n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thanks Ski, you've been an awesome moderator and the site will miss you a great deal. I hope you will still be a frequent poster. Cheers +10000000...... Still waiting for the news as to why... (Unless it was already posted and I missed it... not that I need to know exactly why.. just curious..) and if ski intends to remain here under a new/lesser role... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thanks for the kind words jetspeed and n6! I'll save my answer to your question, nigel, for when David makes an official announcement. Meanwhile, an explanation of what happened above... Apparently it's against the terms of the license agreement to distribute copies of the 9.1.5 update (I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if this is 100% accurate). Still, not wanting to compromise David or LPH, I removed the information I previously posted on how to obtain that update. I think it's despicable that a company puts people in the position of "update or die", and I'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenK Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Gee Fellas- It was certainly not my intent to put anyone or the site itself in an awkward position. I know you can see I was just trying to get what was legitimately mine only 2 days ago. I'm one of those few who happily remains behind the curve. I wasn't paying attention, but I still wouldn't expect Apple to make minor updates and bug fixes unavailable. Apologies to All Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozinga Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I guess this hints that LPX is not coming very soon. Otherwise they wouldnt go to the trouble of porting LP9 to App Store. It would make sense if they released it between the usual July-October time frame. But then again waveburner has dissapeared. So it also hints to one of the rumors that it will be integrated to LPX. So who knows maybe we will see it around musicmesse but either way I was so ready for LPX this month . LOL Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinkofani Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Not really. Apple move to put LP9 on the App store could simply be that they were about to be out LS2 boxes. If LP X is not very near, putting LP9 on the App store saves them a new batch of boxes to manufacture. Anyway, it's clear that it's the new delivery method of Apple, no good or bad time to put LP9 on the App store, IMHO. I started a thread a week or so ago stating that i found it strange that all versions(updates, upgrades. full versions) of LS2 were back order on the Apple store, the virtual one that is, not the retail stores. At the time i thought it was because of LPX, but i think we have an explanation now as to why it was the case. Blink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetLab Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hate to ask this but where do you find Logic Pro in the App Store? Do I have to go through iTunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Ken, Via the App Store app itself (Not iTunes)... If you go to the 'featured' tab you should see it pretty easily... under 'New & Noteworthy' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Actually, the fact that L9 is only available via on the App Store now.. might well decrease the time between this and the next major update to LX (or whatever they choose to call it) because there is no lead time needed to print boxes, burn DVDs, ship out to stores etc... I'm also going to guess that due to the recent price drop.. there will be no 'upgrade' price for L9 to LX... Just a flat rate of $199 (if they stick to the current pricing) to buy or update... which is a good deal for all concerned compared to the cost of the last major update between L8 and L9... Edited December 11, 2011 by n6smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetLab Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thanks Nigel, I very new to apps so forgive my asking but it seems that when I'm in the app store I only see apps for iPhone and iPad. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hi Ken.. You are looking online or via the app store in iTunes.. which is the wrong place. The App Store for Macs is an Application itself.. You should find it in your Applications folder if not on your dock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetLab Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Holly Crap! I didn't know that existed. Talk about narrow focus Thanks Nigel..........to the rescue again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I'm also going to guess that due to the recent price drop.. there will be no 'upgrade' price for L9 to LX... Just a flat rate of $199 (if they stick to the current pricing) to buy or update... which is a good deal for all concerned compared to the cost of the last major update between L8 and L9... Yes, that is how it will work, and is how it's worked for, eg, the iLife apps for quite a while. Whether you have iWork 09 or not, if you want iWork 11, you buy it. No more upgrade complexities, you just buy the app you want, and the pricing is basically similar to what the old upgrade pricing used to be, so no one should feel hard done by - and it makes the point of entry cheaper and easier to get more people onto the platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Holly Crap! Ah yes.. It's Christmassy Expletive Time!! Thanks Nigel..........to the rescue again As always Ken.. you are more than welcome... One tip: Make a copy of your current Logic Pro App (if you haven't already) before you upgrade in case of any issues so you can roll back later if needed.. You should be fine though... Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 no one should feel hard done by What? That's ...completely unfair!! j/k Seriously though no software pricing model is perfect and therefore people will always feel hard done by. I love that new pricing structure, but picture this: someone new to Logic buys Logic 9 for $199 today. Tomorrow, Apple pulls Logic 9 from the app store and replaces it with a brand new $199 Logic X. That person will feel hard done by. But like I said I like the new pricing structure, I feel like it has the merit of being clear and simple. I never quite understood software companies who give a break to people who bought the prior version within, say, the past 60 days. It only shifts the problem in my opinion: what about the guy who bought the prior version 61 days ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerPower Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I love that new pricing structure, but picture this: someone new to Logic buys Logic 9 for $199 today. Tomorrow, Apple pulls Logic 9 from the app store and replaces it with a brand new $199 Logic X. That person will feel hard done by. There are various ways to give rebates on upgrades to people who just bought a software package. Maybe Logic still actually costs $499, but that the current price only is a new way to give people (those who buy the software some months before a new major release) a rebate. This would mean that instead of getting a rebate on a new purchase, Apple instead reduces the price of the current version the last, say, 6 months before Logic X, Logic 10, Intuition 1 or whatever it will be called is out. This way, current new buyers will still pay more than if they bought the next release when it's out - but they will also have a DAW to use before the next major version is out. If they can do some work or have some fun with it, that fun/work may be worth the extra $199. At any rate – $199 is absurdly inexpensive for all Logic can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 someone new to Logic buys Logic 9 for $199 today. Tomorrow, Apple pulls Logic 9 from the app store and replaces it with a brand new $199 Logic X. That person will feel hard done by. Yep, life would be so much 'fairer' if people could exploit foreknowledge of the future. Alas, that is not the life we live, and whoever thinks life in general is "fair" anyway needs to take a reality check. How much have I, and people like me spent on Logic over the years? *Thousands*. Do I feel that money was wasted, just because Logic now costs comparably pennies - no. I bought the product at the price it costs over the years, and I got my utility out of it. What about those Fairlight and Synclavier owners today, eh? If I bought a product today and the price was dropped tomorrow, would I feel narked? Probably a bit, but that was how it was, and I obviously thought it was a fair price to pay yesterday, so suck it up and move on. (I was there when Logic was killed on Atari, I moved to PC, and Logic was killed for PC, I moved to Mac PPC and Logic was killed on PPC so I moved to Mac Intel... so I'm not inexperienced in Logic-related annoyances... In my experience, many of the people who cry "it's not fair!" on internet forums generally mean "I didn't benefit out of this in the way that I would have liked too" and I can't give them too much credibility. *Anyway* all that wasn't really my intent, which was really that no one should be too narked at Apple's new "no upgrade pricing policy" because in reality it doesn't change much, except lowering the price of entry to bring new people onto the platform. Meanwhile, I will still be paying my £140 for the next new major version of Logic, and enjoying small bugfix and feature improvement updates as ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I love the idea of software being "download only" from both an economical and ecological POV. But the way Apple does it is quite stupid in my book. - Sascha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Yep, life would be so much 'fairer' if people could exploit foreknowledge of the future. Hey Beej, I hope you realized that I was not talking about fairness but about the perception of fairness. FWIW I don't think there's a way to price intellectual property (software, books, music, a training workshop etc...) in a way that can be perceived as fair by everyone. I mean, I wrote this poem and it's really, really, really good. How much should I get paid for it? How much do I sell it for? On the other hand of the spectrum I sometimes work with businesses that wouldn't even blink if Logic Pro's price was $10,000. That's because to them, that amount would be negligible compared to the money it will bring them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hi everyone, Does any know how to update to 9.1.6 without having to hook the mac to the internet? I downloaded the 9.1.6 update file from the support page, put it onto a USB stick and installed it on my standalone MacPro. But when I start Logic, it comes up with a prompt saying it can't get onto the internet (looks like its trying to check if I want to download additional content). Works great on my macbook pro though.. happy days! Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Does any know how to update to 9.1.6 without having to hook the mac to the internet? I downloaded the 9.1.6 update file from the support page, put it onto a USB stick and installed it on my standalone MacPro. But when I start Logic, it comes up with a prompt saying it can't get onto the internet (looks like its trying to check if I want to download additional content). This is *exactly* why the new download scheme is utterly stupid. You *need* to have your target machine connected to the web. Ah well, if you have another Mac that you can connect to the web, you might be able to collect all the required additional data - have fun finding whatever it is Logic needs for a start. If you don't have another Mac (but, say, a Windows or Linux based office machine), you won't even be able to download the initial install. All that "you must be connected to the web to get things" (which partially also includes the stupid iCloud thing...) stuff might be fine for iPhones, iPads and probably laptops. But many serious production machines simply aren't connected to the web. Heck, some of them sit in some machine rooms and never see the light of the day. Also, has anybody at Apple ever spent a thought about lesser developed countries? Countries in which private, fast internet lines still aren't the norm? What are people gonna do in those countries? Carry their Mac Pros to a Cybercafé and spend some hours there updating them? Really, as the only solution, the entire Apple Shop thing is laughable for professional software. - Sascha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furrytoes Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Also, has anybody at Apple ever spent a thought about lesser developed countries? Countries in which private, fast internet lines still aren't the norm? You don't even have to be less developed. A country like Australia has massive distances between cities with an average of 2 people per km. Thus the expense of properly provisioning internet access is prohibitive and most of the time, doesn't make any economic sense. So although the govt is working on it, many towns just don't have broadband yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 This is *exactly* why the new download scheme is utterly stupid.You *need* to have your target machine connected to the web. Ah well, if you have another Mac that you can connect to the web, you might be able to collect all the required additional data - have fun finding whatever it is Logic needs for a start. Logic doesn't generally need the internet to run. When I first ran 9.1.6, I had the internet turned off. Logic ran fine. I tried the "Download additional content" and all that happened was a message that said "Can't contact download servers" or something similar. However, apps bought in the app store I think do have to be kinda authorised at least once over the internet, otherwise they complain - but seeing as these apps you are buying from the internet anyway, it's mostly not a big deal. However, in cases where you have bought Logic from the app store on one machine, and intend to put it on a non-networked machine, that can be a pain. I think Apple regard these as "out of the norm" cases though, and don't worry too much about these people having to jump through hoops a little bit - they'd probably just say "turn on wifi, authorise the app, then turn it off again, no big deal"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 However, apps bought in the app store I think do have to be kinda authorised at least once over the internet, otherwise they complain - but seeing as these apps you are buying from the internet anyway, it's mostly not a big deal. I don't agree with this. It could very well become a big deal in certain cases. Apart from that, there's almost no software vendor which products require an internet connection on the target machine. Sure, many of them require some form of internet-based authorisation, but you can always do that on other machines (regardless of the OS these machines are running). You usually get a challenge file, take that to whatever computer connected to the net and get a response file that you feed into the target machine. A USB stick and an internet café almost always do the job just fine. In case of dongles, yes, it's easier to have the target machine connected to the net as you usually need an extra program to authorize the dongle. But at least it *could* be done on a separate machine. In case of Logic, it can't, However, in cases where you have bought Logic from the app store on one machine, and intend to put it on a non-networked machine, that can be a pain. I think Apple regard these as "out of the norm" cases though, and don't worry too much about these people having to jump through hoops a little bit - they'd probably just say "turn on wifi, authorise the app, then turn it off again, no big deal"... With that they completely ignore the fact that in some locations there's neither WiFi nor cabled networking available. And especially in professional studios, that often is the case, once your computers are in a machine room or wherever. I still stick to my statement: That new "your computer has to have an active (and better damn fast) internet connection" policy sucks. As said, it might be ok-ish for anything mobile, for iMacs and Mac Pros it isn't. Also, what a ridiculously stupid idea that you have to waste yet some more download bandwidth (and even Apple doesn't provide unlimited speed or connectivity, it has been more than once that I couldn't connect to the App Store...) just to get your content onto a second computer (something Apple actually allows). In case you had the entire shebang on one machine already, you'd just put it onto an external HDD and copy it to the target machine. But with that new policy it's gonna be a very tough task to actually find all the content and copy it (if it even was possible). Really, such things are making me worry about Logics future more than many others. It's now treated like a goddamn iOS-App, not like a professional program. And as said, generally I find the idea of software being a "download only" product quite OK both economically and ecologically. Just that you better manage this in a professional way. Next thing Apple may perhaps come up with would be that you can only install Logic on a second machine via iCloud. Requiring you to expand your iCloud space and also requiring yet some more internet action. Oops, I should better shut up, maybe they'll be stealing this idea... - Sascha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 However, apps bought in the app store I think do have to be kinda authorised at least once over the internet, otherwise they complain - but seeing as these apps you are buying from the internet anyway, it's mostly not a big deal. I don't agree with this. It could very well become a big deal in certain cases. Seems to be you are agreeing with me - by saying it's a big deal in certain cases, is pretty much the same as "mostly not a big deal", except in the outlying cases I then went on to describe. Apart from that, there's almost no software vendor which products require an internet connection on the target machine. Sure, many of them require some form of internet-based authorisation, but you can always do that on other machines (regardless of the OS these machines are running). But isn't this exactly what the app store Logic is doing? It doesn't need to be permanently connected to the internet to run, nor is it have to always connect to the internet to first launch. You seem to think it does..? With that they completely ignore the fact that in some locations there's neither WiFi nor cabled networking available. And especially in professional studios, that often is the case, once your computers are in a machine room or wherever. Yes, that was my point with my comment here - for the few users this affects, they *probably* don't care that much, and will leave it up to the user to figure out. I wasn't saying I condone this, just that's probably the expectation. Perhaps they might even be surprised someone is running a Mac without a net connection these days..? Also, what a ridiculously stupid idea that you have to waste yet some more download bandwidth (and even Apple doesn't provide unlimited speed or connectivity, it has been more than once that I couldn't connect to the App Store...) just to get your content onto a second computer (something Apple actually allows). In case you had the entire shebang on one machine already, you'd just put it onto an external HDD and copy it to the target machine. But with that new policy it's gonna be a very tough task to actually find all the content and copy it (if it even was possible). While I don't disagree, you could also on the other hand take the argument that it's "ridiculous" to stick one old version of software onto millions of plastic disks, put them in large boxes with hundreds of pages of printed documentation that will be out of date by the time it's sent to print, stick thousands of them on lorries and boats and ship them around the world, when you could just as easily click one button and have it there in your home in minutes (or overnight, say, for very large downloads if that's your thing). I'm pretty sure you could take a USB stick into the Apple Store (if you wanted to drive/travel there and had the time) and download it there. Online software distribution though is undoubtedly the future for anything other than B2B supported computer systems. As usual, Apple are aggressively committing to the future before others, but it's one way they manage to stay ahead. And as said, generally I find the idea of software being a "download only" product quite OK both economically and ecologically. Just that you better manage this in a professional way. Ok. Saw this after I wrote above... Fair enough, I don't disagree. The bottom line is that the internet is becoming more and more required, and more and more expected, just like everyone expects people to have a phone, and a TV, and a debit/credit card etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 beej, I really don't exactly disagree with your statements, such as an internet connection being a requirement, I actually do think it's what's going to happen. But we're not there yet. Seriously, there's quite some folks who leave their studio machines offline. Be it simply because there's no net connection or because they're concerned with security issues (a valid concern IMO, even under OSX). Or even because they just don't want to waste time browsing the net (chances are rather high you may do so at one point in time, as we probably all know...) to boost their productivity. And while Apple is indeed often like "living on the fence of technological options" (or whatever), I still don't think their current model of downloading and authorising professional software is what users need. As strange as it might be to some hardcore OSX/Mac users, in addition to those running machines without net connection, there's still quite some folks using, say, a Windows (or even Linux) box for their office and net duties (and apart from certain higher security risks there's very good reasons for that, IMO Windows still makes up for a *way* better multimedia OS). All these folks are left in the dark - or need to go through possibly exhausting actions to get Logic onto their computers. We're simply not there yet. As soon as I'm on tour (which is happening at least once a year), I'd be happy to share a Logic update with someone else, so not all of us have to find whatever acceptable/affordable net connection. And well, I'm not touring in 3rd world countries or anything, this is about Europe and the likes. And I even use a laptop as my main machine. As far as your "you could probably go to some Apple Store and download it there" point goes: No, that isn't possible, not even if they wanted to help me out. The reason being that almost nobody these days is able to find out about the locations of whatever content that might be downloaded with each update. Really, it's quite spread all over the place. Being a "computer-interested" person, I do of course more or less know where to look, but that does in no way mean I'd be sure to get everything important, I could as well just overlook some things. Simple downloads with some installers or files with instructions about where to place them would make this a lot easier - but Apple apparently isn't providing either anymore. Cheers Sascha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Welcome to the Borg. Resistance is futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Welcome to the Borg. Resistance is futile. *SARCASM SENSORS ACTIVATED IN SECTOR 12. INCOMPLETE ASSIMILATION DETECTED. SQUADS READY FOR TERMINATION.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 As far as your "you could probably go to some Apple Store and download it there" point goes: No, that isn't possible, not even if they wanted to help me out. The reason being that almost nobody these days is able to find out about the locations of whatever content that might be downloaded with each update. Really, it's quite spread all over the place. You lost me here. Apple can almost certainly AppStore applications onto your machine for you, the geniuses do this all the time. Anyway - too much of a thread digression to really get into this stuff. As ever with the new Apple, you do it their way, or your find workarounds where possible, or you don't do it at all. Stick with your current, non-AppStore version of Logic, continue to download updates via SoftwareUpdate for the near forseeable future, and things are as they always were. If you really want to buy the next major version of Logic, that might change, but for now, things can be as they always were, for a while longer at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Native Instruments/ilok style apps etc allow you to register their apps through a 2nd computer - why can't we do this with Logic 9.1.6 without having to network our studio Macs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hi For those concerned about multiple downloads, installing on 'other' Macs etc, perhaps this will help? http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5061 CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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