mapped out in the template, until I decide on the arrangement. I can hide (and delete, if desired) unused tracks later on.

 

The request is to have everything doable within the DAW, without need for another piece of software like Vienna Ensemble. Also, the VE approach only works if one does not with to modify those instruments on a per-project basis. I generally do modify the instruments as I go along for a given project, so the instruments really should be saved within the Logic project.

 

As for RAM, I do have 18GB, and can expand further, but that won't really resolve the issue. It's the time it takes to load, and that Logic starts to have audio glitches and drop-outs with such a huge project loaded, and is liable to crash, which entails another re-load of the entire project.

 

Best regards.

 

Interesting idea, but I wouldn't want a feature in Logic to ever unload samples, especially the power button. That has its purpose and it does a fine job. That aside, considering that some libraries take a very long time to load up, I'm not sure how much of a time-saving a feature like that would offer. One way or another, you have to pay the piper, so to speak.

 

Besides, there are much easier and more immediate solutions to having samples remain persistent and available at a moment's notice (especially important when working under very tight deadlines): Vienna Ensemble Pro and a crapload of RAM. If you're working with a large orchestral template and finding that you need to conserve RAM, go out and buy more RAM! And even for an 11G template (which isn't really all that huge), VEP is your friend because once samples are loaded up, they remain persistent ("preserved") in RAM. Thus, Logic doesn't have to reload any samples when switching between alternate versions of cues or even entirely different ones, and switching between Logic projects then becomes VERY quick.

 

Füd for thought! :mrgreen:

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Hey, a preference would be great. I'm all for preferences, and IMO Logic doesn't offer nearly enough of them.

 

Not to detract from your feature request, but after reading about your issues, they're just more reason to consider VEP. With VEP hosting your plugins you take a helluva lot of strain off of Logic. CPU resources allocated to the VEP playback engine significantly reduce Logic's proneness (is that a word?) to audio glitches and crashes. For instance, Logic glitches terribly when I run even a single instance of Kontakt/Cinematic Strings 2 violins. However, when hosted in VEP, the glitching all but goes by the wayside.

 

As far as having everything do-able within the DAW, sure, ideally it would be great. But considering how long it takes Logic to load up samples for large templates, it becomes impractical to try and compare two versions of a cue unless you have 10 - 15 minutes to spare as Logic re-loads samples for each one. VEP alleviates all of that waiting time.

 

Re modifying sounds, sure, you can do that even when your plugins are hosted in VEP. I don't run into problems or limitations automating all manner of parameters to make my sampled instruments sing as much like the real thing as possible. Anyway, I'm just mentioning this to say that the control you want to exercise over your plugins won't necessarily be diminished when hosting plugs in VEP.

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Wasn't there a similar option in Logic 7, and before, where you could switch off objects in the Environment... or was it in the track parameters?

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Also, if (or rather, "when", to be optimistic for a moment) this feature is implemented, this should also be integrated into the Bounce In Place command. The BIP dialogue can include a check-box on whether to unload samples from plug-ins of the track being bounced.

(Else this could simply follow the general preference as we discussed here).

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  • 2 years later...

It's an old post but +1.

 

In Cubase there is 'Disable Track' which completely removes a track and its plugins from using system resources, once enabled it loads the samples and settings associated with it.

 

It's incredibly useful and allows me to create large templates without the need for VEP. It would be fantastic if Logic implemented this.

www.jonathanwrightmusic.com
Logic Pro X 10.7.2 - macOS Monterey - M1 Max - 64GB RAM

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It's an old post but +1.

 

In Cubase there is 'Disable Track' which completely removes a track and its plugins from using system resources, once enabled it loads the samples and settings associated with it.

 

It's incredibly useful and allows me to create large templates without the need for VEP. It would be fantastic if Logic implemented this.

 

Exactly. The problems mainly arise in the situation of large templates. For example, I have a large template for orchestra, with hundreds of instruments and articulations on various tracks and through various Aux routings, for example, which takes up 10GB of RAM when loaded. It takes forever to open, and destabilizes the system. If it only loaded "pointers" to all the instruments, so to speak, rather than loading all the samples, then only loading them when a given track or channel strip is made "active", this would be immensely helpful. The template would then open quickly, essentially empty of any samples, and would only grow in size as needed.

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  • 3 weeks later...

+1

 

A "disable plugin" option, like in Pro Tools would be best. So one has the possibility to bypass or disable the plugin (rather than doing this on a per-track basis). This can apply to both instrument or Fx plugins.

 

There is already a graphical representation of this in Logic: a plugin is not available when opening an existing project. The plugin slot is crossed out. When loading the project when the plugin is available again the settings are retained.

http://www.dominikscherrer.com

 

Logic Pro X 10.4.6, Mac OSX 10.14.6, 2x Mac Pro 2013 8-Core, 64GB RAM, RME UFX II, RME UFX, RME Babyface Pro

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  • 5 months later...

+1

 

The power button plus a dedicated key command set should disable (unload samples from VIs like kontakt and free CPU)

 

- disable selected tracks

- enable selected tracks

- disable/enable selected tracks (toggle)

 

Another advantage should be to free available voices as 255 is the limit for audio/instrument tracks. Therefor the user could have more than 255 audio tracks in a project. Voices should dynamically allocate themselves as well even if tracks are not disabled/deactivated.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Indeed. Digital Performer has had such voice allocation and sample load/unload functionality for years.

Those of use who work with large Logic projects and templates could really benefit from such a system.

 

Exactly. Pro Tools HD Worms the Same way including Dynamic Voice allocation and a real deactivate track feature.

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  • 9 months later...
Another vote for a RAM-unloading option for tracks when they are powered down, and for the same reason: that would allow me to make a truly useful orchestral template that doesn't require me to start loading it the night before I want to work with it.

Exactly. This is especially important with large orchestral score and soundtrack work like this, where there can be hundreds of tracks of virtual instruments in the template.

The load time is especially painful if the project crashes mid-session, which is all the more likely considering the over-stretched memory capacity of the computer. Being able to load the template without any samples loaded is the key; then selectively turning on the "power" for the tracks you want to use, which will load the samples. Once a track is bounced as audio, the instrument track's power can be turned off again which will unload the samples.

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Please Apple need to implement this feature! DP does it wonderfully. You can have all the sample libraries you own in one project and have them ready to be loaded up in a moments notice.

Those who want this or other Logic features, please make sure to send this feature request to Apple....I do believe they take such requests seriously once many people request:

Apple Logic Feedback

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  • 2 weeks later...
Another vote for a RAM-unloading option for tracks when they are powered down, and for the same reason: that would allow me to make a truly useful orchestral template that doesn't require me to start loading it the night before I want to work with it.

Exactly. This is especially important with large orchestral score and soundtrack work like this, where there can be hundreds of tracks of virtual instruments in the template.

The load time is especially painful if the project crashes mid-session, which is all the more likely considering the over-stretched memory capacity of the computer. Being able to load the template without any samples loaded is the key; then selectively turning on the "power" for the tracks you want to use, which will load the samples. Once a track is bounced as audio, the instrument track's power can be turned off again which will unload the samples.

The issue you might run into with the "deactivate" feature is once your huge template has more and more instruments enabled you will be confronted with the issue that the bigger the project becomes the longer the loading times will be so for "huge" orchestral projects it might be valid to outsource the most common sample libraries to hosts like Vienna Ensemble Pro. 

But I totally agree in smaller sessions it would totally make sense to startup your template and activate the tracks you need and be done with it.

But I also think that the bigger a project or template will be the more we are confronted with other UX issues like the typical Track Creep syndrome ;-)

Meaning a better way to instantly showing and hiding track groups and live searching tracks and or regions or showing only tracks at play cursor etc go hand in hand with your request in some ways. 

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The issue you might run into with the "deactivate" feature is once your huge template has more and more instruments enabled you will be confronted with the issue that the bigger the project becomes the longer the loading times will be so for "huge" orchestral projects it might be valid to outsource the most common sample libraries to hosts like Vienna Ensemble Pro. 

That may be an option in some scenarios.  However, 2 issues against that in my case:

1. Even though I start with the template loaded with instruments, I typically edit and customize at least some of these during the course of the project, so a shared instrument library like VE Pro would not suffice.

2. I would rather avoid adding another layer of complexity (and possible instability, bugs, crashes) through integrating something like VE Pro with Logic. 

Anyway, if just the bare instruments are loaded without any samples the template should load quite quickly. As is it can easily take 10 minutes or more to load.

If it is still time-consuming to load all the empty plugins, perhaps behind the scenes Logic could actually do one better: Logic would show the plugin (perhaps greyed out) in the un-powered track, but not actually load the plugin into memory at all until the Power button is turned on.  This means that opening the template containing powered-off tracks would actually just load the graphics indicating the presence of the plugins, but not the plugin instances themselves.

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