higuywhatsthestory Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I have a Bb trumpet part for a song written in the Concert key of E. When I choose the "Trumpet in Bb" Staff Style, the key signature correctly changes to "F#". But I would like to change it to "Gb". Anybody know how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscwilde Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 This should help: https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/logicpro/lgcp8535aab4/mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 I'm familiar with the Staff Styles Editor, but I see no way to choose enharmonic alternatives to the key signature that Logic chooses. For example, I am using the "Trumpet in Bb" style, which moves all the notes up 1 step, but it then makes the key F# (not Gb), and I see no way to change that. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscwilde Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 My bad....I linked the wrong thing....pre-coffee morning brain 😂🥵 In Functions > Note Attributes > Accidentals: https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/logicpro/lgcp853572cd/mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 (edited) I did look at this, and it almost works. The song is in the key of E. I set the Style to "Trumpet in Bb", which moves the notes up a whole step and changes the key to F#. Then I choose "Enharmonic Shift: b". Every note is then labeled explicitly as its flatted equivalent, leaving the key still F#. Edited February 29 by higuywhatsthestory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Plowman Posted February 29 Solution Share Posted February 29 You are correct. This option changes all selected notes. Unfortunately, it will not change the key signature. It will display the six sharps of F# as the key and insert an accidental in every (selected) note (excepting B, I guess). In the words of Sean Connery in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, "Our situation has not improved." The short answer: Logic has no function for this. From there, duct tape and display hijinks ensue. This question does come up now and then. @volovicg may have answered one recently. If the only goal is to print out a part in Gb for the player, here's a highly inelegant way: Track > Show Track Alternatives. Duplicate the region to a track alternative. Set the key of the whole song to Gb. Transpose the region +2 in the Region Inspector. (Now there's no need for a transposed Score Style. You can use Treble.) Print that to the player's part. You'll have a Gb key signature on the page, the print-out will correctly transpose up two steps... and then don't listen to the playback because it'll sound really off. I cannot figure out how to effect this kind of transposition on a conductor's score though. That would need a return to the concert key, most likely. I suggest a Track Alternative so that you can open the modified region, print it out, and then go back to the regular, non-transposed region for further work. Again, Greg may have a better way. Found it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 Wow, looks like I just reopened the can of worms. I don't like any of the suggested approaches. Right now I'm trying exporting the score as MusicXML, then using Sibelius to "fix" it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Ok here is an example in the Key of E with chromatic movement. If this is what you are looking for you - let me know and I will explain how to transpose the staff styles ( not the notes) to achieve this. If not - maybe you could clarify a little better for me with exact examples of what you want the score key signature and notes to look like. Provide a exact correct example (pic) and I will show you how to do it. Let me know... Edited March 2 by volovicg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 @volovicg - That's it. How do you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) So technically - We need to think and separate the "base" key in logic from the key or transposing staff style in the score. So you need it invert your process. make the base/primary key of logic Gb - then using all transposing staff styles - apply those staff styles as needed to your orchestration. I would also enable diatonic insert in the editor mode if you are going to be working across the various staffs concurrently ( more of a preference than requirement ). So if the main key is Gb then your first staff should be assigned a staff style with a transposition of -2 (or +10), and you leave the Bb instrument along. In the attached screen shot - You can see the main key, and the two shaded staff styles with their respective transposition. God I forgot how much I love this stuff 🙂 Edited March 2 by volovicg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Hmmm....So you're suggesting that I change the key of the entire song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) yes - but based on your hmmm response..... I feel you think it is concerning.... anyway totally up to you as to your approach - just providing alternatives and solutions to your questions. Edited March 2 by volovicg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Yeah, I don't love having to change the key of the song. I want the song to be in the key it's supposed to be in. Unless I'm missing something about your proposal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Quote I want the song to be in the key it's supposed to be in. The concert key of the song is no different. Strictly speaking, Logic doesn't know what key any song is in, as Greg's second example shows. The assigned key signature (just like transposed Score Styles) affect only the display. @volovicg is coaxing Logic to give you a six flat display for one instrument and then adjusting all other instruments accordingly. I know this sounds nutty, but we're still in E. The playback is unaltered, as can be verified by Piano Roll and by ear. I empathize with your request: "Hey Logic, just turn these six sharps into six flats and stop with all the rigamarole!" It's a worthy feature request. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 OK thanks, that's helpful. I'll give it a try and see where I land. I do wonder what to do if I have a Bb instrument AND an Eb instrument (which I do - trumpet and bari sax). Speaking as a former software guy, you actually want the code to do the right thing..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, higuywhatsthestory said: OK thanks, that's helpful. I'll give it a try and see where I land. I do wonder what to do if I have a Bb instrument AND an Eb instrument (which I do - trumpet and bari sax). Speaking as a former software guy, you actually want the code to do the right thing..... Again the beautiful thing is each part is independent. If you want to add an Eb part/instrument - just set the transposing staff style to reflect the that key for the new part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 I will have to try this. If I set the key of the song to Gb (for example), then for the Eb instrument will I get a transposed staff style with flats? Otherwise I am back where I started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Quote If I set the key of the song to Gb (for example), then for the Eb instrument will I get a transposed staff style with flats? Yes. If you open a completely new Logic file (not a template), there is a default Score Style marked "Baritone Sax." It transposes the written pitch up 21 steps (an octave plus a major 6). If the Logic song is set to the key of Gb, the Baritone Sax score style will read in Eb (three flats). A Bb trumpet will read in four flats. (Ab being one step higher than Gb). The Tenor Sax will also display in Ab (though it will sound an octave and a whole step lower.) The only possible trouble you may face is a trumpet in A. If Logic is set to the key of Gb, the Trumpet in A Score Style per Logic's default file will transpose to a key signature of three sharps. The alternative is B double flat, a theoretical scale with two double flats. Let us give communal applause to Logic for not going there. Threads like this remind me why I often write in C Score and deal with parts separately. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 Hah. And by "deal with parts separately", what do you mean? And thanks for enlightening me that, given Gb, Logic will transpose the Bb and Eb instruments into keys with flats (haven't tested it). This isn't obvious.... Maybe time for me to stand down. Thanks to you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I will print parts out separately using the track alternative method mentioned above. Applied to the emerging example here, I'd open a track alternative, change the overall key to Gb, duplicate the region and touch up the part as needed, print the part only in Score, then return Logic to the concert key and the initial track alternative. That leaves me with: 1. conductor's score in concert key E 2. EITHER the offending sharps in transposed Score styles OR just keep them in a non-transposing concert key for the conductor's score 3. Parts to the actual players with the correct flats, having printed them out separately. Greg's way addresses the outlier, but all other instruments must be "un-transposed" from the pseudo-key we've entered in Logic. My way in the concert key yields to the majority of instruments, but then I'm left with a conductor's score that's either in C or has those irksome six sharps on the page for a saxophone -- which would be eye-catching, and not in a good way. If I was submitting a score for a professional review, I'd do it Greg's way. In the end, we are left with a real-world request for a feature that alters flat/sharp print out on a per staff basis. Wouldn't it be great to have this checkbox in the Score Style window? This same question will be predictably re-appear at LPH. Good to discuss though -- good to understand what's under the hood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higuywhatsthestory Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 Well much thanks for the thoughtful and detailed reply. I have to say that I don't love any of the proposals, nothing personal. Sadly I suspect this will come up again, and the feature will remain un-implemented..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Music Spirit Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Fascinating thread - this is something I posted about some years back when I had an Arrangement in B but needed the Trumpet and Tenor Parts in Db. If I understand the work around, it involves changing the basic key to the desired Bb looking part and then changing the Concert parts to correct their display of the key of the tune by using the transpose feature in the Staff Styles to display the right key? I will try this out on the Arrangement I first posted about around November 2018 ( for a gig I had on 9 December 2018 ) NB tried to search for the thread to quote it here - question supplementary: how do you look up a list of all your own posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Quote If I understand the work around.... You got it. 👍 Quote ...how do you look up a list of all your own posts? Try clicking on your name, then click "View My Activity." I'm not sure how far back it goes, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 I think this is it. Further proof of the regularity of the request. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Music Spirit Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 @Plowman thanks so much for finding this - 'view my activity' doesnt go that far back... 🙏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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