Sysex patch storage and retrieval confusion

[exmachina]

I would like to start saving my patch data with my song data. Seems like this should be fairly straightforward -- create a new external MIDI track, start recording and initiate a patch dump from the synth. Play the track to send the sysex data back to the synth. Right?

The first step appears to work fine -- I see the sysex data in Logic's event editor -- however, playing the track does not send the sysex data back to the synth. 

Using SysEx Librarian I can capture and return the patch data with no problem. What might I be missing?

[des99]

It really depends on the device in question, as the sysex specs of various items of hardware can differ wildly. Having said that, if Sysex Librarian works, then there would seem to be no special handshaking etc required, so it *should* work.

If you're using the external MIDI *plugin* to send MIDI to the synth, it's likely that doesn't pass sysex, so try it the oldschool Logic way - create an instrument object in the environment set to the correct MIDI port and channel, assign that to a track, and move the recorded sysex to that track, then play it back. Does it work now?

Edited November 22, 2022 by des99

[exmachina]

7 minutes ago, des99 said:

- create an instrument object in the environment set to the correct MIDI port and channel, assign that to a track, and move the recorded sysex to that track, then play it back. Does it work now?

It does. But... why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[exmachina]

Ok, so it works as expected when you are using an external midi track SANS external instrument plugin for sysex dump capture and transmission. My test case was using the external instrument plugin.

That's... arbitrary? A bug? Or is there a good reason why Logic should capture a sysex dump but not transmit it on tracks using the external instrument plugin?

Thanks much, des99, I really appreciate it.

Edited November 22, 2022 by exmachina

[des99]

Ok, that was a good hunch it seems! 😉

I'm pretty sure it's that Logic doesn't support sending MIDI sysex to software instrument plugins, which is why you get that behaviour.

[exmachina]

1 minute ago, des99 said:

Ok, that was a good hunch it seems! 😉

I'm pretty sure it's that Logic doesn't support sending MIDI sysex to software instrument plugins, which is why you get that behaviour.

Ah, ok, that makes a recent David Nahmani comment about how using the external instruments plugin really turns an external midi track into a software instrument track something I can now get my head around -- thanks again!

[grubmanus]

Des basically already said as much, but it took me a while to realize that the External MIDI track and the External Instrument plugin aren't entirely the same--the main practical difference for me being that one gives you MIDI FX (the instrument plugin) and the other gives you program changes (the MIDI track), but neither gives you both.

So just something to be aware of when choosing between them, which of those 2 things is more important to you for a given track.

Edited November 23, 2022 by grubmanus
grammar

[exmachina]

12 hours ago, grubmanus said:

Des basically already said as much, but it took me a while to realize that the External MIDI track and the External Instrument plugin aren't entirely the same--the main practical difference for me being that one gives you MIDI FX (the instrument plugin) and the other gives you program changes (the MIDI track), but neither gives you both.

So just something to be aware of when choosing between them, which of those 2 things is more important to you for a given track.

Yeah, the difference between the two options are pretty significant and has caused a lot of confusion now that I'm finally getting around to integrating my hardware synths.

Super-annoyingly, I was expecting Logic's MIDI in/out indicators to work for both approaches, but it only works with external MIDI tracks w/o using the external instruments plugin for some weird reason. Muting behavior is another unexpected difference.

All this is slowly penetrating my thick skull thanks to you guys, so thanks again.

Edited November 23, 2022 by exmachina