Official "Did they fix this" in Logic 9 thread!

[marana]

The reason I have this preference turned off is because there were many instances where I inadvertently deleted (or performed unintended key commands on) ALL regions in a currently selected track, not realizing that by simply selecting a track, all of its regions had been selected.

 

But the bigger point is that the general behavior in Mac programs since I've ever used them is that if you have 1 thing selected and you then select another, the first thing gets UN-selected. This should be the behavior regardless of the setting you choose for the Track/Region preference.

 

 

No, the behavior you're referring to below works correctly and is set in Preferences ("Select Regions on Track Selection"). I have this turned off.

 

I'm talking about DE-selecting already-selected regions in the Arrange, which should happen as soon as I click on any track header (or if I click on ANYTHING, for that matter).

 

Currently, already-selected regions do not get unselected (and therefore, will frequently get deleted accidently if, for example, I select an unneeded track to delete it). Clicking anything in the Arrange (including tracks) should deselect already selected regions.

 

OK, so if you have that preference enabled, the behavior is exactly the opposite, meaning no region becomes deselected. That's the expected behavior, and a feature, in fact TONS of people have been requesting that feature in the more distant past when it didn't exist - because they became annoyed at the fact that selecting a track would change their region selection.

 

Definitely not a bug.

[marana]

If you hold down option while opening Piano Roll through the Windows Menu, it does the same thing as double clicking a midi region while holding option: it opens the editor in a "floating" window (ie., a dedicated window) but NOT a Floating Window (where the window always floats on top).

 

This a pain if you simply want to option-click a midi region to simultaneously compare its Piano Roll with the built-in Piano Roll (on the Arrange) of a different midi region (for example, when comparing 2 similar parts).

 

How do you do this simply, quickly?

 

Don't know about CD Text in DDP, but I know I wasted a lot of $ on PMCD a few months ago...

 

Not sure what you refer to exactly, you can still get floating windows in Logic 8? Hold down Option and open a window from a menu: opens it as a floating window.

[ski]

I don't know if anything's changed in L9, but what was strange about L8 is that the event list could be opened as a floating window ("open event list..." key command). Same was true of the automation event list, but not the score or piano roll editors. Their "open ___" commands only produced separate but non-floating windows. I never understood that logic of giving only a specific editor the ability to truly float.

 

Anyway, as I posted above somewhere, holding down OPT is the only way to produce those separate windows in L8 when 2-clicking from the arrange window. Or you can use the key commands. If it's the same in L9, then my suggestion would be to get a program like Quickeys or USBOverdrive and use that to enable you to open a separate window with either a single mouse click.

[David Nahmani]

I don't know if anything's changed in L9, but what was strange about L8 is that the event list could be opened as a floating window ("open event list..." key command). Same was true of the automation event list, but not the score or piano roll editors. Their "open ___" commands only produced separate but non-floating windows. I never understood that logic of giving only a specific editor the ability to truly float.

 

Some windows are float, others are not. It doesn't matter how you open them (key command, Window menu..), and you don't have a choice of floating or not, the windows will just open how they are. Event List, Transform, Transport are always floating window.

[fader8]

I don't know if anything's changed in L9, but what was strange about L8 is that the event list could be opened as a floating window ("open event list..." key command). Same was true of the automation event list, but not the score or piano roll editors. Their "open ___" commands only produced separate but non-floating windows. I never understood that logic of giving only a specific editor the ability to truly float.

 

Some windows are float, others are not. It doesn't matter how you open them (key command, Window menu..), and you don't have a choice of floating or not, the windows will just open how they are. Event List, Transform, Transport are always floating window.

 

With the one exception of the Environment Window. This is the only holdout, AFAIK, that still respects the Option key when opening and gives you a floating window.

[ski]

you don't have a choice of floating or not

 

Precisely, and that's what I find strange, and also troublesome -- that there aren't options to open some windows as floating windows. Seems really odd to present users with such fixed limitations. Totally goes against the idea of users customizing their workflow for different applications, styles, etc.

[MarkX01]

Forgot this one: graphics glitches! I've used Logic for 16 years now and it's always suffered various graphics bugs, but these are some biggies (see attached)...

 

And still we don't get an answer... well, just 1 more day to wait for my upgrade, and then I can finally see for myself if this annoyance has finally been cured. It only happened since L8 for me, on both my old PPC and then a Quad Intel Xeon. So it's hardly a coincidence (Apple Cinema display used on both too).

 

I'll report back in 24 hours if nobody else does.

[whinecellarstudio]

Same here - I think our fellow users are too busy USING Logic 9 to report on it

 

Just got my upgrade this morning, so as soon as I finish my current track I'll jump in and report my findings. It's the least I can do since I asked so many questions in this thread

[rjtemple]

...or you can hold down alt and double click.

 

Oh man. Didn't know about this one. (or I forgot at some early point when I was learning Logic.)

[rjtemple]

I'd like to know if the markers text problem got fixed in Logic 9 ?

The problem is, if you have a lot of text in a Marker, and you forget to hold

the option key when double-clicking the marker to open the text editing

window, Logic8 would auto delete all of the text except the first line and if

the first line was a long line of text, Logic 8 would auto delete most of the line.

 

I'm not sure this is a bug, as this is the part of the way it was designed to work (however questionnable...).

Hereafter an exceirpt from the manual (Logic Studio 8 ) :

I'm double clicking the marker in the global tracks area... when I click the ruler area reserved for markers, it doesn't trigger any marker activity.

 

When I double click the marker, it lets me change the first line (title) of the marker. And it does not erase the rest of my text. If I option double click the marker, then it opens a text box for editing.

 

I don't remember this being a problem in L8, but it looks like it works well in L9.

 

Rich

[rjtemple]

and the ability to double click a midi region and have it open in the midi editor window rather then in the half pane midi editor...

 

This works in logic 8.02 but it is a bit of a workaround. What you do is double click it and it will open the half pane editor, then double click it it again (with the little window pane already open) and it will open it in a new (fullsize) window. a little annoying I know, but really helped me out when I discovered this one.

 

This doesn't work for me... but the alt key modifier works great.

[pieca]

a new one :

 

26- is previewing 44.1 mp3 when importing audio in a 48 song is played at the correct speed now?

[trompetenick]

I'd like to know if the markers text problem got fixed in Logic 9 ?

The problem is, if you have a lot of text in a Marker, and you forget to hold

the option key when double-clicking the marker to open the text editing

window, Logic8 would auto delete all of the text except the first line and if

the first line was a long line of text, Logic 8 would auto delete most of the line.

 

I'm not sure this is a bug, as this is the part of the way it was designed to work (however questionnable...).

Hereafter an exceirpt from the manual (Logic Studio 8 ) :

I'm double clicking the marker in the global tracks area... when I click the ruler area reserved for markers, it doesn't trigger any marker activity.

 

When I double click the marker, it lets me change the first line (title) of the marker. And it does not erase the rest of my text. If I option double click the marker, then it opens a text box for editing.

 

I don't remember this being a problem in L8, but it looks like it works well in L9.

 

Rich

I don't see the problem in L8 either.

There are keycommands to access the marker text-window; so no need to make this mistake a second time, I think.

 

Nick

[nebula]

Did they solve the event list bug when trying to edit the length of multiple notes simultaneously, and the notes are different lengths, holding option and shift while pressing RETURN to enter the numeric value doesn't properly make all values jump to the value entered?

 

Wow, does that make sense? I detailed it here:

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=29429&highlight=

[Glenn L.]

One of the things that I wanted Logic for was to sync it with my Roland VS2000CD, which LE7 did perfectly via MidiClk. LP8, however, can't slave via MidiClk. I tried, to no avail, to use MTC.

 

Will LP9 slave via MidiClk?

[MarkX01]

Same here - I think our fellow users are too busy USING Logic 9 to report on it

 

Just got my upgrade this morning, so as soon as I finish my current track I'll jump in and report my findings. It's the least I can do since I asked so many questions in this thread

 

So far so good - no display / GUI / level meter weirdness!! Phew, that's a relief...

[mdeasy]

Also, do flattened comps retain track names?

 

Please be yes on this one!

[Glenn L.]

One of the things that I wanted Logic for was to sync it with my Roland VS2000CD, which LE7 did perfectly via MidiClk. LP8, however, can't slave via MidiClk. I tried, to no avail, to use MTC.

 

Will LP9 slave via MidiClk?

 

The answer: NOPE!

[emilenitrate]

did we get noteheads back in the arrange?

 

 

I just wanted to weigh in on this. Not everybody prefers the "noteheads" that were replaced in Logic 8 with a one octave approximation of the piano roll matrix, which I vastly prefer. I always found the notes without ledger lines to be useless and the Logic 8/9 approach useful at a glance for the way I want to work. I would propose that the developers make the two displays an optional preference, giving users an opportunity to choose what works best for them. I for one, am glad that it hasn't been "fixed", as I consider it an improvement over Logic 7. If I have to look at notes I want to see them on a ledger with bar lines so they mean something. To each his own. - Emile

[ski]

I would propose that the developers make the two displays an optional preference, giving users an opportunity to choose what works best for them.

 

Thank you.

[emilenitrate]

I have long maintained that programming flexibility into the user interface is a critical key to brilliant software design. You can't have too many options because a developer can't predict exactly how every user will prefer to work. Different strokes, for different folks, and so on and so on and scoobie doobie doo. - Emile

[joelka]

The three most important issues if you ask me were:

 

 

1. Weird clicks or pops when bouncing (towards the beginning of the bounce)

 

2. System Overload error messages

 

3. Latency with the i/o plugin

 

Anyone know if these got fixed?

[robinloops]

 

This doesn't work for me... but the alt key modifier works great.

 

Actually I was looking at it a bit more and it isn't consistent for me either but I love the key modifier option...

 

Also don't know if anone mentioned this one but you can select all regions on a track (with 'select all regions when selecting track' disabled) by holding option key when selecting track. (best of both worlds )

 

Notes without measures and barlines are like a speedometer without ticks and numbers...

[Matt Mayfield]

did we get noteheads back in the arrange?

 

 

I just wanted to weigh in on this. Not everybody prefers the "noteheads" that were replaced in Logic 8 with a one octave approximation of the piano roll matrix, which I vastly prefer. I always found the notes without ledger lines to be useless and the Logic 8/9 approach useful at a glance for the way I want to work. I would propose that the developers make the two displays an optional preference, giving users an opportunity to choose what works best for them. I for one, am glad that it hasn't been "fixed", as I consider it an improvement over Logic 7. If I have to look at notes I want to see them on a ledger with bar lines so they mean something. To each his own. - Emile

 

Exactly... I have no problem with people preferring the noteheads, and would not begrudge such a preference, but I am always puzzled as to why people like them. They convey no duration information; the piano-roll style bars do. They don't reliably convey pitch information; the piano-roll style Arrange bars... don't either, but at least they're no worse.

 

Is it an aesthetic preference, or is there somehow more information in those tiny noteheads in L7 that I'm not seeing?

[ski]

The noteheads showed you the true arc of the pitch, regardless of the octave span. This is quite unlike the horror show that is the current display -- a display that never shows the correct pitch arc because the pitch indicators wrap to the bottom when the pitch gets above some threshold. For me, and I'm sure for others who appreciated the noteheads, there was never any issue with the notehead display not showing duration. If you knew your music then you knew the durations.

 

I'm on the verge of a rant about this (lack-of-noteheads rant #23) but I'm going to refrain from going there and sign off.

[wip]

marana wrote:

I'm talking about DE-selecting already-selected regions in the Arrange, which should happen as soon as I click on any track header (or if I click on ANYTHING, for that matter).

 

Currently, already-selected regions do not get unselected (and therefore, will frequently get deleted accidently if, for example, I select an unneeded track to delete it). Clicking anything in the Arrange (including tracks) should deselect already selected regions.

 

i'm with u on this!

there's very few things that bothers me about Logic but this is one of them.

many times, i find myself with all visable regions selected but just want to select one of them. this means i have to hold shift-command + A to unselect and THEN select the one region i want OR zoom out 'til i see an open space on the arrange-page and click before selecting. very annoying!

 

as for accidentaly deleting the regions, that is more a matter of knowing what you're doing but that's easier said than done when you find yrself in stressful situations.

[ski]

I have no problem with people preferring the noteheads, and would not begrudge such a preference, but I am always puzzled as to why people like them. They convey no duration information; the piano-roll style bars do. They don't reliably convey pitch information; the piano-roll style Arrange bars... don't either, but at least they're no worse.

 

Is it an aesthetic preference, or is there somehow more information in those tiny noteheads in L7 that I'm not seeing?

 

Not to put too fine a point on my point, but here's a comparison of notehead display vs. piano roll-style display.

 

Below we see Logic 7.2.3's notehead display on the left, and Logic 9's piano roll-style display on the right. The performance shown in both versions are exactly the same (via MIDI file) -- a glissando played from the bottom to the top of the keyboard and then back down again. To make the comparison I increasingly zoomed in on the region in each version and took screenshots when I noticed a significant change in the shape of the pitch contour displayed.

 

In the notehead display (left, Logic 7.2.3), notice how the pitch contour remains essentially true to the excursion of the notes regardless of the zoom level. Sure, the overall shape is squashed at higher zoom levels, and even the top-most notes in all three views are flatlined. But the basic overall shape can be easily seen and understood for what it is. Compare this to...

 

...the exact same performance shown in Logic 9. I chose to display five different zoom levels for comparison (as opposed to three views for 7.2.3) because the pitch contour shown in Logic 9's display changed at least five times as I increasingly zoomed in to the track.

 

At no point in Logic 9's piano roll-style display is the pitch contour ever displayed accurately with respect to the actual excursion of the notes.

 

http://www.score2picture.com/L9pix/noteheadsx.jpg

[dkgross]

great visual comparison, Ski...NO DOUBT that this should be a Preference. For its inteneded usage note duration isn't that important. As you showed me once, in a full midi mockup of an orchestral piece, the Notehead display is invaluable visual information (without having to deal with the score editor on a seperate screen, etc).

 

Does really make me wonder why it went away in L8...and if it's even possible to bring it back as an option in a Preference window...

[Ashermusic]

great visual comparison, Ski...NO DOUBT that this should be a Preference. For its inteneded usage note duration isn't that important. As you showed me once, in a full midi mockup of an orchestral piece, the Notehead display is invaluable visual information (without having to deal with the score editor on a seperate screen, etc).

 

Does really make me wonder why it went away in L8...and if it's even possible to bring it back as an option in a Preference window...

 

I have written this before but my understanding is that the developers never intended the note display in the Arrange window to serve any purpose other than to confirm there were MIDI notes in the region. Editing was to be done in the MIDI editors.

 

They changed from notes to bars because we are raising, for better or worse, a generation of users who relate more to the Piano Roll editor than the Score editor, as many of them do not read traditional notation.

 

I doubt his will change.

[ski]

I have written this before but my understanding is that the developers never intended the note display in the Arrange window to serve any purpose other than to confirm there were MIDI notes in the region. Editing was to be done in the MIDI editors.

 

I think you're missing the point slightly, my friend. This has nothing to do with editing. The notehead display does exactly what you described -- it confirms that there are MIDI notes in a region, just like the birch bark display does. But unlike the birch bark, the notehead display shows the pitch contour. It must have been intentionally programmed to show exactly that. Or if it was a mistake, it was a gorgeous one that was around for probably 12 years or so and then deprecated for some unknown reason (more on this in a moment). But to the point --- you can't do editing of durations the birch bark display. You couldn't do it on the notehead display either. The ONLY thing you can edit on either display is velocity. And thank gawd THAT hasn't been deprecated. Yet...

 

I would think that people doing drum programming, say, would LOVE to see their kicks positioned at a lower point in the display than their snares or crashes. Right? Does that make sense? But depending on the zoom level, that display can appear to be exactly the opposite. Or totally kerfuffled! As you know, that's Yiddish for "totally freekin' useless."

 

As far as the argument that the birch bark display shows durations, I certainly can't argue with anyone that finds it useful. Right? However, I just can't imagine a situation for myself where I'd want to see durations in that display because, after all, I played the notes in, why wouldn't I already know that info in my head?

 

But from a visual recognition standpoint, where you have scads of MIDI tracks, seeing the pitch contour immediately identifies (in my mind anyway) what I'm looking at in about 3 femtoseconds.

 

Furthermore (that's right, I'm not done yet...) look at these two regions:

 

http://www.score2picture.com/L9pix/bb1.jpg

http://www.score2picture.com/L9pix/bb2.jpg

 

Do they look like the same part to you? Well, they ARE!! They're both representations of this simple pattern of

kick, snare, crash, hh, but at two different zoom levels:

 

http://www.score2picture.com/L9pix/bbpr.jpg

 

Stellar feature that birch bark display. Stellar. Or, in the newspeak of the new generation, "epic fail".

 

So for this "new generation" whom, as you say, are growing up with a piano roll frame of mind... the piano roll editor (nee matrix editor) is nothing new. I remember Alan Friedman programming drums for C&C Music Factory on a PC laptop and editing that way. Heck, probably even Dr. T's Algorithmic Composer had a feature like this if memory serves. So what makes this generation different that they have to see birch bark instead of noteheads? 'Splain that one, Loooooocy.