Logic Pro 10.6 is out

[marcperi]

I love this new feature

[Ploki]

As said, that's speaking volumes about Apples software quality assurance. Really, it might not harm anyone, but that's nothing that should ever happen in a "Pro" application.

Personally, as a pro, an unfinished feature that doesn't have to be turned on creeping into a .0 release is the least of my worries.

yup.

the linger PDC bug is what worries me more

[fisherking]

As said, that's speaking volumes about Apples software quality assurance. Really, it might not harm anyone, but that's nothing that should ever happen in a "Pro" application.

Personally, as a pro, an unfinished feature that doesn't have to be turned on creeping into a .0 release is the least of my worries.

 

it's worth considering that every app (as it is with every OS), is always a work-in-progress; always features to implement, bugs to squash (&, sigh, bugs to create). i agree here with david, things that don't exist (but are indicated) don't matter (yet); being able to work well does.

[Sascha Franck]

being able to work well does.

 

Ok, I'm not able to work well with 10.6 - does that count then?

[David Nahmani]

Ok, I'm not able to work well with 10.6 - does that count then?

I suppose you kept a backup of 10.5.1? I always keep backups of earlier versions, that way I can experiment with the new version when I have some free time but if anything doesn't work the way I want, when I actually need to get some work done, I can continue working in the previous version the same way I did before the last version release.

[fisherking]

being able to work well does.

 

Ok, I'm not able to work well with 10.6 - does that count then?

 

sorry, meant no harm.

 

did you mean you cannot run 10.6? or that you are running it, and it's not working well for you?

[Sascha Franck]

did you mean you cannot run 10.6? or that you are running it, and it's not working well for you?

 

My machine isn't supported. But they didn't fix plenty of longstanding bugs in the versions I can run, either.

[David Nahmani]

My machine isn't supported. But they didn't fix plenty of longstanding bugs in the versions I can run, either.

I'm afraid that's business as usual. Not condoning it but I'm not sure how else it should be. Obviously at some point things have to move forward, and Apple can't justify budgeting continuous free updates along with compatibility with all older machines/OS and bug fixes for older versions even when there's a new version out, etc... I feel like the business model they've chosen isn't too bad as far as compromises we have to make. Today I'm running Logic Pro X 10.6 on Catalina on a 2013 MacBook Air. Not that bad.

[cleamon]

Well, I'd cut them (the guys and gals in development) some slack. The application bundle (10.5.x) alone has 72,740 files in it. Each of those files might require 1, a hand full, 100s or 1000s of source files to produce. It's a BIG project and things can slip through the cracks, especially in a pressure cooker atmosphere. Just sayin'

[Sascha Franck]

I'm afraid that's business as usual. Not condoning it but I'm not sure how else it should be.

 

- Fix longstanding, horrible bugs.

- Support OSes that are supported.

 

Instead they expect me to buy a new machine.

[fisherking]

I'm afraid that's business as usual. Not condoning it but I'm not sure how else it should be.

 

- Fix longstanding, horrible bugs.

- Support OSes that are supported.

 

Instead they expect me to buy a new machine.

 

perhaps those bugs aren't affecting most users? am not having any actual issues (am not saying there aren't bugs, or that they shouldn't be addressed). and no need to buy a new machine, you can run the version of logic you're running... for as long as you use the mac you're using.

[Sascha Franck]

Well, I'd cut them (the guys and gals in development) some slack. The application bundle (10.5.x) alone has 72,740 files in it. Each of those files might require 1, a hand full, 100s or 1000s of source files to produce. It's a BIG project and things can slip through the cracks, especially in a pressure cooker atmosphere. Just sayin'

 

Doesn't have anything to do with the number of files. All it takes is:

 

1) One single betatester to find the unfinished Chord Track feature.

2) Telling Apple they can't release it that way.

3) Apple to listen to it.

 

Three easy steps, happening each day in software development land. Which step is missing here? Regardless of which one it is, it proves shoddy quality assurance.

[Sascha Franck]

you can run the version of logic you're running... for as long as you use the mac you're using.

 

I could of course as well still be using an ST1040, right. Or tape. Or bang wooden sticks against each other.

[LSFP]

Some Waves Abbey Road Plug Ins not working anymore on 10.6

Logic crashes when I try to open them.

[Multispace]

On a positive note: I like the 10.6 update so far

[des99]

I understand Sascha's frustrations (for many years), and I'm also affected by the same issues now, and have been in the past. But it is very much "the song remains the same".

 

People may want the reality to be different, but at some point you either accept the reality and make decisions based on that, or you just spend your energies fighting hard to somehow change something that's most likely (especially given the history) not going to change.

 

I can't be bothered with the "Apple should do this because it would suit my particular circumstances better" because, frankly, it's a waste of energy. And Apple have larger strategies to run their company than not piss off a bunch of people with ten year old computers that can't run the stuff that was released yesterday.

 

I'm going to buy a new machine at some point - not now, but at some point in the future, and I'll be able to jump back on to the current upgrade path then. Until then, I'll use what I have - which is still pretty damn great, flaws notwithstanding.

[Sascha Franck]

I can't be bothered with the "Apple should do this because it would suit my particular circumstances better"

 

This is in no way what I'm saying. But I expect proper product support, though.

[cleamon]

Well, I'd cut them (the guys and gals in development) some slack. The application bundle (10.5.x) alone has 72,740 files in it. Each of those files might require 1, a hand full, 100s or 1000s of source files to produce. It's a BIG project and things can slip through the cracks, especially in a pressure cooker atmosphere. Just sayin'

 

Doesn't have anything to do with the number of files. All it takes is:

 

1) One single betatester to find the unfinished Chord Track feature.

2) Telling Apple they can't release it that way.

3) Apple to listen to it.

 

Three easy steps, happening each day in software development land. Which step is missing here? Regardless of which one it is, it proves shoddy quality assurance.

Well, we are the beta tester -- the price we pay for "free" updates.

[fisherking]

you can run the version of logic you're running... for as long as you use the mac you're using.

 

I could of course as well still be using an ST1040, right. Or tape. Or bang wooden sticks against each other.

 

that seems a bit... extreme. anyway, am saying exactly what i'm saying; you have a working system, and can work. and you're not forced to revert to tape, or banging wooden sticks (both things you could do, if you wanted).

[skijumptoes]

There's definitely two trains (chains?) of thought on this obsolescence topic.

 

If you take Cockos and Reaper they maximise compatibility and you can install latest version on a MacOS 10.5 machine. However, it's not exactly a DAW you'd point to as embracing modern frameworks and advancements.

 

It's whole interface and graphics is quite dated and clunky compared to other DAWs - it lacks a slickness and instead revolves around a good understand of key commands and it's actions system. Many complain about this, but equally many love that approach.

 

But they're an example of a company who pride themselves on reaching the most users and not using OS updates to sell/generate revenue. Unlike a company like Steinberg whom revenue is key, and they will move with OS revisions as a sales strategy.

 

The question really falls down to whether you want progression, and willing to keep up on the hardware front to receive it. Many people who are sat on old hardware would probably prefer to stay out of date yet receiving fixes and slight improvements. But i'm sure a large majority want new features, slicker visual interfaces and making the most of modern hardware.

 

I can see why Apple don't want to leave one foot in the door as it moves to the next.. I mean, this is exactly their approach to Apple Silicon. They're rapidly moving towards lean innovations, there's never been a worse time to sit out-dated in the Apple eco system (IMO). Out-dated nowadays is 6-8 years i guess? That's potentially 800$ saved vs other DAW's that charge updates per year - so swings and roundabouts.

Edited November 13, 2020 by skijumptoes

[fisherking]

apple (like any other corporation) does what it chooses to do, and we adapt... or don't. not much beyond that (outside of dosdude's patch, for example.... or jailbreaking out iphones... which i used to do, and miss).

[Dewdman42]

This is not the first time Apple has given the middle finger to users that value stability and backwards compatibility. We all should have seen this coming. I’m more annoyed about it this morning after sleeping on it.

 

In my view this makes Logic Pro an un-professional product, just based on that fact alone.

 

The fact that 10.6 has fixed a bunch of bugs that should have been bug fixes in 10.5, while also jumping from a 2 year backwards compatibility window to only one year of backwards compatibility is just awful. I doubt it’s a conspiracy but just lousy software engineering practices, which also can be seen in some of the quirky things people are noticing about 10.6 chord track and other stuff. Yea, rushed out to say the least, I would say almost for sure in order to have native arm version of Logic Pro for people to run their daw stress tests on with the new hardware.

 

Boo apple. I’m very displeased.

 

The reason all the other major daws can still run on mojave is because there is no reason not to! Well maybe unless you need to worry about native ARM support.

 

Apple chooses to alienate people with older hardware or 32 bit needs, the other daws choose to provide wider compatibility and a wider audience. Apple charges nothing for the update so they have no incentive to embrace a wider audience that way. The others charge for updates so the more people they can get to update the better. Apple sells hardware, they sell daw software. Simple as that. Logicpro is a loss leader subsidized incentive program for selling more new macs. If you feel you can trust to continue in that program for your professional needs then great I’m happy for you but I feel that is a very unprofessional approach, and since I haven’t paid for an update in forever, it is to be expected.

 

Regarding cMP and Catalina, I spent a lot of time researching this last night for the latest info. I do not recommend at this time. Dos dude’s Patcher does work and it’s easy enough to use but people should be aware that even with that patcher you will lose the ability to do proper updates and also apparently not everything works 100% related to HVEC video, hardware acceleration and a few things like that. The best way to upgrade a cMP to Catalina today is with Open Core, and is a very complicated procedure which is like doing a very complex hackintosh, not for the faint of heart. I’ll do that approach eventually for sure to keep using my cMP in some capacity for years to come but in my mind Mojave stability is still the right choice for today, particularly considering that logicpro 10.6 doesn’t really offer much in the way of exciting new features or anything that would make it worth buying a new computer or going through the extreme effort of setting up open Core cMP, which may or may not even work for Big Sur or May become even less stable.

 

The right decision for cMP Is use mojave until you just can’t stand using Logic Pro 10.5.1 any longer, then reconsider all your options. I think there is still a good year or two on mojave with the cMP myself. After that my cMP will likely be converted to windows 10 on open core. Perhaps even running cubase, but I digress.

[Sascha Franck]

Thing is, Apple's support of *their own* flagship sequencer doesn't even cover *their own* OS that is just about a few days older than 2 years.

In case anyone feels the need to justify/defend that, more power to you - but you won't convince me about this move being anything else but totally ridiculous.

Apple wants their users to believe in the value of a "totally embedded" system (hardware, OS and main applications all from one single vendor) - and yet they're doing everything to demolish this left and right.

And no, it's got absolutely nothing to do with me using what some may call an outdated computer (which it actually isn't), there's *lots* of folks who simply prefer to stick with older macOS versions for good reasons. Tried and trusted and all that.

Besides, Logic is the *only* professional sequencer not running under Mojave.

As said, that's just ridiculous on all accounts.

[ozinga]

Actually I think it is good that 10.5 came out with Mojave support few months earlier. If they kept it until now and release it with Big Sur a lot of Mojave users would have been left with nothing except a 3 year old update. Nonetheless I think at least 3 generation of OS should be supported.

[fisherking]

This is not the first time Apple has given the middle finger to users that value stability and backwards compatibility. We all should have seen this coming.

 

uh. what? as far as stability, it's always a risk when moving forward. but 10.6 on catalina here has been running beautifully, stable (as was logic 10.5 etc). and apple does what it either needs to do or chooses to do, in terms of backwards compatibility. anyway, i think you're taking this way too personally; tech moves forward, things change... and life goes on.

[KC]

It is what it is, or course. And Apple doesn't listen very well to its users. What gets me is the timing of it all. They should have held off on 10.5. Not give us an update that works on Mojave and 6 months later do a mostly bug fix update that locks us out. OK - I done complaining.

 

btw - I really like Reaper and am starting to use it more and more.

[KC]

This is not the first time Apple has given the middle finger to users that value stability and backwards compatibility. We all should have seen this coming.

 

uh. what? as far as stability, it's always a risk when moving forward. but 10.6 on catalina here has been running beautifully, stable (as was logic 10.5 etc). and apple does what it either needs to do or chooses to do, in terms of backwards compatibility. anyway, i think you're taking this way too personally; tech moves forward, things change... and life goes on.

 

But, Mojave has been a lot less reliable on my system than High Sierra.

[Dewdman42]

@sascha, I agree but I don’t think apple cares about real pro use, never has. They have given some lip service in terms of cutting edge tech and some pros and consumers do value that. But especially in a pro or office environment it’s very very costly to have to upgrade all your stuff and more often it is not really necessary from a business perspective.

 

For example in my case I have been told by MOTU that my multiple midi interfaces are not stable under catalina. My motu pci interfaces, not supported by catalina. It’s ok I already spent a lot to get a better lynx solution but guess that I can’t use that either unless I want to pony up for an expensive 2019 MP that I don’t really need otherwise. And on and on it goes. Continual madness to upgrade stuff thst doesn’t really need to be updated.

 

Apple cares about only one thing, sell more hardware. And particularly I think they are now on a journey to mainly sell to consumers, not pros. They offer cutting edge tech for sure and a loyal user base that regards them with religious conviction, and I still think OS X from five years ago is way better then windows 10. But nonetheless, the cost and hassle involved with their updates is excruciating. Their constant disregard for stability drives me bonkers. They are heading increasingly towards the iPhone disposable computer model which works for cheap consumer stuff but doesn’t work at all for many pros and especially for prosumers that don’t make much money from this but still want a trick setup. I think this not new, apple has been headed this way for a long time but there are many people they have been lurking along with their cMP, waiting for the right replacement solution from apple, apple just kept putting out consumer solutions. The 2019 MP was finally an answer but way over priced. With the cMP now officially becoming an outdated relic, the issue can’t be swept under the rug any longer.

[fisherking]

 

uh. what? as far as stability, it's always a risk when moving forward. but 10.6 on catalina here has been running beautifully, stable (as was logic 10.5 etc). and apple does what it either needs to do or chooses to do, in terms of backwards compatibility. anyway, i think you're taking this way too personally; tech moves forward, things change... and life goes on.

 

But, Mojave has been a lot less reliable on my system than High Sierra.

 

ok, but every version of the OS has people who are experiencing issues, and others who think it's apple's 'best' OS yet. there's no 'one size fits all'. for me, catalina has been great (yet a lot of people hated this OS). we'll see how big sur goes with logic & FCP (on my non-logic macbook, it's running beautifully).

[seclusion]

All seems fine now once an initial hard time installing.

I think I must have had a corrupt DL with all of yesterdays outages.

I have pulled up 5 of my projects and all is running.

No Audio Unit rescan on anything