camillo jr Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Good to hear about the RME compatibility - do you simply alternate which one feeds your mains? Or do you run one into the other? As for using my G4, the idea is to basically use PT as a sort of external sample editor - I'm not going to be doing productions in there, just importing a bit of audio and fixing up the timing. But as Nikki points out, I might be able to do the same thing with Ableton with the added plus of Rewiring it to Logic. But I wonder if the audio quality of PTs warping is better than Live's? I've read a few a critical comments on the quality of Live's warping on an audio file... I have no idea if that's true. I have potential thorn with the Mbox scenario. I have a limited number of USB ports, two on the screen for a couple of dongles and two on the back of the tower. The tower (Leaf blower vintage) is in a closet so I need to use USB extension cords (6ft) to get to those ports. On the tower's ports, one gets used for my controler keyboard and the other I have the 6 ft usb cable with a passive USB hub at the end. A guy at a store just told me I might have problems running an Mbox from a hub, anyone here doing that? I could move the two dongles in my screen over to the hub to free those up but the screen itself is a sort of USB hub, is it not? So close, yet so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicianista Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Does it not worry anyone that the Elastic video is drowning in crowd noise? Some of Phil's playbacks are way out of sync with the waveforms on the screen, yet his voice isn't? I love the concept of the control over tempo/groove etc, but I would like to hear things solo'd before I go crazy. Like some others here, it doesn't seem like a new idea to me at all. Just a new feature for Pro Tools that will hopefully work as promised and not frustrate the bejesus out me. I am looking forward to upgrading Pro Tools (as usual) because it has been a clunky pain in the ass through it's evolution and has needed every upgrade it has had, but I'm very cautious about fixing something that ain't broke in a commercial studio. I enjoy using PT7 for audio post and if the Elastic thingy lives up to the hype, then woohoo!! I don't begrudge Logic for not having it, though. When I started using Notator on an Atari, eMagic gave me the highest resolution midi sequencer bar none with the greatest feel. Pro Tools was an audio only environment with it's DAE causing no end of grief. When Logic Audio was born it added audio to what I have always thought of as an arranging tool... midi sequencing. I still find Logic, especially LS8 to be a wonderful arranging tool, but once the arrangement is complete and the journey to the end product begins, producers and engineers have always used anything to bring a song to it's conclusion. I don't think one piece of software will ever be the answer on it's own. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwilliam Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Good to hear about the RME compatibility - do you simply alternate which one feeds your mains? Or do you run one into the other?... I have potential thorn with the Mbox scenario. I have a limited number of USB ports, two on the screen for a couple of dongles and two on the back of the tower. ... I could move the two dongles in my screen over to the hub to free those up but the screen itself is a sort of USB hub, is it not? So close, yet so far! The RME uses the ADAT i/o of the 002R. Works perfectly with LP8. I just have to change the default i/o in LP8 to outputs 9-10 instead of 1-2. Even if elastic audio isn't any better than Live's version of the same, I won't be able to give up PT until Logic comes up with a Beat Detective equivalent. I fix everything from drum grooves to bass guitar to acoustic and electric guitar parts with BD. I haven't really used EA yet, but am about to in the current song I'm working on. I just played around with EA when I first upgraded and it seemed pretty cool to me. It worked fantastically with just about any wav or aif loop I threw at it: instantly conforming to the song tempo. I have a 6-port active USB hub with my iLOK, old xskey, and one or two other USB devices on it. I even run a backup drive on USB 2.0 through the hub. I wouldn't try running any kind of real-time audio through a USB hub (active or passive), but you should be able to move other stuff like your keyboard and mouse onto one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkik Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Does it not worry anyone that the Elastic video is drowning in crowd noise? Check the Digidesign main site, and look at the 7.4 page. Or, find Digi TV. New 7.4 vids are up now, no crowd noise Phil does a good job (IMO). There are more vids still to come evidently, including the one some are asking for, the drum one. IMO, I still think it is a cool tool. Dismiss it if you want. (tho I am not fond of 7.4 overall, and personally do not have much use for Elastic Time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordadrian Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Just spent most of the day playing with elastic time.. tried to quantize drums with it, even using a complicated procedure I found on the digi forum, it still sounded like duke.. lots of flamming, etc.. then I tried to use it on a beautifully recorded yet not-so-perfectly-in-time grand piano.. no matter where I seemed to put the settings, it ended up being quite garbled sounding, at least when solo'd... So, to me, not my thing. Perhaps for a remixer or someone that uses loops (like the digi demo) this would be a great feature.. but not my thing. It ended up working on a tambo track in the same session.. But.. beat detective is still where it's at for drum editing. Why can't logic implement something like that? The marquee transient thing is cool, but excruciatingly slow across 12 tracks of drums, and there's no way to slice all the tracks in the edit group my marquee position, is there? Besides, when you are using the marquee on edit grouped tracks it finds every tiny transient.. 5 minutes later.. makes this useless, to me.. Strip silence is cool, but why can't we make the cuts across the edit group? Why must it be one track only? And it's a mouse click and 3 key commands for every drum hit if you want to move the playhead to the start of a region and make that cut down all your drum tracks. You have to use a folder, because you can't move the playhead to the start of a region if you are using edit groups, as it goes to the start of the first un-strip-silenced region (if this makes any sense). And finally, if you finally manage to get all of your tracks chopped up together by transients, YOU CAN'T GET EXTENDED REGION PARAMETERS IN THE EVENT LIST!! ??!! WTF!! Do I *REALLY* want to quantize my drums with 100% strength? Sorry if I'm ranting.. I just had a very frustrating time trying to figure out the best way to do this in logic.. so far my best answer is.. don't. Just do it in beat detective and fly it back into logic. Does somebody have a way to do this that makes sense that I just haven't figured out yet? I really hope someone has.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radley Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Well, I must say that this looks like a perfect opportunity for Apple to "seize the moment" - if they could implement a similar "Elastic Time" feature that sounds a bit more natural along with a multitrack Beat Detective, they would literally "have it all", and immediately become the undisputed leader in the Pro DAW field. ~Rad~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Pro Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Well, I must say that this looks like a perfect opportunity for Apple to "seize the moment" - if they could implement a similar "Elastic Time" feature that sounds a bit more natural along with a multitrack Beat Detective, they would literally "have it all", and immediately become the undisputed leader in the Pro DAW field. ~Rad~ I just did a session today in Pro Tools 7.4, i was going crazy, i had to record a live punk band, no way this elastic stuff gonna cut it for me until its realy intergrated into the sequence window aka arrange window,. went back to logic, we could not stand around all day listening to the bounces so logic saved the day. i also just installed Tiger for all this nonsense with Elastic to try it and i have more problems now thanks to Leopard even though i formated my drive so many times, geeze.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montydj Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 LMAO! Logic can do this just use Soundtrack Loop Utility changing your audio file to a garage band file there ya go Logic is ahead there allready can't believe some of you did'nt know this allready,i don't use this anyways as i chop all my loops up and put them in EXS {everysingle loop} i have total control then in every possible way nce try tho.... I think you can change the file directly in Logic as well to a garage band file! but i have no interest in this.... I chop a loop in Recyle keep the midi file that comes with it and takes me like 20 seconds if the loop is a little bigger etc then probaly another 20 secs then i can rearange the loop takes things out i don't want like the kickdrum or whatever and also i can do nice eidts in logic as the loops is in EXS now and more possibility so i think Elastic = Lazy! really! Why don't you convert all your sample library to garage band! then all your samples would be elastic and are ready straight away without analyzing so this would be faster than Pro Tools! but i woud'nt as like i said i chop everything up so know matter what tempo it's stays in time anyway but more natural! It ain't no big deal...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Well, I must say that this looks like a perfect opportunity for Apple to "seize the moment" - if they could implement a similar "Elastic Time" feature that sounds a bit more natural along with a multitrack Beat Detective, they would literally "have it all", and immediately become the undisputed leader in the Pro DAW field. ~Rad~ Yeah, and it should be available for free... Time stretching is always going to sound like time stretching... If you know how to use it, you can get away with small adjustments. But it's not the blanket answer for audio editing, IMHO. Even Beat Detective, automatic as it is, requires a bit of knowledge and 'touch' if you want it to sound natural. Same thing with tuning, replacers, vocal aligning... These things are all compromises for poor performance, and will never be any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Pro Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 LMAO! Logic can do this just use Soundtrack Loop Utility changing your audio file to a garage band______. i think Elastic = Lazy! really! Why don't you convert all your sample library to garage band! then all your samples would be elastic and are ready straight away without analyzing so this would be faster than Pro Tools! but i woud'nt as like i said i chop everything up so know matter what tempo it's stays in time anyway but more natural! It ain't no big deal...... I think you mean the Apple loops utility to make loops readable by garageband, logic and soundtrack, or did i miss something? Pro tools does have good editing, tracking and plug ins on a pro level that blow logic out of the water when it comes to recording real situations live and editing accurately, but there is one real hole, there sequencer sux, cuz the way it works is like looking at multi track 2 inch tape strips., you get confused between bugs and functions with midi as well. Logic gets your music done, edited and even finals. Live for example is a great re-mixing tool, but forget editing or even creating loops, its tedious., your better of making hem all before your import them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montydj Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Take one of your loops {or whatever} open it with the {SOUNDTRACK LOOP UTILITY} program and you can even adjust the transients then convert it put the new file in Logic then it will follow tempo!...... http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7185/78soundtrackeditorsav0.jpg This is just a normal loop i converted it in {SOUNDTRACK LOOP UTILITY} i start it at 120bpm then i slowed the tempo down to 70bpm then up to 250bpm then back down to 120bpm.. http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=A4B921C1534DC07B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Pro Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Take one of your loops {or whatever} open it with the {SOUNDTRACK LOOP UTILITY} program and you can even adjust the transients then convert it put the new file in Logic then it will follow tempo!...... http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7185/78soundtrackeditorsav0.jpg This is just a normal loop i converted it in {SOUNDTRACK LOOP UTILITY} i start it at 120bpm then i slowed the tempo down to 70bpm then up to 250bpm then back down to 120bpm.. http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=A4B921C1534DC07B Like i said, i know about this. Elastic thing in PT is a joke if you ask me., especially for the prices of there hardware and all the trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montydj Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ok! to the people who did'nt know as i am sure everyone does not know about this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Pro Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ok! to the people who did'nt know as i am sure everyone does not know about this!oh don't get me wrong, its great you posted a picture, i support that. people in Pro Tools land obviously DO NOT know unless they use logic, im just sick of going back and forth and back and forth, dizzy, why cant they get together and make one user definable application.... money does it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akai01 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 where is the SOUNDTRACK LOOP UTILITY ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 where is the SOUNDTRACK LOOP UTILITY ? I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... LOL It's now called the Apple Loops Utility, it's in the Audio tab of the Arrange window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gungamaya Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 elastic is the most boring thing i've seen in a while .. boooring! big deal, the only way they are/can get over the horrid artifacts from "looped" beats and music slowing down is pitching down? thats gay, how thats gonna make me write better songs?? well it isnt at all! is everyone gonna write songs with down tuned dodgy sounding beats? I dont think so good work digi design! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBop Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 This is the kind of stuff that we all benefit from. One app does it, another refines it and makes it popular, and next all the similar apps start having to add the feature. In the end all of us consumers win. Also I go to ProTools groups and they ask Digi' people for more Logic like MIDI tools. So each side want something from the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
route-electrique Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 This changes nothing; good music is played by real musicians - not edited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I can say, with some authority after having tried it in various applications... It doesn't work very well, at least for the stuff I've tried it for. It destroyed the phase relationships when I tried it on drums, let alone the artifacts on any cymbal decays, etc. The fluttery artifacts make it unusable for bass or vocals (the other places I have tried to use it). I guess it would be OK for dropping in a background loop, in the sense that it allows you to add 'metadata' same as the Apple Loops Utility does... But, as others have said, it's no substitue for good playing or well executed hand editing (which in itself is no substitute for good playing, but is a very valuable skill). AFA TC/E work, I still haven't heard anything that can hold a candle to Ableton's Live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Yeah, no other software can make a simple loop into something else. Out of all software i got, pro tools is easily the worst for that. Even FL studio with its newly updated slicer does that way better. Pro Tools was a industry standard 2000's tape machine, basically. It's great for some stuff but definently slipped out of the race a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Whoa. I just noticed that almost 20k people have viewed this topic. Do you think that Apple is taking note? Don't get me wrong ... I am all about using the tools that we have at our disposal, but I think this is a message which is loud and clear - people are interested in this (IMHO) Logic rules. Logic for President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I gotta tell ya....I really LIKE Elastic Audio in PT, for the simple things I use it for...cleaning up a bass/guitar part that I played...I still suck, but I can at least get a part in..and EA does a fine job of tightening it up. All I use is a mBox 2 Pro for my PTools stuff (with DV Toolkit)..so I don't have a lot of $$ invested in PT...works just fine. converting the part to an apple loop is fine..but then your stuck with all the crap you CAN'T do with an AL (fades, etc...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Pro Tools was a industry standard 2000's tape machine, basically. It's great for some stuff but definently slipped out of the race a few years back. Depends what race you're in, really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Pro Tools was a industry standard 2000's tape machine, basically. It's great for some stuff but definently slipped out of the race a few years back. Depends what race you're in, really... As i specified, any race that requires something else than a computerized tape recorder, basically. Granted, i like pro tools and use it with my digi003 pretty much every day for recording purposes, but out of the different daw's i use it's definently the one i could live without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 This changes nothing; good music is played by real musicians - not edited. Damn. The very fine CD that I just edited the crap out of (any way you wanna look at that!) was played by real musicians. They are going to be pissed when they find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben amato Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 i'm also a long time cubase guy, and when i took the plunge to logic i kind of assumed they would be up to speed with this by now... jeez it's been about 3 or maybe 4 years that i've been stretching away in cubase. here;s hoping that apple will make it happen, cos i really enjoy logic. The synth and plugs are awesome. by the way tho, what's with the playback dropout when i press record while it's playing? annoying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kouly Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hold tight. Apple is not stupid. Leopard is out. We need an update anyway. My guess is that we will soon see some elastic audio features very similar to the new Pro Tools packaged with some graphical pitch correction in the arrange window. If I were in marketing for Apple I would wait for Digi to release 7.whatever and let them do my elastic audio marketing for me, let the buzz get out, let everybody get excited and want it . . . and then bang! - release an update for Logic, a paid update, that's got it all. I would almost bet on this. And I'd bet that You would win this bet. It shouldn't be too long, I hear rumblings in the distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elektrovert Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 This changes nothing; good music is played by real musicians - not edited. meh... you don't have to play music to make it. that doesnt mean you need to sample other peoples stuff either though. good musicianship is great, but you don't need to be able to play to write good music. fixing audio with this is a bad idea I agree, but I think it has masses of potential as a creative tool too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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