polanoid Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Burkhard Fincke said: I just tried this with a new project, and promptly a ? region appeared while recording in cycle-mode. You mean when "Cycle On" was set to "Merge"? This would contradict @HoraceWimp's findings. Can you post a video of that happening in a fresh new project? Edited March 8, 2023 by polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Yes, exactly. I just tried to reproduce this - without success. So far everything works normal with every new project 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 I just returned to another project with many tracks/plugs - this project has been affected by the ? regions. Since I am using the latest recording settings (see the pic from my last post as well as HoraceWimp´s pic) - there are no problems so far, no matter if the cycle is on or off.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 52 minutes ago, Burkhard Fincke said: I just returned to another project with many tracks/plugs - this project has been affected by the ? regions. Since I am using the latest recording settings (see the pic from my last post as well as HoraceWimp´s pic) - there are no problems so far, no matter if the cycle is on or off.. that sounds good. But I wouldn't be too optimistic - for projects that have had the problem before, it might come back. Like the defective regions after deleting, they appeared again and again, could also be created with the pencil. But these settings should hopefully prevent the new occurrence of such regions in new songs, provided my assumption and research results above are correct 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, polanoid said: @HoraceWimp great sleuthing! 100% reproducible over here. Did you report this to Apple already? I haven't done it yet, but I will. Maybe we should all do that, who are concerned, to give the matter more emphasis 🙂 But I'm not so confident that this will be fixed quickly, after my experience with reporting bugs to apple. Edited March 8, 2023 by HoraceWimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, HoraceWimp said: But I'm not so confident that this will be fixed quickly, after my experience with reporting bugs to apple. Which ones are you still waiting for to be fixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 hours ago, polanoid said: Which ones are you still waiting for to be fixed? oh, it's not that bad, I may have exaggerated 😉 - but it always takes long time for something to happen after it's known. The strange bug with the view bouncing in the audio bin window when prelistening took years. At the moment I can't think of that much. Maybe the not 100% working solo lock key command (should toggle), but that's peanuts. The no longer properly working checksum calculation for sysex faders in the environment (broken for ages). But it could be worse. 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 After working several hours on an affected project without any issues - suddenly a new ?region appeared again - while recording in CYCLE Mode. I then tried to record on the very same track without cycle - and it directly worked. I was able to merge the affected ?region with the clean region - after this, the merged region is clean and editable. Afterwards you also can record on this track in Cycle Mode again and there were no more issues on that specific track. ? region test 2.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 BUT... after doing so, every next recording on any track (with or without cycle mode) results in ?regions... I will create a new project and import anything from that affected one. Let´s see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 ...and also the display/view of the regions (notes) are missing, see att pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 yes, that is exactly how "infected" projects behave, it is the same here . We now seem to know how to create and avoid the broken regions - how to get rid of them sustainably once they are in would be the next step in research. If that is at all possible with our resources. I remember having success a few months ago with importing all the project tracks into a new one. Another time, however, the error came up again in the new song - but maybe I had just made another multiple-track recording and destroyed the song again. That was before I knew how it happened. So track import could possibly be a solution to heal projects. Have you already tried it? Your last screenshot still shows the infected song - or is that after re-import? then that would mean that this would not be a solution either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Yes, the screenshot shows the infected project. The re-import works, so far... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I think I might tentatively have worked out the relationship between the tracks stuck in record and the ? regions. It looks like when recording in loop mode and automatically creating new tracks, Logic gets confused about which track should be selected. Two things I've noticed when the recording is finished: 1. ALL of the new tracks are selected, rather than just the first or last (can't remember what normal behaviour was before, but I assume just the most recently recorded track would be selected?). 2. When then selecting a completely different track (different instrument) the first of the recorded tracks remains armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, AllTheButtons said: I think I might tentatively have worked out the relationship between the tracks stuck in record and the ? regions. It looks like when recording in loop mode and automatically creating new tracks, Logic gets confused about which track should be selected. Two things I've noticed when the recording is finished: 1. ALL of the new tracks are selected, rather than just the first or last (can't remember what normal behaviour was before, but I assume just the most recently recorded track would be selected?). 2. When then selecting a completely different track (different instrument) the first of the recorded tracks remains armed. You do know the difference between a selected and a focused track, right? Only one can be focused, multiple tracks can be selected. In this screenshot, track 3 is focused, track 4 is only selected. The focused track is always selected as well. But indeed you're right, when creating new tracks because of overlapping recordings, the previously focused track keeps its rec enabled state, even though it was never manually rec enabled. I think this is a bug. Care to report it to Apple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, polanoid said: You do know the difference between a selected and a focused track, right? Only one can be focused, multiple tracks can be selected. In this screenshot, track 3 is focused, track 4 is only selected. The focused track is always selected as well. But indeed you're right, when creating new tracks because of overlapping recordings, the previously focused track keeps its rec enabled state, even though it was never manually rec enabled. I think this is a bug. Care to report it to Apple? Good point re focused/selected tracks, although I work with the channel numbers off so it's not normally visible. Yes I'll report this to Apple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 11 hours ago, AllTheButtons said: Good point re focused/selected tracks, although I work with the channel numbers off so it's not normally visible. Yes I'll report this to Apple. Thanks in the name of all people who are, have been, and will be affected by this 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebbemarcus Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Me too! started a new thread here: will summarize my findings here tomorrow. Running latest versions of everything, UAD apollo twin interface. M-audio oxygen pro 49. This might be random, but I was working on a project for a while with my midi keyboard switched off, and everything worked fine. I turned it on to record something, and after that I alt-copied another region (not the recently recorded one) and it turned into a ?-region immediately. Not sure if the keyboard messed it up or if it’s just a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) On 3/12/2023 at 8:37 PM, sebbemarcus said: I was working on a project for a while with my midi keyboard switched off, and everything worked fine. I turned it on to record something, and after that I alt-copied another region (not the recently recorded one) and it turned into a ?-region immediately. Not sure if the keyboard messed it up or if it’s just a coincidence. as far as we could already test out here, it probably has nothing to do with connected midi devices (see all the research in this thread :-)). Maybe the song where this happens to you is already "infected" from before and you didn't notice it ? Or maybe there are other causes for the phenomenon, who knows. Edited March 16, 2023 by HoraceWimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratboy Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Thanks everyone for your contribution to this topic. Exact thing is happening to me with the "?" on midi regions and then serious challenges in editing, listening back and moving that region. I got a little lost in this conversation. Is someone able to summarize the best fix or workaround at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ratboy said: I got a little lost in this conversation. Is someone able to summarize the best fix or workaround at this point? I’ve found that every time I alt drag (copy) an affected region, it alternates from normal to affected and back again. So to ‘fix’ a region, I copy it to the end of the timeline, delete the original, and move it back. Also, make sure you have the Record button visible on the arrange page, and watch out for it getting ‘stuck’ on tracks that aren’t selected. Recording while in this buggy state (when in loop mode, with ‘create new tracks’ option on) appears to cause the affected regions. Edited March 19, 2023 by AllTheButtons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) This seems to be a relatively new thing - it might be helpful if people experiencing this can state the version of Logic they are experiencing it on - this might point to a particular version that introduced this behaviour... Edited March 20, 2023 by des99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Just now, des99 said: This seems to be a relatively new thing - it might be helpful if people experiencing this can state the version of Logic they are experiencing it on - this might point to a particular version that introduced this behaviour... Logic 10.7.7, Intel, macOS 12.6.3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebbemarcus Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Logic 10.7.7, M2 pro, macOS 13.2.1 Should also mention that this bug is not at all random for me - i.e it's not limited to infecting particular projects. The bug has turned up on all projects started since upgrading to my new machine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Anyone get this on 10.7.6, or 10.75? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 i definitely had it in 10.7.5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, sebbemarcus said: Logic 10.7.7, M2 pro, macOS 13.2.1 Should also mention that this bug is not at all random for me - i.e it's not limited to infecting particular projects. The bug has turned up on all projects started since upgrading to my new machine. that's interesting, here it does not always occur, only under the conditions found (see above in the thread). Since I changed my settings like here:https://www.logicprohelp.com/forums/topic/147502-sometimes-weird-midi-regions-with-question-mark-in-the-name-anyone-else/?do=findComment&comment=856603 I fortunately haven't had it at all. (at least not in newly started projects, already "infected" ones still have it.) Does it also happen when you create a completely new, empty project, so starting from none of your templates or old projects? Edited March 20, 2023 by HoraceWimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Logic 10.7.7 / macOS 12.6.3 I also definitely had it in 10.7.4 / 10.7.5 / 10.7.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, Burkhard Fincke said: I also definitely had it in 10.7.4 / 10.7.5 / 10.7.6 Weird, I don't recall reports of this months back, and yet we've been seeing a lot of them recently, which is why I suspected it might be something just with recent versions. Roll on 10.8.x I guess, and hopefully a long list of fixes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elnn Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Burkhard Fincke said: Logic 10.7.7 / macOS 12.6.3 I also definitely had it in 10.7.4 / 10.7.5 / 10.7.6 Are you completely sure you had it in 10.7.4? I'll join the club. Logic 10.7.7 on OSX 12.6 on M1 Pro 2021 through system audio driver. I just returned from other DAWs for Region Folders, which I now use extensively. In addition to multiple tracks to the same channel strip. Additional behaviour: when ?-region is elicited, it might make other, non-foldered regions disappear from view and playback completely. You make a few changes here and there and these regions reappear. Edited March 21, 2023 by elnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Apple is aware of this issue and it should be fixed in an upcoming release. When this issue occurs, that apparently means that the project is suffering some kind of file corruption. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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