Next update 10.5 or will it jump to 11 and...

[Sascha Franck]

Oh, and a decent pitching/stretching algorithm. As is, only small corrections are possible.

[Ploki]

Oh, and a decent pitching/stretching algorithm. As is, only small corrections are possible.

They should just reintegrate iZotope Radius and mash it into the flex time.

 

i just want an exs24, delay designer and ultrabeat UI updates.

 

interface literally didnt change since 2002...

http://www.petelockett.com/petes%20new%20pics/logic%20pics/exs%2024.jpg

[David Nahmani]

Possible huge improvements:

 

- A clip based thing a la Live/Bitwig. Digital Performer has it now as well.

So does GarageBand.

 

[Ploki]

i prefer how garage band does it.

i see no place for it in LPX frankly, and i dont get it why they crammed it in DP. (and its a blatant ableton ripoff)

 

i can see this useful in Mainstage.

 

clips in Ableton is mostly a live performance thing

[Sascha Franck]

clips in Ableton is mostly a live performance thing

 

Well, from what I've seen (I don't know much about Live), they can be used for very inspiring things in a "standard composing process", too.

Whatever, I've never seen that in GB - but admittedly, I haven't used it at all, others than for taking a brief look.

 

As said, a new sampling/mangling/stretching/synthesis tool would be the biggest improvement I could imagine. And I'm sure people would simply love it.

Here's some of the things this could do:

 

- Mark a section in your arrange. Ideally, this would work for AU instrument regions, too (which could be automatically rendered in the background).

 

- Select a command similar to "auto create sampler track", just that now it'd be sent straight to the new "engine".

 

- The layout of that engine would be similar to a typical pad-style drum player. Think Battery or similar.

 

- You could now replace individual cells with other samples or a synth engine. Or with a layer of either.

 

- Ideally, with sliced up loops, there'd be an option to "consolidate" the samples. Let's say there's a snare on beats 2 and 4. This would usually result in a sliced up pattern with at least two "cells" (or zones, in more standard sampler speak) used up for a snare. Now, that new tool would allow you to select the two (or more) and press "consolidate" which would automatically adjust the corresponding MIDI file (which is also using 2 note numbers for the snares after the initial slicing), so you'd end up with just one sample pad and one note number to trigger your snare (way easier to deal with when you want to manipulate a groove).

 

- Others than external AU solutions, an integrated thing would allow you to use more than just 127 MIDI notes. There'd be some ways to skin that cat, one being to use, say, articulation IDs to double/triple/quadruple/etc. the maximum amount of notes. But with a cleverly laid out consolidation thing this might not even be required.

 

- As a further option, it would be possible to have an entire track running through this new engine. With that, whenever you find an interesting thing in that track (let's say a vocal syllable or phrase), you could mark it and it'd instantly be "beamed" to a sampler pad. Then, by default, it'd be triggered by a MIDI note at the corresponding position. Just that now you could as well trigger it via MIDI and add all kinds of effects to just that syllable/phrase easily.

 

- Talking about FX, all kinds of sample modification should be offered. Such as stuttering and what not. Think along the lines of FXpansions Geist.

 

- And talking about Geist, there should be a step sequencer, allowing you to manipulate your individual cells per step. You could for example reverse the cell just on beat 1 whereas all the other beats would play the cell straight - without altering anything in the cell. Or have a special effect on the cells on a per step base.

And because this would be tightly integrated into Logic, there'd be no need to create your arrangement twice - which is what you sort of have to do in Geist to take full advance of the step sequencer per step manipulations (as these don't get exported with the MIDI export function).

 

- All this could of course be taken yet one step further and also include the full (and then as well updated) EXS sampling engine, so it'd be as well useful for traditional instruments, just that with this updated version, things would actually allow you to really do wicked things (which the EXS isn't any good for).

I still don't own Omnmisphere (a bit on the too expensive side right now), but if you folks have it, you will know about it's granular sample mangling options (in case you also don't own it, look it up at the Spectrasonics site or on YT). It's simply jawdropping. Imagine something like that to be integrated in this new tool, especially given the tight Logic integration. You could grab any vocal syllable anywhere in a track and instantly send it through that granular tweaking. Or you could morph your guitar riff into a lush pad or whatever.

 

As said before, I could possibly continue all day long. And I'm sure people would wet their pants if anything like this would materialize in Logic. It'd take several things to a whole new level.

In addition, it'd adress quite some of the gripes people are having with Logic, namely the never really updated EXS and Ultrabeat instruments.

 

Whatever, anything even just remotely heading into such a direction would be ten times more worth than yet another wrapped content delivering thing (aka mass over class) that doesn't work properly anyway because it's building up on decade old code.

[anp27]

i can see this useful in Mainstage.

Yup, now that you mentioned it we're more likely to see this feature in MainStage. I think trying to cram yet another feature like that into Logic would be silly... it would then be one hell of a bloated app! From a business point of a view it makes sense too. Use a free app like Garageband to silently advertise 2 paid apps: MainStage and Logic.

[skijumptoes]

Loops are a brilliant tool for compositions, if you’re a solo musician you can record the backings and part changes then perform over the top to come up with ideas. I.e. it’s like jamming with robot copies of yourself

 

Just like how many guitarists are composing with looper pedals really.

[Sascha Franck]

Loops are good for a whole lot of purposes.

But hey, we could as well just ask Apple to remove the loop functionality for regions because it's not for "real" composers, right?

[Ploki]

that was never my argument, just that all use cases mentioned here are more of a live situation.

 

you can use mainstage and logic side by side..

 

i just don't want more wrapped crap in logic, and i feel like clips like GB will be exactly that.

 

for example, i like how DMD works, but doing your own thing in it is just a pain in the butt so i steer away from it completely.

[fisherking]

i want to see more features, options... then i can choose to use what works for me (there are a lot of things in LX i don't need, but it's great they're there for people who do use them). more really is better, and choice is something we always have.

[Sascha Franck]

i just don't want more wrapped crap in logic, and i feel like clips like GB will be exactly that.

 

for example, i like how DMD works, but doing your own thing in it is just a pain in the butt so i steer away from it completely.

 

Well, the wrapping nonsense is exactly what upsets me quite a bit. While it's a sort of achievement on its own to bring new life into those old things, it's absolutely the opposite of fresh, new, exciting and efficient. Trying to polish a turd and all that... I still remember my "WTF?!?" when I opened DMD for the first time and it was using up almost an entire CPU thread for what is just an average electronic drumset, something I can have in Battery at a fraction of the CPU cost.

And that's exactly why I think Logics entire sampling and sample mangling department should get a complete overhaul. In addition, it'd be the perfect platform as all the plugins and tools don't have to be compatible at all (as sad as that might be from another POV).

[Ploki]

I don't care for backwards compatibility at all.

nobody who does things professionally wont upgrade mid-project

 

stick exs24/ultrabeat and all other old fx into "legacy" and be done with it

[skijumptoes]

Must admit, I don’t like the wrapping method of utilising and loading up more complicated channel strips, that’s why I stay clear of DMD. In fact, I hate anything that creates a load of new busses etc.

 

New features should be clean, and new. I.e. the new FX plugins are a great example of that. In fact, even drummer is quite a clean addition. Just a simple step editor would’ve been better than DMD. If they give us the basics it gives more options imho.

[Ploki]

yeah, library patches and "auto bussing" is a pretty pointless function for a professional session :[

[Sascha Franck]

yeah, library patches and "auto bussing" is a pretty pointless function for a professional session :[

 

Defenitely. With DMD being the undisputed champion of that nonsense. They could've added a "processed" folder in the library and be done with all that stuff, but instead I have to delete that stupid default FX bus Drummer is coming up each time (why is there a Chorus on it anyway? Oh yeah, I forgot, *the* staple when it comes to drum FX). And I really can't even open DMD at all as it's really making me angry seeing so much manpower going wasted to develop a toyish interface that is awkward to use and completely inferior when you compare it to any of the competitors.

They could've invested all those hours into an Ultrabeat improvement or whatever. UB always had some potential but due to the most horrible GUI it never unleashed its full potential. But hey, fortunately by now there's a *much* better (cough...) UI for it...

[nathanimal]

I'm really going to reach on this one...

 

1. New Mac Pro to be launched in Q2 or Q3 of this year. It will be Apple's vehicle to introduce the Mac line to their new custom ARM architecture. This is why it has taken them so long to update the damn thing.

 

2. v10.4.4 is the last version of LPX. The next version, which may or may not be called Logic Pro, is being written for ARM from the ground up, and as such, is also being reimagined from the ground up, by a separate team from the one who has been updating LPX on the x86 platform.

[skijumptoes]

The way software is developed nowadays you don’t have to target a specific CPU architecture in much of what the team will work on, it’s not like they’re working in assembly to get every last inch of power from a machine now, and vast majority will be people working on each software libraries and interfaces that sit within the framework of Logic as an application.

 

And neither do I think they would slam the door at such a short notice on such a massive scale. The dev community would have at least 12 months knowledge.

 

If Apple wanted to show off their skills and new architecture it would be the ability of bridging that gap with their software frameworks and IDE’s which they’ve invested countless amounts of money into.

 

I expect that they have chord track/chord analysis as a prime feature in the new update and couldn’t get it through QA for release, it’s somethung they’ve struggled with in the past.

 

LPX is the product brand, I believe the X isn’t really synamous with the version number inside Apple. So expect 10.5, 10.6 etc etc

 

But, it’s entirely possible they want to make money on it some more, so who knows. This Apple isn’t really the same one I’ve known most my life.

[Sascha Franck]

I'm really going to reach on this one...

 

1. New Mac Pro to be launched in Q2 or Q3 of this year. It will be Apple's vehicle to introduce the Mac line to their new custom ARM architecture. This is why it has taken them so long to update the damn thing.

 

2. v10.4.4 is the last version of LPX. The next version, which may or may not be called Logic Pro, is being written for ARM from the ground up, and as such, is also being reimagined from the ground up, by a separate team from the one who has been updating LPX on the x86 platform.

 

Uhm, if any of that is going to happen, I'll defenitely leave the sinking ship.

[Ploki]

I'm really going to reach on this one...

 

1. New Mac Pro to be launched in Q2 or Q3 of this year. It will be Apple's vehicle to introduce the Mac line to their new custom ARM architecture. This is why it has taken them so long to update the damn thing.

 

2. v10.4.4 is the last version of LPX. The next version, which may or may not be called Logic Pro, is being written for ARM from the ground up, and as such, is also being reimagined from the ground up, by a separate team from the one who has been updating LPX on the x86 platform.

 

ARM mac pro? that's a far reach imo...

 

As for point2: would they screw over everyone who just bought new Macs?! Not even the basic iOS apps work crossplatform, i doubt that's gonna happen

[nathanimal]

Anybody here remember the transition from 680X0 to PPC? And from PPC to Intel? My memory is probably a little foggy, but those were both pretty well-kept secrets before their announcements, as I recall. And in both cases, it’s because Apple was prepared with system level emulation out of the gate.

[Sascha Franck]

Anybody here remember the transition from 680X0 to PPC? And from PPC to Intel? My memory is probably a little foggy, but those were both pretty well-kept secrets before their announcements, as I recall. And in both cases, it’s because Apple was prepared with system level emulation out of the gate.

 

True, but PPC apps kept working for a whole while on Intel machines.

[simon.a.billington]

Apple’s versioning system is different for Logic, as it is with MacOS it it’s other pro-apps.

 

We ALREADY hit version 11 effectively when we got Logic 10.1. That was the equivalent of version 11. As with the other software you just ignore the first 10... or add it to the second number if you like.

 

So Logic Pro X 10.4.4 simple becomes Logic Pro X 4.4... version 5 will be the major release.

 

Or if you want to go by the old system, add the 10 to the second digit, you get Logic Pro 14.4, with version 15 as the next major release.

 

I do wish people would stop asking about 11 as that happened quite a few years back.

[Atlas007]

Just curious here, but where did you get that?

[Ploki]

Apple’s versioning system is different for Logic, as it is with MacOS it it’s other pro-apps.

 

We ALREADY hit version 11 effectively when we got Logic 10.1. That was the equivalent of version 11. As with the other software you just ignore the first 10... or add it to the second number if you like.

 

So Logic Pro X 10.4.4 simple becomes Logic Pro X 4.4... version 5 will be the major release.

 

Or if you want to go by the old system, add the 10 to the second digit, you get Logic Pro 14.4, with version 15 as the next major release.

 

I do wish people would stop asking about 11 as that happened quite a few years back.

 

cool, so 3 major revisions and still not 100% retina?

[des99]

cool, so 3 major revisions and still not 100% retina?

 

They only have so many developers, and those development resources are always split between, in the main:

- Developing new features

- Investigating and fixing bugs

- Bringing legacy code/technologies/features forward (eg updating the old plugins)

- Implementing Apple-mandated platform technologies, changes and transitions

 

Not to mention it's not just Logic, but Garageband, Mainstage and other stuff...

 

Updating these old plugins is also not just a question of slightly updating the graphics either. In many cases, you're looking at complete new front end designs, and for complicated plugins like Sculpture or Ultrabeat, that's not trivial - and you've got to maintain 100% the sound and features of the old plugins before you can retire them.

 

I'm sure Apple is just as keen to move beyond those old emagic interfaces too, as they look very dated now... but if it was quick and easy, it would have been all done by now, I'm sure.

[Ploki]

it's one of the richest most valued companies on the planet.

and most of plugins were just that - reskinned.

i mean, they could literally hire two guys for 4 months to make it happen.

[Sascha Franck]

They could as well index the old plugins "legacy", keep them "half-hidden" (just as the other ones hidden there) for nerds and backwards compatibility and call it a day. And then concentrate on something of real interest going beyond that halfbaked wrapping business.

[des99]

it's one of the richest most valued companies on the planet.

 

 

and most of plugins were just that - reskinned.

 

Yes. The simplest, easiest ones were finished first. As you'd expect.

 

i mean, they could literally hire two guys for 4 months to make it happen.

 

There's, like, literally hundreds of things they could make happen. Ask 100 Logic users what they think the Logic development team should be doing, you'll get 100 different answers. Well, maybe 80

 

Unfortunately for this particular feature request, it looks like their priorities are elsewhere, or the work is in progress but isn't done yet, or it has dependencies that aren't done yet. The bottom line is how they choose to manage their development is their business.

 

They could as well index the old plugins "legacy", keep them "half-hidden" (just as the other ones hidden there) for nerds and backwards compatibility and call it a day.

 

They could. And I'm sure it's been discussed many times, and they've chosen the course they are on, based on many things that the rest of us outside don't know about.

 

And then concentrate on something of real interest going beyond that halfbaked wrapping business.

 

Sure, they make decisions that sometimes I'd rather have gone differently, but then I'm mostly only thinking about my own needs, not running a pro development team on a huge project used by many thousands of people.. The fact that they did the DMD at all suggests that they are aware that eg Ultrabeat's interface is old, complex and dated, they are aware of the need to improve Logic in the "beats" department, and that they approach they chose indicates that updating Ultrabeat was not a viable choice, in the timeframe they needed.

 

Eventually, I expect the old plugins will either go to Legacy heaven, or will have GUI-updated equivalents, or will be replaced with something better. I'd like to see the old stuff get updated, but really, from wher I am, I'm not too bothered by it (I simply use other, better alternatives) and I would prefer that the development resources don't go into more plugins, rather into more core Logic stuff.

 

Of course, we all want everything, perfect and bug-free, thoughtfully and carefully implemented, and we all want it in the next version (and we want that version now!).

 

Same old story.

[Ploki]

Dude, there's really no excuse. Apple made HiDPI computing happen - and protools were fully retina optimised WAY before logic was.

It's been 7 years since first retina mac was released. Seven. Years.

And the waveforms are still rendered at non-retina resolution.

After SEVEN. YEARS.

 

DMD is just a clunky frontend you can't do real work with. They're slapping make up on.

 

I don't know why are you making excuses for this, really. This is purely hygiene. And no, it doesnt take that much work.

And a lot of plugins that is literally 2 knobs and just need to be reskinned took them 5 years, such as Gain/sample delay and small stuff like that.

 

Space designer has no new features. Its literally re-skinned and nothing else. I don't need ultrabeat redesigned right now either, just make it look like its not 1995.

 

This is like FCPX wouldn't support 10bit video now that they sell an apple branded 10bit display.

 

also, don't roll your eyes at me for pointing out they can afford it. A single iphone promo pic costs more than everything they threw into redesigning logic plugins. They can afford it. It wont make them money, but it wont lose them any either, not really.

This is not some small struggling boutique developer.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Ploki

[Sascha Franck]

and I would prefer that the development resources don't go into more plugins, rather into more core Logic stuff.

 

Couldn't agree more. I have said so before: If I want, I can buy any plugin from 3rd parties. But 3rd parties won't fix the broken beatmapping or zoom functions.

 

I would however like to see a deeply integrated "creative sampler" sort of thing. Full drag'n'drop support from and to anywhere, certain automatic song syncing options and what not. Or a modular environment allowing me to play it either as an instrument or use it as an FX device, placed literally anywhere in the signal chain. These are the things tough to realize with 3rd party plugins.