Logic Pro 9.1.6 released

What you're saying carries with it the implication that people who work in the music business are rats! So please, let's leave honesty out of the discussion and move on...

 

Absolutely hilarious!

I'm not saying that people are using a platform in light of future upgrades, I'm directly saying that if the company was going down, people tend to make it mean 'trouble' and so they leave. Call it Flock Theory.

 

I LOVE that someone is still using a G4 and OS 9.2 - I have another friend doing the same. Those were truly great days in audio. The crossover to OSX created so much mess for years (at least for me it did, since I was using digital performer at the time)

 

Anyway, thanks for all the thoughts - I appreciate the conversation!

Um, maybe I've missed something, but wouldn't they just give you a .dmg with an installer package script on it?

 

I'm not sure about your experience with whatever Apple geniuses, but I have never seen anyone compiling an installer package with a .dmg.

Especially now that Apple isn't providing them anymore themselves, I'd expect this very thing to be absolutely unlikely to happen.

 

- Sascha

What you're saying carries with it the implication that people who work in the music business are rats! So please, let's leave honesty out of the discussion and move on...

 

Absolutely hilarious!

I'm not saying that people are using a platform in light of future upgrades, I'm directly saying that if the company was going down, people tend to make it mean 'trouble' and so they leave. Call it Flock Theory.

 

I LOVE that someone is still using a G4 and OS 9.2 - I have another friend doing the same. Those were truly great days in audio. The crossover to OSX created so much mess for years (at least for me it did, since I was using digital performer at the time)

 

Anyway, thanks for all the thoughts - I appreciate the conversation!

 

 

I agree, people will jump ship eventually, out of necessity, but I think the pace will be more like that of a sloth. Oh, there we go again with the musician references... Maybe more like a bear waking up from hibernation. A bit grumpy, but on the prowl for some fresh meat.

 

Regards,

 

Ski

 

P.S. your signature made me LOL

Do you think your Apple geniuses will know about all these locations?

 

I don't know whether you are deliberately being argumentative, but of course they don't need to know about those locations, they just download the installers/updates, which get run/installed as usual and put the content in the correct locations as specified in the installers...

I don't know whether you are deliberately being argumentative,

 

No, I'm not. Seriously.

 

but of course they don't need to know about those locations, they just download the installers/updates, which get run/installed as usual and put the content in the correct locations as specified in the installers...

 

How can they do that in case there's no real installers anymore?

When you download anything from the App Store, it just gets installed. And when you download the actual Logic version, there's no options about where to install whatever content (unlike with the last DVD installers).

Do the Apple geniuses have some special tools telling you where required/additional content gets installed?

And yes, that's a serious question.

Because in case they don't, they won't be of much help.

 

Anyway, so far it still seems as if you'd absolutely need an internet connection for whatever initial install and for updates. I can only guess, but I'd think that many professional studios will surely be amazed...

 

- Sascha

Do you think your Apple geniuses will know about all these locations?

 

I don't know whether you are deliberately being argumentative, but of course they don't need to know about those locations, they just download the installers/updates, which get run/installed as usual and put the content in the correct locations as specified in the installers...

 

..which is exactly what one of the Apple Store personnel did for a client of mine in Atlanta this morning. He took his iMac into the store, explained he has dial up internet and they immediately helped him upgrade to 9.1.6 on his iMac without issue... or question.

 

They even updated his version of Lion from 10.7.1 to 10.7.2 at the same time.. along with whatever other updates were queued up under Software Updates including the newer version of Safari...

 

No worries.. no issues.. no complicated requirements... He was in and out with everything done and checked, in less than 90 minutes.

How can they do that in case there's no real installers anymore?

When you download anything from the App Store, it just gets installed. And when you download the actual Logic version, there's no options about where to install whatever content (unlike with the last DVD installers).

Do the Apple geniuses have some special tools telling you where required/additional content gets installed?

And yes, that's a serious question.

Because in case they don't, they won't be of much help.

 

You *really* think the AppStore downloads thousands of uncompressed individual files? What seems to happen is that the AppStore downloads an installer file in the background, and runs it, which extracts the archived (for size and compactness) files to their correct locations, including the application (which is in itself a folder full of hundreds or thousands of files.

 

The fact that you don't see that doesn't mean it's not what's happening - I don't think there's anything particularly strange about that.

Edited December 12, 2011 by beej

..which is exactly what one of the Apple Store personnel did for a client of mine in Atlanta this morning. He took his iMac into the store, explained he has dial up internet and they immediately helped him upgrade to 9.1.6 on his iMac without issue... or question.

 

They even updated his version of Lion from 10.7.1 to 10.7.2 at the same time.. along with whatever other updates were queued up under Software Updates including the newer version of Safari...

 

No worries.. no issues.. no complicated requirements... He was in and out with everything done and checked, in less than 90 minutes.

 

Yep, it's exactly what I mean. Apple seem pretty good with this. I'm sure they have ways to deal with these kinds of issues. Probably no ways that will satisfy Sascha completely, because, well, it's Apple, but...

I don't know whether you are deliberately being argumentative,

No, I'm not. Seriously.

- Sascha

 

There are frankly two possibilities...

 

1) You are being deliberately argumentative and therefore 'trolling' to put it bluntly..

 

or..

 

2) You are either not a Logic User or you have no clue as to how Logic and it's installers work..

 

It's one or the other... and at the moment I have no idea which...

 

But, either way.. it is plainly obvious you are talking out rubbish and therefore it seems pointless trying to discuss this further with you.

 

My apologies to everyone else for my own bluntness.... but I felt this had to be said... given the way this thread was progressing.

Edited December 12, 2011 by n6smith

Sascha's a long time Logic user from back in the day, and he does know what he's talking about.

 

But yes, he's getting grumpier as the Logic version numbers get higher. I think he'd prefer to still be on 4.8.1 on the PC, and not have to deal with all this new fangled internet and mobile apps elven magic...

Sascha's a long time Logic user from back in the day, and he does know what he's talking about.

 

But yes, he's getting grumpier as the Logic version numbers get higher. I think he'd prefer to still be on 4.8.1 on the PC, and not have to deal with all this new fangled internet and mobile apps elven magic...

 

LOL... Well I was happiest back in the day of my good old Atari and Creator (and later Notator..) so I kinda of understand that.... but if he really knows what he is talking about then I have to think he is simply trolling.... based on his comments about file structures etc...

Please see my post on page 10 about Sascha Frank. To recap, don't reply to him/her. He's bashing Logic everytime he/she has a chance on GearSlutz fora. Waste of time, and he now has invaded LPH... Think he/she's an old Logic user now on Cubase, and Cubase is so much better than Logic bla bla bla kind of stuff.

 

Blink

For now however, if you are truly working on the Pro level in audio post, you do need PT to be compatible...they really do have the lock on that in every big film and mixing studio.

 

I'm having a hard time seeing the merit of this passage. Anyone else know where I'm going with this?

First of: I *do* have an idea of what's happening during whatever initial/update download and installing process.

Second: I *do* know Logic more or less inside out.

Third: Yes, I am getting grumpier from version to version, simply because longstanding issues aren't fixed, adressed or modernized at all while certain highly useful features are either getting messed up or even removed entirely.

 

But all that does have absolutely nothing to do with me complaining about Apples "you need to be on the net to install our software" strategy. Which is just stupid on all accounts when it comes to desktop computers that are supposed to be used in certain professional setups.

Sure, it's oh so nice that the folks at the Apple store will update your computer for free when you take it to the store. And well, yes, it really is. But do I want to take my computer, which may even spend its live in a machine room, cables attached and what not, to an Apple store each time an update is released? You gotta be kidding!

In case there's an update released, I want to download it onto whatever machine I might be using for my office/net duties, put it onto a stick or whatever external drive, plug that into my studio machine, run the update and be done.

I do *not* want to take my computer to an Apple store and I do as well *not* want to buy a second Mac just to download updates, then go through whatever hoops it takes to get that update onto the target machine.

 

I completely fail to see what's so hard to understand about all these points.

It's common use with software for years already and it's also working pretty well. As long as it's not a version jump, possibly requiring a new authorisation, I can download each and every update from each and every company in each and every net café, put it onto my stick and be good to go. I did that several times when I was on the road, on vacation or whatever - and guess what? It worked perfectly! But from now on it won't work with Logic anymore.

If these are the "new and modern times" Apple seems to be promoting, then I really don't know what to say. Simply because it's not new and modern, it's restricting, proprietary and dictating. As easy as that.

 

If you other folks like it, I can't do anything about it (and I wouldn't even want to). But you should as well accept that there's strong reasons to *not* like it.

 

- Sascha

I don't think I've seen anyone comment about this.. but has anyone else noticed the improvement with 9.1.6 and full screen mode?

Hey Nigel,

I've updated my mobile to 9.1.6 and have left my studio rig at 9.1.5. I'm working through the nuances of 9.1.6 so I don't have a comment for you yet but so far I do like the full screen. I think It will be really nice on my dual screens in the studio. BTW thanks for the heads up on making a 9.1.5 copy before the update.

Edited December 13, 2011 by jetspeed

longstanding issues aren't fixed, adressed or modernized at all while certain highly useful features are either getting messed up or even removed entirely.

- Sascha

 

Care to lay out some of the more prominent issues for us who don't know Logic inside and out?

Hey Ken...

 

Well, I'm noticing that when I swipe to desktop now.. and return to Logic.. it's not messed up like it was in 9.1.5 though it could have been fixed in Lion 10.7.2 and I just never noticed it...

 

Also.. Time stretch appears to have been fixed in full screen mode.... maybe others can confirm this?

That's weird, I never noticed that Logic got messed up when I swiped back to it.

 

What was happening?

Well.. in Lion 10.7 at least... and 9.1.5.. when I used mission control (Three finger swipe up) and then came back again to Logic.. all i got was a grey screen... then if i went back to desktop Logic would remain on the screen behind the menu bar and the dock... Now Logic is restored back as normal.. I am beginning to think this was fixed in Lion 10.7.2 rather than Logic 9.1.6 because of various comments I have been reading... and I just never tried it out before today...

Gotcha. I haven't made the move to Lion yet but I'm thinking about it. Any suggestions? Comments?

Gotcha. I haven't made the move to Lion yet but I'm thinking about it. Any suggestions? Comments?

 

All I can say is.. for me, with my setup.. it works fine. My audio/midi device is fully Lion compatible and I've not had any issues with plugins that wasn't fixed by obtaining a update for them.. so for me.. it's all good.

 

If you want to try it.. first make a clone of your system drive using Carbon Copy Cloner or a similar app.. store that on a backup drive somewhere and then do the upgrade.. If it doesn't work out for you, for some odd reason.. then you can simply go back to your previous OS by restoring from the clone.

Care to lay out some of the more prominent issues for us who don't know Logic inside and out?

 

I actually wouldn't happen to know where to start.

 

You still can't use MIDI out plugins, And instead of being improved, so things such as that could be realized, the entire environment is an 80-ish looking piece of joke - just try to cable an arpeggiator (good luck with that already...) and listen to its options. Oh, no sound? Right, Logic needs to play for the arpeggiator to work. Now have a look at your calendar, just to make sure we *really* live in 2011.

 

The same goes for the audio editor. Selection is tough, you permanently need to grab a modifier key should you want to change the borders of the selection, no offline processing of plugins, no nothing.

 

Did you ever try to use time stretching in the arrange? I better hope you never needed to. Because in that case you'd know that the algorithms Logic comes with sound like s#!+. To put it mildly. No wonder, they're 1.5 decades old. There is *no* other sequencer on the market coming with such shitty time stretching algorithms, even cheap ones such as Energy XT give you way better results (oops, I almost forgot, Logic is cheap now as well...).

And let's rather not even talk about pitch shifting. It's abysmal.

 

Do you occasionally use scoring? Then you must've had some heart attacks already, should you've tried in Logic. And while we are at features that they simply took away for no apparent reason and never fixed: The ever so popular "Jazz Font" has been working in all versions until 5.5. (ok, maybe 6.x as well, I skipped that). Then it just stopped to work. And never got back to work.

 

Other features they've taken away are freely resizeable windows, float windows, space saving things such as being able to blend out title bars and such. All really nice things in case screen estate is limited (such as on a laptop). All taken away for no reason at all.

 

Have you ever looked at the socalled manual? Ever since version 8 It's a disgrace to human intelligence, nothing less. It simply doesn't work. Not only that it's a "super floating" window (that will not even conquer all Logic windows but ALL opened program windows!), you can't do proper searches in it, either, not even remotely.

 

These examples are not representative, not necessarily the most annoying ones either, just examples that come to my mind instantly. And as said, I could go on forever. But you don't want that. And I don't want that, either.

 

And then there's a lack of "modern" features. Look at Studio One and it's Melodyne integration. Cubase has its own melodyne-ish editor. All of them feature way better time stretching and pitching. PT has seamless Sibelius integration. Etc etc etc.

 

- Sascha

Hey Sascha,

All very valid points that I haven't come in contact with yet. I have not had problems with time stretching but then again I have used it on a very limited basis.

 

As someone who has the experience and knowledge that you have is it possible to send suggestions to the Logic people? Perhaps you already have. Has it, or do you think it will do any good?

 

I agree with you on the look of the interface. In my opinion it could use a lively, up to date upgrade, however, that being my own opinion, I can understand a lot of users wanting to keep things very familiar. Do you think this is why Logic kind of stays the same?

 

Do you have any experience with PT? Why is there no standard out there? I hate the whole TDM and Native issue. Why cant we all just get along

Pleeeease people, don't reply to Sascha. It will be a Logic-bashing party to no end if you do. Better put your energy and respect by replying to people like n6smith or David who come to the forum to actually help people out(is this forum called Logic Pro Help for nothing or what?). Don't feed the troll, like they say.

 

Blink

Pleeeease people, don't reply to Sascha. It will be a Logic-bashing party to no end if you do. Better put your energy and respect by replying to people like n6smith or David who come to the forum to actually help people out(is this forum called Logic Pro Help for nothing or what?). Don't feed the troll, like they say.

 

Blink

 

I don't know Sascha but I take your words with a great deal of consideration as I'm starting to see what you are talking about. I for one don't come here looking for the problems just the answers so thank you for your wisdom.

Some comments, though we've done this dance before...

 

You still can't use MIDI out plugins,

 

Yep, which would be useful for the 4% of available plugins that use the feature.

 

And instead of being improved, so things such as that could be realized, the entire environment is an 80-ish looking piece of joke - just try to cable an arpeggiator (good luck with that already...) and listen to its options. Oh, no sound? Right, Logic needs to play for the arpeggiator to work. Now have a look at your calendar, just to make sure we *really* live in 2011.

 

Agreed - It's time for an environment overhaul for sure. However, I'm kinda scared if they do because I don't want Apple to phase out or massively dumb down the environment completely...

 

ADid you ever try to use time stretching in the arrange? I better hope you never needed to. Because in that case you'd know that the algorithms Logic comes with sound like s#!+. To put it mildly. No wonder, they're 1.5 decades old. There is *no* other sequencer on the market coming with such shitty time stretching algorithms, even cheap ones such as Energy XT give you way better results (oops, I almost forgot, Logic is cheap now as well...).

 

Actually no, Logic had new time stretching algorithms with, iirc, LP7 which were better than the old legacy algorithms - those ones are pretty bad by modern standards . And now that we have Flex Time, which is a completely new way of timestretching, you can do it that way which can give even better results depending on the situation. But yes, the two or three third-party high-end time stretching algorithms on the market do sound better for pure timestretching - I'm using iZotope Radius, it plugs right into Logic invisibly and I don't even have to think about it.

 

And let's rather not even talk about pitch shifting. It's abysmal.

 

Agreed.

 

Have you ever looked at the socalled manual? Ever since version 8 It's a disgrace to human intelligence, nothing less. It simply doesn't work. Not only that it's a "super floating" window (that will not even conquer all Logic windows but ALL opened program windows!), you can't do proper searches in it, either, not even remotely.

 

Ever downloaded the so-called PDF's? They are searchable just fine. All the cool kids are doing it.

 

Apple's help viewer is an awful piece of software, imo.

 

And then there's a lack of "modern" features. Look at Studio One and it's Melodyne integration. Cubase has its own melodyne-ish editor. All of them feature way better time stretching and pitching. PT has seamless Sibelius integration. Etc etc etc.

 

Sure - but you can also play that game backwards with other features. PT and Cubase etc are quite backward in other areas that Logic is strong in. No one tool is brilliant in every possible way for every possible feature. Logic has it's weak spots, but so does everything else. The trick is to use the tool where the weak spots don't really affect your workflow, and the strengths do, I think...

I don't know Sascha

 

Perhaps the only problem being that Blink doesn't know me, either.

 

- SF

Hi

 

for those concerned about the new content download system, making backups and the like, there is a way to make copies of the installer packages:

 

 

Firstly, the applications themselves are automatically installed in the Applications Folder. These can be copied to new installations fine. If I have it right, Logic is the oddball with this new method. FCPX and Motion 5 place all the require files within the application packages, whilst Logic and Mainstage require files to be placed in the Library folder.

 

 

Second, the 'Additional Content':

 

The downloads are automatically stored in a hidden folder until completed, and then the installers automatically run, placing the files in the appropriate Library folders. Once the installation is complete, the downloaded files are automatically deleted.

 

Provided that your OS requires an Admin password to run the installers, it is possible to interrupt the installer process so that you can copy/backup the downloaded package files.

 

Here's how (these instructions work for OSX.7.2):

 

Start the download process from LP9.1.6 or MS 2.2

 

Using the Finder Go to Folder menu, enter "/private/var/folders/" (without the quotes)

 

A poke around in the various folders that are inside here will reveal folder called "com.apple.MusicApps" and inside there, a folder called "audiocontentdownload.apple.com".

Finally, inside here is a folder called "lp9_ms2_content_2011

 

The downloaded packages are temporarily stored here.

 

Once downloading is complete, Logic or Mainstage will prompt for an Admin password before completing the install process.

 

Before entering the password, copy the installer packages to another location. The installation can then be carried out (and the original packages automatically deleted by the installer process).

 

HTH

 

CCT

Agreed - It's time for an environment overhaul for sure. However, I'm kinda scared if they do because I don't want Apple to phase out or massively dumb down the environment completely...

 

+1 Saying that though, if you compare it to something like Reaktors structure panels it's not that different IMO