Elastic Time - It changes everything.

[Radley]

Elastic Time - It changes everything. Unfortunately, it is not a new feature of Logic 8, but Pro Tools 4.7.

 

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=5402.

 

I sincerely hope that Logic will provide something comparable very soon, because I believe this is the wave of the future. With this audio editing capability, a simple loop can be totally re-created into another, using the same sounds, yet with a totally different feel and effect - one sample can become 15 in a matter of minutes, and you are the one who hand-picks the variables/changes for musical compatability.

 

I truly believe this will be considered a major breakthrough for audio editing, and it will be very important in determining marketshares for the Pro audio software providers following the Pro Tools 4.7 release, scheduled within the next 2 weeks.

 

Hads

Edited November 6, 2007 by Radley

[Eric Wikman]

Breakthrough?

Other programs have had this for years.

 

http://www.generate-music.com/QT/AudioWiggleSX3.mov

[Radley]

Breakthrough?

Other programs have had this for years.

 

http://www.generate-music.com/QT/AudioWiggleSX3.mov

 

Not like this. Are you implying this is not an important feature?

 

Rad

[sayenex]

Wow.

 

that protools vid is amazing.

 

kind of feel humbled in a way. so many things that I feel logic is behind on, do you think We'll ever catch up?

 

Evan

[Eric Wikman]

I think this is a super important... must have for Logic next!

I have asked for it here before.. being a Cubase-switcher.

 

But PT has just added new goodies on what others have had for a while.

But just the basic features.. like what I show in the Vid... are of the most value to me 98%.

[Spunkadellic]

great....more toys for kids to make those dang rap beats in their bedroom!

 

just like on the mtv

 

it looks cool though

 

i still need a beter system in logic to quantize drums....i use protools for that

[Radley]

great....more toys for kids to make those dang rap beats in their bedroom!

 

just like on the mtv

 

it looks cool though

 

i still need a beter system in logic to quantize drums....i use protools for that

 

Perhaps we'll all be using it soon - what joyous unity! (hope Apple/Logic is there to share it) ;o)

[teamworkmammal]

gaaaah. i feel like we were so close to pulling some punches on didgidesign. i hate to see protools get there first. mah.

[Spunkadellic]

amen to that...team mammal....ive been boasting pretty hard to "pro tools onlys" about logic 8........we need more devices!!!!

 

i dont even use the new comping feature!!!!.....

 

and the new tab to transient is a big step....but still not as quick as tab to peak in pro tools

 

[benulous]

wow...that is SICK.

[dkgross]

yup..amazing. And, again..the chase is on.

 

Saddest part, tho..is watching Phil do this demo. He was THE Logic guy for years and years. Seeing him do this stuff for Digi and not Logic is tough. But..the guy knows his s#!+.

[muziksculp]

This is Very Cool, Creative, and Fun, Audio Editing Stuff !

 

Funny, but I was was expecting Logic Pro 8 to have this type of advanced elastic audio editing features before it was released, but, unfortunately, that was not the case.

 

I would not be surprised if they added similar type functions in a future update of LP8, hopefully we won't have to wait too long, IMHO, this type of elastic audio editing will be quite a standard editing feature in many DAWs in the near future, Logic Pro 8 will hopefully not be left behind, but rather take a leading role in the audio editing area.

 

I'm sure Apple/Logic team has something big up their sleeve. When will this happen ? Well, that's the "Million $ Question" .

[Morerecords]

Well, all Praise ABLETON for bringing this to the mainstream and inspiring about 6-8 years worth of glitched out, amazing techno records.

Guys, Logic offers this, but there is only one "algo-rhythm". I won't tell you how because it's just about my only "secret weapon" for sound design... but you can definitley do this in Logic.

[LogicGeek]

Hold tight. Apple is not stupid. Leopard is out. We need an update anyway. My guess is that we will soon see some elastic audio features very similar to the new Pro Tools packaged with some graphical pitch correction in the arrange window.

 

If I were in marketing for Apple I would wait for Digi to release 7.whatever and let them do my elastic audio marketing for me, let the buzz get out, let everybody get excited and want it . . . and then bang! - release an update for Logic, a paid update, that's got it all.

 

I would almost bet on this.

[jjigga3000]

Well, all Praise ABLETON for bringing this to the mainstream and inspiring about 6-8 years worth of glitched out, amazing techno records.

Guys, Logic offers this, but there is only one "algo-rhythm". I won't tell you how because it's just about my only "secret weapon" for sound design... but you can definitley do this in Logic.

I'm surprised that people don't know that Logic does this. It's a cool tool but it won't make you a better producer. For some reason people think that making beats and editing audio makes them a producer. LOL, Apple Loops people. Also Logic allows you to make groove quantination of audio.

[Morerecords]

and he spills the beans!

[ben parsons]

i'm with morerecords on this. i see exactly zero new ideas/technology in this clip. i've been timestretching like that since the demo of Ableton Live v. 2, now there up to v 7 which includes whole drumkit automation as seen in the protools vid, including mic manipulation, placement, etc for audio or MIDI.

 

also- did you notice we don't hear the timetretched vocals by themselves? only with other music playing at the same time? that's because even with great algorythms extreme stretching of non-percussive audio sounds not-so-great.

 

(not impressed)

[nikkik]

OK, could someone please make a vid doing this in Logic? I am sorry, but the feature set in Logic 8 simply does not include the tools to do the same thing. A primitive variation maybe, but not even close. If it did, there would NO reason for people to yearn for Beat Detective like features. This exceeds Beat Detective in certain areas, but for MIDI groove extraction, BD is still necessary.

 

What others have done with stretching and all is based upon a 3rd party set of algo's, at least that is my understanding (elastique by zplane?). PT usually runs slightly ahead of the pack in audio feature sets. In other areas, behind; one could say cautiously so, to soothe their own misgivings But, with RTAS loading problems and other resource nightmares, paired with crippled driver sets, and LE/MP being crippled enough to almost prohibit pro use (ALMOST), even if one were to spend nearly as much for a 003 + MPT + DVT2 as they would for a used HD Core + 96I/O to have the bare minimum to get into HD...which I feel is restricting now with native being where it is. Logic has an excellent feature set, and as a composer (primarily) I am drawn to Logic. I own PT, and use it regularly, as well. And if they bring the feature set up to par with Logic in the areas I want/require for my work/play, I will lean more toward PT again. And if I go to do some MIDI work (freelance), I will fall back on Logic. Both are great...both work for me for various things. Cannot imagine trying to work the way I used to....

[nikkik]

oh- and to the naysayers of stretching anything, due to degradation... how can you pass judgment without hearing it in action, sensibly at the very least, first? Any audio processing will ALWAYS introduce artifacting/degradation of some kind. Granted, many times, used well, processing provides a desired alteration, and/or an acceptable one at the very least. Heck, simply using a microphone to capture sound is destructive enough to the actual sound and experience to make the whole recording process an exercise in futility and frustration. But, it is just faithful enough that we accept the con's...simply to save those glorious moments in time.

 

Just because all time process algo's produced unacceptable levels of injury to your audio does not mean this one will. It may...and one could even say it is likely, based upon experience. But, to naysay and ignore something, simply to be heard, is a bit ignorant. I am not saying it will be perfect, or acceptable. Just that until we work with it, we cannot know.

[dkgross]

all one has to do is spend an hour with Melodyne to hear what REAL time-stretching/pitch shifting software is truly capable of doing.

 

and, yes..I'd LOVE to see a 'comparable' demo showing how to do this stuff in Logic.

[JPZ]

If elastic audio in PT is going to change the way anybody works and is such a must have that you need to abandon everything else then there are major problems with the way you work. Live's been doing this for a long time. The new version of Melodyne also does a great job of this although not across a multitrack drumkit. C 'mon people!

[LogicGeek]

It's not so much the time stretching of audio in that pro-tools video that impresses me. L8 does that now by dragging audio regions right in the arrange window and it's sample accurate. You can even choose among Al-Gore-ithms (how do you spell that word?)

 

What impressed me in the video is the ability to grab, say, a single drum hit across four audio tracks and slide it around. How do you do this in Logic Pro? Apple loops won't even save you there.

[ben parsons]

i spelled it incorrectly in my post. but i do think "algorythm" is better in this context!

 

algorithm

noun

a process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations, esp. by a computer : a basic algorithm for division.

[AllyMusicGirl]

Viva la Analogue!

[ben parsons]

i guess you're using the "reel to reel" versions of Logic and Reason, ally?

[Rufuss Sewell]

Elastic time is what I've been waiting for! I've kept up with both Logic and Pro Tools for several years. But I always prefer Logic. I have a feeling 7.4 will bring me over to Pro Tools at least for tracking and editing.

[Morerecords]

3000, what makes a producer? I am a musician. I see you have an arsenal of plug ins/presets... what ARE you talking about?

 

for those that asked how, I wouldn't be able to do a demo as requested for a few days butI don't think it's needed:

change logics tempo to 10bpm and audition an apple loop. you can also just grab a segment of audio and make it as long as you like using the bar indicators of your song's destinations/desired tempo.

 

For example, I write my dance music at around 30bpm. Why not? I just work at a different resolution, it sort of forces that glitchy stuff..

 

"algorhythm" was a joke, a terrible terrible joke. sorry for that one.

-MR

[Beer Moth]

i guess you're using the "reel to reel" versions of Logic and Reason, ally?

If only!

 

Which would you rather have?

An analogue steering wheel or a digital one?

 

I could have used a much less family friendly analogy,but decided against...

[nikkik]

OK, you are missing the full feature set of Elastic Time/Elastic Audio. TCE in PT would stretch or shrink, and you could use a couple other Digi algo's, and also from 3rd party ones. None were great IMO (and many others' opinions ), but for certain tasks you could get away with it.

 

Now- The new feature set in 7.4 is MUCH more. Imagine Beat Detective, to the 2nd power. But, instead of having to chop audio to bits to work with it ala BD, you simply "slide" and manipulate segments...without cutting anything. The full details have not been released yet, but if you watch the vid closely, you can catch a good deal of it. Acid and others have been doing the "adaptive tempo for clip preview in browser" thing. PT played catch on that. Basic elastic audio has been done as well, and once again they play catch up. But, the extent to which you can manipulate audio via hitpoints is amazing...and, it is what sets it apart, big time. No other app has it to that extent, and if you do "correctional editing" for extra cash, it should be a HUGE blessing. Sure- bitch and scream to get a real drummer. But, if that crappyass band would rather pay someone to "fix" their crap...well, why not?

 

It truly is much deeper than Logic currently features. And Logic has it's wicked strong points.

[Radley]

The full details have not been released yet, but if you watch the vid closely, you can catch a good deal of it. Acid and others have been doing the "adaptive tempo for clip preview in browser" thing. PT played catch on that. Basic elastic audio has been done as well, and once again they play catch up. But, the extent to which you can manipulate audio via hitpoints is amazing...and, it is what sets it apart, big time. No other app has it to that extent, and if you do "correctional editing" for extra cash, it should be a HUGE blessing. Sure- bitch and scream to get a real drummer. But, if that crappyass band would rather pay someone to "fix" their crap...well, why not?

 

It truly is much deeper than Logic currently features. And Logic has it's wicked strong points.

 

Well said - this truly is something new with "gobs" of potential.