Mastering. What do you guys put on the Stereo Out?

[globet]

Logic 10.8 has a new Mastering Plugin, but if you don't use it, which plugins would you put on the Stereo Out channel strip for Mastering? 

This is what I used: Channel EQ for the low end, some Gain, some Compression and an Adaptive Limiter to prevent going over.


It's certainly room for a lot of improvements. Any tips?

[Scriabin rocks]

I am probably the least knowledgeable person on the planet, so take it with a shovel of salt, personally, I would always have a linear phase EQ on the mastering channel, and a metering tool.

Quote

Linear Phase EQ uses a different underlying technology to Channel EQ that preserves the phase of the audio signal. 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Scriabin rocks

[Zipfunk]

Whatever is on your stereo out probably changes with the project.
 

If I use a lot of orchestral samples they are usually so prepped coming out of the box that I use very little compression and no eq. 

 

if I’m recording a live band I definitely have an eq in heavy use and a compressor/ limiter doing a lot of work as well. 

[David Nahmani]

EQ (not necessarily linear phase) or Match EQ, Compressor, Adaptive Limiter, and metering plug-ins like Level Meter, Loudness Meter, Correlation Meter and/or Multimeter. 

 

[JakobP]

Just a reflection, but if you feel you need to cut your mix with a steep low cut filter at 100hz to get it balanced, then you have lows in your mix that needs treatment before stereo out, imo...

[matthewbarnhart]

Mastering engineer here.

What you're talking about is not mastering, it's mix buss processing.

If I only had Logic tools to use for actual mastering, it would be the Channel EQ and the Adaptive Limiter, and maybe the Compressor at a very low ratio and slow attack/release settings. Anything else I would use would be determined by specific problems that are present in the mix.

If you're doing extreme stuff on your stereo mix (100 Hz HPF? 4:1 compression w/ <1ms attack?) then I would suggest fixing those problems in the mix.

Linear Phase EQ is inappropriate for mastering except in a few very specific circumstances. It isn't "higher quality" than the regular channel EQ.

[Zipfunk]

41 minutes ago, matthewbarnhart said:

If you're doing extreme stuff on your stereo mix (100 Hz HPF? 4:1 compression w/ <1ms attack?) then I would suggest fixing those problems in the mix.

👍

[Scriabin rocks]

Thanks folks for correcting me in being mistaken that the linear would be a must on the steroids bus...umm stereo bus. 😂

[loukash]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:16 AM, globet said:

which plugins would you put on the Stereo Out channel strip for Mastering? 

Not much: aside from a "safety limiter" only metering stuff.
I do the actual mastering on a bus first.
Which makes the new Mastering plugin somewhat … useless for me. I may eventually need to rethink my workflow.

[globet]

13 hours ago, loukash said:

I do the actual mastering on a bus first.

Mastering on a bus first? Like every bus you create with sends?
 

Thanks @loukash 

[Holger Lagerfeldt]

The Stereo Out in that case is only for metering and receiving unprocessed reference tracks.

Any track(s) for master processing are first routed to an aux (=bus, here). Master processing takes place on the aux. The aux is then routed to the Stereo Out.

This gives you more flexibility, such as being able to have reference tracks going unprocssed to the Stereo Out for monitoring, separate dither, post metering, master automation fades that don't affect the Stereo Out, etc.

As for the original question, here are some of my favorite plug-ins for mastering:

Bifrost Master HPF
Bifrost Mastering Soft Clipper
Fabfilter Pro-Q 3
Fabfilter Pro-MB
Ozone Advanced Maximizer
TC Electronic MD4 HD
TDR Infrasonic
TDR Ultrasonic
TDR Prism Analyzer
Tone Projects Basslane Pro
Tone Projects Kelvin
Tone Projects Michelangelo
Tone Projects Unisum

Izotope RX Advanced standalone for spectral repair, etc.

As for analog hardware, I use Maselec Master Series MEA-2 EQ, Dangerous Music BAX EQ, Summit Audio Neve EQ-200, Analog Design Black Box HG-2 tube saturator, Crane Song STC-8/M compressor, Foote Control Systems P3S ME compressor, and a pair of Dave Hill Titan compressors.

[Scriabin rocks]

  🫣 Good Lord Holger.

*mumbles, No Glenfarclas, but Cranesong and Titan Compressors, ts ts ts* 🤭

[Holger Lagerfeldt]

Enough with the whisky already, haha

 

[David Nahmani]

5 minutes ago, Scriabin rocks said:

No Glenfarclas

Don't get Holger started. You haven't seen his cellar! 😄

[loukash]

5 hours ago, globet said:

Mastering on a bus first?

Yes

5 hours ago, globet said:

Like every bus you create with sends?

No, the track outputs go to a bus.

3 hours ago, Holger Lagerfeldt said:

The Stereo Out in that case is only for metering and receiving unprocessed reference tracks.

Any track(s) for master processing are first routed to an aux (=bus, here). Master processing takes place on the aux. The aux is then routed to the Stereo Out.

This gives you more flexibility, such as being able to have reference tracks going unprocssed to the Stereo Out for monitoring, separate dither, post metering, master automation fades that don't affect the Stereo Out, etc.

Yes, something it that sense.

In fact, my "actual mastering" workflow (as defined above by @matthewbarnhart) contains three stages:

1) Each song has its own track, lined up sequentially:

—
 —
  —
   —

^ like so.
I've been mastering compilations with individual tracks coming from various genres recorded over several decades, and like this each track can get its own gain, EQ, compression, limiter etc. treatment to better fit sonically into the overall concept of an album. Sometimes I'm even making quite radical changes to the sound of an individual track if it fits the overall sound of the rest.

2) All tracks go to a "submaster" bus with a global EQ, a bit more overall compression, and a gentle soft knee limiter set to -1.0 dBFS. (No "loudness war" at my house!) 

3) As noted, on the main output there's only a "safety limiter" set to -1.0 dBTP, Multimeter and AUNetSend that goes to Zynaptiq Spectre where I have a plethora of meters to have visual control of all possible aspects of the sound. Being a graphic designer by primary profession, I'm quite a "visual" guy. 

As for reference tracks, usually I'm loading them into the Spectre player.

As for plugins, my template has the built-in Gain, DeEsser, Exciter, Multipressor, Compressor and Limiter ready to use. Plus a few free 3rd party plugins like the A1 Stereo Control (mainly for the "Safe Bass"), TDR Nova (to selectively compress potential untaimed frequencies), and just recently I've updated my template with the currently free Ozone 11 EQ to replace the standard LinearEQ, but I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet.
But that doesn't mean I'd actually always use them all.

Sometimes, the 2-track files I'm receiving may benefit from some destructive preprocessing, cleanup and restoration, especially when I worked on reissues of some old Czech underground recordings from the 70s and 80s, originally made on cheap reel tape recorders, which have suffered from tape damage over the decades, resulting in dropouts. Nowadays I'm using iZotope RX 10 Advanced, previously RX 8 Elements, but when I started about a decade ago, I was using a combination of Audiofile Wave Editor, ClickRepair/DeNoise by Brian Davies, Amadeus Pro, and Soundtrack Pro that came with Logic 9 Studio and had a rudimentary spectrogram editor. It was very time consuming – don't ask what my final hourly wage thus was – but it was worth it. :)

Edited December 7, 2023 by loukash

[globet]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:56 PM, Holger Lagerfeldt said:

Any track(s) for master processing are first routed to an aux (=bus, here). Master processing takes place on the aux. The aux is then routed to the Stereo Out.

What do you think of this setup? @Holger Lagerfeldt
 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by globet

[wonshu]

Sometimes a gain plugin (rarely, I try to fix it before it hits the output).

Downmixer 5.1 -> Stereo (probably not much longer... seems like we're going back to stereo and have the dub mixer upmix or do an atmos mix with our stems)

Sometimes a Multimeter.

[Holger Lagerfeldt]

On 12/30/2023 at 7:15 PM, globet said:

What do you think of this setup? @Holger Lagerfeldt
 

 

I'd swap the linear phase EQs for regular minimum phase ones. Linear phase/FIR tend to smear the sound with pre-filter echo. Rarely do they make sense unless you have a particular use for linear phase, such as parallel processing or processing on an already limited file.

Perhaps the Multipressor should go before the full frequency comp(s) as multiband can work well in catching dynamic frequency issues, before hitting the broadband compressor.

Also, I'd get rid of the additional normal limiter in front of the AdLimit, no reason to have two limiters unless e.g. the first is closer to clipping and the second is softer.

[Scriabin rocks]

Looking at the pics and gear-list of your studio, we have a lot in common. 😂 

The same headphones. 

I can not even begin to imagine how Ravel with my favorite Interpret, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, translates in this room.

 

 

Edited January 2 by Scriabin rocks

[globet]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:55 AM, Holger Lagerfeldt said:

I'd swap the linear phase EQs for regular minimum phase ones.

"Regular minimum phase ones" meaning Logic's Channel EQ? How about I just swap out all the stock EQs (Linear and Channel EQ) in Logic with Fabfilter Pro Q 3?
 

On 1/2/2024 at 2:55 AM, Holger Lagerfeldt said:

Perhaps the Multipressor should go before the full frequency comp(s) as multiband can work well in catching dynamic frequency issues, before hitting the broadband compressor.

You meant putting the Multipressor on Aux 14 (MASTERING) before the two Compressors?

Basically keep Stereo Out empty, maybe put some sort of loudness metering?

What I did here is basically all the instruments (keys, guitar, drums, synth) all go to AUX 11, all the effects such as reverb delay chorus goes to FSX AUX 12. AUX 11 and 12 then goes to AUX 13 for a MIXDOWN before AUX 14 MASTERING.

Any suggestions on this setup? 

 

Edited January 3 by globet