Tightness of samples triggered by MIDI notes

[Sunset]

Dear Forum,

 

You see a quantized MIDI PNO Track of Yamaha Grand Piano and its Bounce-in-place. The transients you see in the Audio are not on spot.

Where to look also for unintended humanization functionality processed etc.

Is it the instrument. Maybe there are hidden features to switch back or so...

THX!

BX

[polanoid]

Obviously the software instrument's sound you're using on that track has a short attack phase until it reaches its peak. The lower notes also seem to have a short phase of silence at the start. Is "Yamaha Grand Piano" the name of the (presumably a Logic factory) patch you're using here?

[polanoid]

1 hour ago, Byhxx said:

how to workaround that?

I've just checked and the Yamaha Grand Piano indeed has that delay for the lower keys. May be intentional, I don't know enough about the physics of a real Grand Piano to evaluate that.

So, the workaround would be: Don't use the Yamaha Grand Piano instrument.

If you want to verify Logic's "tightness", bounce a Klopfgeist instrument and see where the transients end up there (spoiler: They're exactly at the start of every MIDI note)

Edited November 5, 2023 by polanoid

[Atlas007]

Since MIDI event and audio are different things, how about quantizing audio instead?

[Sunset]

Ah, okay.

Assumed the note is played on immediate MIDI trigger...

[polanoid]

9 hours ago, Byhxx said:

Assumed the note is played on immediate MIDI trigger...

Well it is of course, but playing a note does not necessarily mean that the peak level is right at the start of the note. Thats up to the Software Instrument and its current settings.

[David Nahmani]

9 hours ago, Byhxx said:

Ah, okay.

Assumed the note is played on immediate MIDI trigger...

With a sampler, the MIDI note triggers a sample. If the sample starts for example with 3ms of silence (or weak attack build-up), then the attack of the sound, then that's what the MIDI note triggers: 3ms of silence, then the attack of the sound. 

Here's an example of a low note sample in the Yamaha Grand Piano sampler instrument in Logic Pro, where you can see the delay @polanoid mentioned:

[Sunset]

THX everybody!!

What Piano Sound in LPX corresponds to MIDI attacks?

[David Nahmani]

8 hours ago, Byhxx said:

What Piano Sound in LPX corresponds to MIDI attacks?

Most acoustic piano samples have a slow build-up attack for low note samples. In Logic Pro, the tightest one is probably the instrument "Grand Piano" that you can access as a Sampler setting (insert Sampler first, then find Grand Piano in the settings pop-up menu at the top of the plug-in header). 

Or if you really need a tighter sound then consider saving a copy of your preferred piano, and zone by zone, move the sample start closer to the peak of the attack: 

[Sunset]

Thanks for your help!!

I tested some of my PNO libs. I would say Noire (Native Instruments) is pretty tight and reacts on the MIDI trigger better than the Yamaha in LPX, will check the others over time.

My main focus is that - if even possible - audio should not alter the MIDI groove too much from scratch.

I can understand the idea of a delay to the action of a real piano, but it is a pretty delay , I would say

THX

Best

BX