Want Traditional Two Clef Printout for Piano from Score Editor (newbie)

[acspits]

Hi there, I'm working in Score editor for the first time.  So forgive this probably extremely basic question.

I'm trying to create sheet music for band's keyboard player, who is a traditional piano player (and so wants to see traditional piano-style sheet music with stable double clefs).  I have played all of the music exactly like I want it, and it is all assigned to the correct clef.  BUT... when I print it (and even within the score editor), instead of giving me a traditional piano book double clef - where the treble clef is always on top and the bass clef is always on the bottom (what I want) - the top row changes back and forth; i.e., if there is only bass clef notes happening, it is putting that in the TOP row.  (Example attached.)

I want to just have an entire score for the song that always has treble clef on top and bass clef on bottom (even when the only stuff happening is in the bass clef).  

I've gone down a bunch of rabbit holes on other threads and YouTube videos but I can't seem to figure out how to do this most basic setting. 

Thanks in advance!

Wave Bye Keys Score.pdf

[Atlas007]

It’s hard to tell how you proceeded to achieve such a result. Perhaps posting your project here it would be easier to target the problem.

At first glance, I would guess that the issue is probably due to improper use of Staff Style.

[acspits]

Thanks for the response!  The project is too big to send but attached is a screen shot of the Staff Styles.  

fyi, I only figured out how to even find the settings for Styles while I was trying to fix this problem (like I said, I'm brand new at this and a long-time ProTools user trying to get used to Logic), so I definitely didn't purposefully change any Staff Style (though maybe did it inadvertently).   

 

Image 3-22-23 at 7.06 PM.heic

[acspits]

And maybe this helps.  It's the "Clefs and Signatures" page though I don't see anything here that should address the issue.  

 

Image 3-22-23 at 7.12 PM.heic

[David Nahmani]

The best way to attach images here, is to press Command-Shift-4 and drag around the area you want to capture. 

[acspits]

Thanks, David.  Here is a shot of the basic session with the score editor engaged.  You can see that the bass clef is on top with another bass clef below (?!?)

And here are the Staff Styles

And here are the Clefs & Signatures settings. 

[Plowman]

You do have a learning curve ahead of you. 

I can tell you this (as Atlas correctly suggested above): the incorrect displays line up with the region length, which likely means that each region somehow has a different style attached to it. Or possibly in your search to fix it, you added independent clef signs. 

Okay: the two regions from bar 5 to 12 are a single staff bass. The region from 13 to 17 is stock piano style with the split point at C4. The region from 17 to 19 ( and there the picture of Main > Tracks cuts off ) appears to be a two-stave style with the bass clef strangely appearing in the top staff. (Did you drag it there? Either that, or you're created a Staff Style with bass up top.) If bar 20 is the same staff style, you dragged a treble +8 clef into the score... or you created a two-stave Staff Style and put Treble +8 in the top staff.

If you're willing, delete everything in the file but the regions in question ( certainly delete the audio file ), and nuke all expendable data. The Logic file shouldn't be too big to post. If you don't want to, no problem, but it's the only way you'll get the best answer. 

I'd be equally lost if I started scoring in Pro Tools.

[volovicg]

You have two different staff style in use for the regions in your project. Upload your project here and I will do a video to show you how to correct it ?

[acspits]

Thanks all!  Struggling to get the session small enough to attach it.  Deleted everything but the track at issue and still 7.5MB and won't attach.  Still working on it. 

But here is the Staff Styles from 17-19, the first place where it does weird stuff.  I don't see anything different. 

[acspits]

Okay I just saw something weird.  I think you guys are going to be able to solve it with this.  Here is what the full score looks like at 17-19:  Just the bass clef on top with another empty bass clef below.  

BUT...  if I isolate ONLY 17-19 then look what pops up:

What the heck is that bottom line doing there?!  It doesn't show up on the composite score. 

And even if I create a new track and move the region there (the one reflected on the top bass clef) down to the new track, there is nothing "behind" it, so it's not like there's some fantom stuff happening behind my track.   But that has to be what's going on, right?  Some kind of phantom other notes that are in "back" of what is being displayed. 

(That would make sense since: (a) I'm a guitar player not a keyboard player so it takes me multiple takes to get stuff right on keys; and (b) I'm used to ProTools which automatically overwrites when you record over something so I often forget to delete before I record over a bad take.)

Still begs the question of how to fix....

 

[scg]

47 minutes ago, acspits said:

I'm used to ProTools which automatically overwrites when you record over something so I often forget to delete before I record over a bad take.)

This is unrelated to your primary issue, but Logic is configurable in this regard. Check out the 'replace' button in the control bar (you may have to customize the control bar to see it), and also its drop-down menu.

[volovicg]

You may have multi overlapping regions......  

1/ do a save a copy as and give it a name.

2/ from finder select the logic file and right click and do a compress on the logic project. 

3/ upload that zipped/compressed file here. 

4/ if it still won't upload - delete the audio track in and the associated audio files in the audio browser before saving.

[acspits]

Thanks, guys.  Sorry for the delay.  Real life ate me for a few days.  

My frustration level is at 100%.  volovicg, I really appreciate the step by step, but I've followed it all, and had to go to step 4, and did it right, and there are now absolutely no audio files in this session at all; they're all deleted.  It's solely the midi track.  I've deleted everything else.  And yet even when I compress the session it's still 6.8MB and won't attach.  I really don't know what's going on.  

[acspits]

Wait, all is not lost.  Apparently I had to save as a new file after deleting those old audio files.  Here is the session.  Any help very much appreciated!!!Wave Bye Keys Alternate3.logicWave Bye Keys Alternate3.logicx

Wave Bye Keys Alternate3.logicx.zip

[Plowman]

Is this closer to what you want? 

The extra "ghost staff" under the initial single bass clef was due to the "Fill Gaps" setting in Score > Layout > Global Format. 

I put in 8va symbols per region except for the last region. There I created a piano staff with the Treble 8va in the Staff Style.

The notes in the Piano staff are split here according to pitch. If they do not fall correctly, we can show you how to change them. But it may (and should for educational purposes) involve polyphonic staff style.

Yeah, John Lennon is quoted as saying "Life is what happens while you're making other plans."  

Wave Bye Keys Alternate3 2.0.logicx

[acspits]

Thank you very much!  Any idea why the file you sent back isn't opening?  It's clearly a Logic Pro Project but when I try to open it (even after downloading and moving it to my desktop) it still says "The file couldn’t be opened because it isn’t in the correct format.  The file might be corrupted, truncated, or in an unexpected format."

Can you please try re-uploading it here?

[Plowman]

Okay, we'll have to bring in David on this. I could not open what I posted either (I had not thought to double-check it when I posted).

I started a new file, copied the regions and tidied up the screenset for Score display. But I'm still getting the error message you got. I see what I originally posted had 5 downloads. I wonder if any of theirs worked. 

To be clear, this new 3.0 file attached below isn't working for me either. 

Wave Bye Keys Alternate3 3.0 resend.logicx

Edited March 26, 2023 by Plowman

[acspits]

Okay, no worries.  Thanks so much for all of your work on this.  We'll get there.  

(Parenthetically, seems weird that there isn't a simple setting where it creates a full double-clef score with treble always on top and bass always on bottom, no matter what is happening at any given time in the score.  You'd think that would be at least one of the very basic default templates.  My keyboard player can't be the only one who wants it that way as a default.)

[Plowman]

Yes, we will get there. I'm puzzled why the simplest, smallest Logic file reads as corrupted. 

If a completely new, un-templated Logic file is open and a single region is recorded, Logic does its best to figure out the region's best clef. Play low, a single staff bass appears. High, and a treble appears. Play high and low, and a piano double staff is assigned. 

I encourage you, the next time you record a piano part, to immediately set the track's default score in the Main inspector to "Piano." Everything you recorded thereafter will be assigned to the piano score. 

Then Logic splits which notes go up to treble clef or down to bass clef based on a split point (or things get a bit more involved with a polyphonic score).

Oddly or coincidentally, your regions seemed to split at C4, which is Logic's default.

Somewhere, something wrong was done, and then -- as is the commonest experience in learning a new program -- efforts to make it "righter" made it "wronger," and frustration ensued. That describes much of my computing life. 

The only thing I did to the file (aside from the 8va sign) was return the regions to the defaults and turn off "Fill Gaps." 

 

This'll be a breeze to you in no time.   

Edited March 27, 2023 by Plowman
correction

[acspits]

Thanks.  Yeah, I've made it through 9 of the 15 songs in our band's reunion show set and this is the only keyboard score that is doing this, so something must have gotten screwy in this file in particular.  Maybe the right answer is just to start over on this tune. 

In any event, I appreciate your (and others') time and effort; and at minimum I've learned a bunch about the scoring function in Logic.  (My appreciation for Logic as opposed to my decades-long understanding of ProTools is still a work in progress, but at least I "get it" a little more now.  Though "logic" does not seem a great name for it imho.  lol)

[Plowman]

Cool. I'm glad you made headway with the other songs. 

I admire your willingness to continue in Logic. Sometimes the frustration is so imprinted on our souls, we cannot help but associate a program with our misery and walk away. 

Hey, I mis-spoke about Logic defaulting to Piano score. You can read my correction above if you like. 

I hope the reunion show goes well. 

[acspits]

Thanks.  I'm not seeing the correction in your post above.  And I'm definitely running into the same thing after opening new sessions with the default settings.  Very weird.  Again, just seems bizarre that there isn't a single click button that results in all the bass cleft stuff staying on the bottom of a locked-in two cleft chart.  Weird.  

[volovicg]

I did not read this whole thread. Here is your project with all parts using a grand staff with notes assigned to a staff based on the split point of middle C.  If this is not what you ware looking for you can change the split point or use a polyphonic staff style. Let me know how close this is to what you want.  You had a lot of gaps between regions ( not sure that is what you intended) - multiple regions ( which is fine) but I made it all one.  If the notes are not on the staff you want and you want assistance with that. Just denote which notes by measure number go on to which staff and be happy to help you with this. I think plowman has you covered - just offering up my two cents in case it help.

GSV-Wave Bye Keys Alternate3.logicx.zip

[acspits]

This is great.  Thank you very much!