Logic Pro 10.6 is out

[Dewdman42]

 

But, Mojave has been a lot less reliable on my system than High Sierra.

 

Not me. Mojave has been great in every way until yesterday.

 

But “stability” is much much bigger then whether a particular OS version runs faster or has less bugs. “Stability” means you don’t have to change s#!+ in your studio because apple forces you to.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Dewdman42

[fisherking]

@sascha, I agree but I don’t think apple cares about real pro use, never has. They have given some lip service in terms of cutting edge tech and some pros and consumers do value that. But especially in a pro or office environment it’s very very costly to have to upgrade all your stuff and more often it is not really necessary from a business perspective.

 

For example in my case I have been told by MOTU that my multiple midi interfaces are not stable under catalina. My motu pci interfaces, not supported by catalina. It’s ok I already spent a lot to get a better lynx solution but guess that I can’t use that either unless I want to pony up for an expensive 2019 MP that I don’t really need otherwise. And on and on it goes. Continual madness to upgrade stuff thst doesn’t really need to be updated.

 

motu then needed to update their drivers, apple can't control every 3rd-party app or device, nor should they. either way, as tech moves forward, some things will no longer run; this is hardly a new issue.

 

but i don't understand your idea that apple doesn't care about pro use. the new mac pros, final cut development... logic development. i know lots of pros editing their movies on macs, pro producers running logic; graphics people running the CC apps, doing pro work.

 

i feel your pain, but you're letting that dictate your thinking; just a humble suggestion: let it go. use what you have, make great music. and when the time comes, you'll update your hardware, and move forward.... until the next bump in the road.

 

it's what we all have to do.

[fisherking]

All seems fine now once an initial hard time installing.

I think I must have had a corrupt DL with all of yesterdays outages.

I have pulled up 5 of my projects and all is running.

No Audio Unit rescan on anything

 

yeah, yesterday's server issues were a sh*tshow, and hopefully apple is better prepared next time they release an OS, and a half-dozen updated apps. still, they should have been prepared this time.

[stratquebec]

I love this new feature

+1

[David Nahmani]

Logic Pro and all plug-ins, content etc... was, at one point, over $5,000 plus regular paid updates. Apple decided to reduce the price to a mere $199 for the whole thing with free updates. Now some users complain that Apple is forcing the purchase of hardware down their throat. That's a choice those users make: to view it from that angle. I choose to view it from another angle: Apple is paying for my hardware every few years, considering that it's giving away the software for (pretty much) free.

[Sascha Franck]

With the cMP now officially becoming an outdated relic, the issue can’t be swept under the rug any longer.

 

Exactly.

 

And well, sure, I can continue using this very machine until the hardware won't work anymore at all - but otoh, I really want to be up to date with certain software items, my sequencer of choice being the key application regarding that. And the only sequencer right now not allowing me to stay up to date would be Logic - that's almost like an oxymoron.

 

Sure, I could now have a look at how these new M1 machines will behave in real life - but as you say, they're more and more becoming consumer items. Something's broken? Well, just throw the thing away. That just doesn't bode well with the old hippie in me.

Apart from that, I absolutely don't feel like losing half of my plugins, paying for updated replacements that won't allow me to properly load older projects anymore. How comes this sounds all too familiar in Apple land?

[des99]

Apple is paying for my hardware every few years, considering that it's giving away the software for (pretty much) free.

 

Nice! Hopefully they can pay for mine too!

I'll send the invoice to the usual address...

[David Nahmani]

I'll send the invoice to the usual address...

You really have THAT much money to waste on stamps???

[Sascha Franck]

Logic Pro and all plug-ins, content etc... was, at one point, over $5,000 plus regular paid updates. Apple decided to reduce the price to a mere $199 for the whole thing with free updates. Now some users complain that Apple is forcing the purchase of hardware down their throat. That's a choice those users make: to view it from that angle. I choose to view it from another angle: Apple is paying for my hardware every few years, considering that it's giving away the software for (pretty much) free.

 

Seriously, I don't think that's a valid argument. Well, at least not for many people. When it comes to plugins, I would get along fine with just 3rd party stuff. And I'm not even using half of the things coming with Logic.

Apart from that, as said before: I never asked for my software to cost peanuts or receive free updates endlessly. I wouldn't have the slightest problem paying 100-200 bucks every year to have my sequencer updated. And fwiw, that's roughly what you pay for Cubase updates (if you skip their .5 updates) and they pretty much never require buying a new computer, unless you feel like.

[Dewdman42]

Logic Pro and all plug-ins, content etc... was, at one point, over $5,000 plus regular paid updates. Apple decided to reduce the price to a mere $199 for the whole thing with free updates. Now some users complain that Apple is forcing the purchase of hardware down their throat. That's a choice those users make: to view it from that angle. I choose to view it from another angle: Apple is paying for my hardware every few years, considering that it's giving away the software for (pretty much) free.

 

The argument you put forth is definitely the question of the day. Accept mediocre reliability and stability for free and pay instead for constant hardware changes... Or...the alternative is leave the platform behind.

 

Myself I would gladly pay Apple for both OSX and LogicPro updates and a little more sanity on the upgrade train. I expect to say many more antics in the next couple years as they try as hard as they can to move everyone to ARM. It will not be pleasant for many people.

[fisherking]

Logic Pro and all plug-ins, content etc... was, at one point, over $5,000 plus regular paid updates. Apple decided to reduce the price to a mere $199 for the whole thing with free updates. Now some users complain that Apple is forcing the purchase of hardware down their throat. That's a choice those users make: to view it from that angle. I choose to view it from another angle: Apple is paying for my hardware every few years, considering that it's giving away the software for (pretty much) free.

 

The argument you put forth is definitely the question of the day. Accept mediocre reliability and stability for free and pay instead for constant hardware changes... Or...the alternative is leave the platform behind.

 

Myself I would gladly pay Apple for both OSX and LogicPro updates and a little more sanity on the upgrade train. I expect to say many more antics in the next couple years as they try as hard as they can to move everyone to ARM. It will not be pleasant for many people.

 

rosetta2. arm users will continue (for some time, at least) to be able to run intel apps.

 

tech moves forward. who's still using a power PC? apple moves at the rate it chooses to; it's an independent company, that can do what it wants; it's vast & growing user base suggests it's doing ok.

 

where are you seeing 'mediocre reliability and stability'? overall, my experience, over all these years, has been pretty great... and is pretty great right now.

[David Nahmani]

Seriously, I don't think that's a valid argument. Well, at least not for many people. When it comes to plugins, I would get along fine with just 3rd party stuff. And I'm not even using half of the things coming with Logic.

Apart from that, as said before: I never asked for my software to cost peanuts or receive free updates endlessly. I wouldn't have the slightest problem paying 100-200 bucks every year to have my sequencer updated. And fwiw, that's roughly what you pay for Cubase updates (if you skip their .5 updates) and they pretty much never require buying a new computer, unless you feel like.

It wasn't an argument, it was a statement of how I feel, which, by definition, since I made it, makes it automatically valid (isn't life magical sometimes).

 

Now there are many ways Apple could handle it, and there may be other ways that would suit you better, but in the end, that's the way they decided to do things. And because they are the ones doing it, they are the ones deciding how they want to handle things. That leaves you, as a customer, with a choice of voting with your $. You can spend your money on Apple, or you can spend it on the competition. But one thing we cannot accuse Apple of is to take us by surprise. Their policy has pretty much been always the same, forward thinking, no looking behind. I remember joining the team begrudgingly, some 23 years ago. I bought a Mac G4 (the very first one, sooo much more modern than the old G3 that preceeded), and I bought a version of Logic (version 4.6) which said on the box "compatible with Macs G3 or newere). Only it wasn't compatible with my G4, which was newer. I had to purchase an adapter from a 3rd party company (Griffin) only to connect my XS key! I remember to this day calling the Emagic team and ranting.

 

This was just my first experience of Apple leaving things behind. They were moving away from the old ports, on to better and brighter futures. Who cares about me, the poor guy who bought his copy of Logic just before the G4 came out, then purchased a G4. I hated it, but so be it. I made my decision to stick with it anyway and I don't regret a thing today, but I'm not surprised anymore. I don't mind if tomorrow they come up with a new Mac computer that is no longer compatible with my USB drives for example. I know it's their decision, I know it's their way of handling things, I've accepted it, and I've decided to go along with it.

 

If I liked more freedom I'd be using a PC with Windows or Linux and some other DAW.

 

Only I made the choice. No one else made it for me. I take my responsibilities. AND I know that I can change course any day I want. No one is forcing me to stay in this paradigm if I no longer like it.

 

That's freedom.

[Ashermusic]

Title is wrong, no more Logic Pro X, just Logic Pro.

[David Nahmani]

The argument you put forth is definitely the question of the day. Accept mediocre reliability and stability for free and pay instead for constant hardware changes... Or...the alternative is leave the platform behind.

Argument of the day, or accept that that is pretty much how life works? Complain about how things are, or decide that you're not going to take it and are going to change the way things are? What good is it looking at a stone thinking very hard, very intently, with all your power, that you really, really wish it weren't a stone?

 

Yes, at some point, accept the way the platform works and the way the people who offer that platform do business with you, or leave the platform behind. There's always a 3rd option which is to try to change things. Go and knock at the door of the people who offer the platform to convince them to change the way they do business with you. And that can be very admirable, if only you actually spend the time to understand how and why they do things the way they do, to the point that you can convince them that you know better than them how they should conduct their business. But until that is the case, all you're doing is looking at a stone, wishing it weren't a stone.

[David Nahmani]

Title is wrong, no more Logic Pro X, just Logic Pro.

Correcting it now.

[Ashermusic]

The chord editor is included mistakenly, doesn’t do anything, expect it to be gone in 10.6.1. Edited November 13, 2020 by Ashermusic

[Dan Banan]

Very nice update, no complaints.

Just hoped for total integration with Softube Console.

Support for Sonarworks Render bypass notification

and song dependent I / O labels as an alternative to global.

 

Have a nice weekend!

[Dewdman42]

There's always a 3rd option which is to try to change things.

 

Yes! Any why not? I will definitely not hold back my criticisms. That is exactly how the seeds of change can begin. The next step is stop giving any money to Apple. Believe me, if they come out with a proper mid tier prosumer machine, i will buy one. So far they have not. They just continue on the path I have been pointing out. You can put your head in the sand and "accept things" or you can criticize it...and there is nothing wrong with criticizing something you feel is wrong..including from Apple!

 

You just restating the obvious though David, I guess because reading my criticisms about Apple is driving you nuts...but absolutely I have the option to leave LogicPro eventually...and perhaps OSX too...which I just might do...begrudgingly. I don't really want to. I want Apple to be better so I can stay.

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, so far the move towards ARM CPUs seems to be a great move. And I could absolutely justify starting out sort of from scratch, waiting for software to be ported/rewritten or whatever. It's possibly a bigger move than from PPC to Intel - which was the single best thing that happened to Macs in the last decades.

 

But that doesn't mean much (if anything) regarding this update. Until things are really ready to roll on a serious level (which they aren't even remotely right now), Apple should try to support their longtime users rather than p***ing them off.

 

Personally, it's pretty much likely that I would happily shell out the dough for a new ARM machine in 1-2 years. But for that to still be something I'd like to do, they shouldn't just kick me out of any further Logic updates for no reason at all.

Sure, they want my money now (no, they wanted it yesterday), but they won't get any for the time being. This isn't the right time to buy a new Mac, at least not in case your producing music with it. Intel will be obsolete soon and ARM isn't ready for primetime at all. I'm absolutely sure it's pretty much like that for *many* cheesgrateers which were hoping for a decent replacement without having to break the bank to purchase a new Mac Pro. And now Apple is majorly annoying plenty of the cheesgrater/Logic folks by releasing an update that pretty much just shows them the finger.

[Dewdman42]

+1

[fisherking]

There's always a 3rd option which is to try to change things.

 

Yes! Any why not? I will definitely not hold back my criticisms. That is exactly how the seeds of change can begin. The next step is stop giving any money to Apple. Believe me, if they come out with a proper mid tier prosumer machine, i will buy one. So far they have not. They just continue on the path I have been pointing out. You can put your head in the sand and "accept things" or you can criticize it...and there is nothing wrong with criticizing something you feel is wrong..including from Apple!

 

You just restating the obvious though David, I guess because reading my criticisms about Apple is driving you nuts...but absolutely I have the option to leave LogicPro eventually...and perhaps OSX too...which I just might do...begrudgingly. I don't really want to. I want Apple to be better so I can stay.

 

it's fine to be critical, but you should be directing your venom I MEAN concerns to apple directly perhaps, instead of complaining endlessly on a forum... just a thought. and am sure if you stop giving money to apple, things will change, and apple will feel the pain.. and you'll get what you want.

 

computer manufacturers, car companies... all these products are designed as those companies see fit. and you can choose what works for you, what doesn't. otherwise, as said before... you adapt. i don't see what else there is (or what else you expect).

[des99]

they shouldn't just kick me out of any further Logic updates for no reason at all.

 

Not knowing the reasons and assuming there are no reasons are not the same.

 

We don't know the reasons - it may be they are bad ones ("we just couldn't be bothered to do some extra work to support the old stuff"), or it may be there are good ones ("we can't support the old ones because they don't understand the concept of universal binaries and thus can't run the new versions - it's a technical constraint we can't get around") or it may be ones in the middle ("Apple corporate forced this decision on the developers so it would force people to buy more Macs").

 

We don't know what those decisions were, so we don't have control over them, which makes us feel powerless, not listened too, not cared about it.

 

Yes, these decisions are always pain points when you are one of the folks left behind, and there are constraints which mean it's not trivial to move forward (not just cost, but legacy compatibility etc).

 

This is the thing for me though - you already have a working system that does a lot. Continue to use it. If there comes a day when moving forward is more pressing, more achievable, or just necessary, do it. The world doesn't stop just because your splash screen doesn't show the highest numbers, or your software can't do some of things that you didn't even know existed last week.

[Sascha Franck]

The world doesn't stop just because your splash screen doesn't show the highest numbers, or your software can't do some of things that you didn't even know existed last week.

 

Thing is, my software can't even do things anymore that it used to do with sheer excellence for, well, 1.5 decades.

[David Nahmani]

You just restating the obvious though David, I guess because reading my criticisms about Apple is driving you nuts...but absolutely I have the option to leave LogicPro eventually...and perhaps OSX too...which I just might do...begrudgingly. I don't really want to. I want Apple to be better so I can stay.

No Steve, your criticism toward Apple does not drive me nuts at all. I myself have a LOT of criticism toward Apple. What do you guess I'm feeling having worked for the past 8 months, in part in close relationship with the Apple Logic team, on completely revamping my book that came out less than 2 months ago, titled "Logic Pro X 10.5", and seeing them release 10.6 today? I completely understand that you or others may have criticisms, and I don't mind them. We all have our battles. I started in this business stating that I wasn't an Apple fan boy and couldn't care less what tool anyone used, myself included, as long as it lead to doing the job, in our case producing the music in our head. Decades later I stand by that statement. I have heard incredible music coming out of Windows, MacOS, Logic, Cubase, Ableton, Fruity Loops, 4-track tape recorders, you name it. I really couldn't care less. When I hear music I like, my first thought isn't to wonder what tool was used to produce it. My first thought is no thought, just let myself be moved by the art.

 

I'm just saying that at some point Apple has to make decisions on how they conduct their business, and, having been close to them for the past 20+ years, I've noticed how no matter how they handle it, the user base is complaining. You just can't make everyone happy. That's okay. To me, their business model makes sense. Give away $5,000 software for free (pretty much) to make people join the Apple eco-system and start purchasing Mac computers, iPads, iPhones, Apple subscription services, for themselves, for their spouse, their children, etc. Why not. I'm not your typical Apple fan boy. I don't own the latest and greatest Mac or iPhone, neither do my wife or kids, I don't have a Music subscription, I don't have a Mac in my living room or bedroom. It's just a tool. Like a hammer. If I need to build things I'll reach for it, otherwise I couldn't care less. And I certainly won't get upset because someone says my hammer is too heavy or too short or too red or whatever. And if need be, at some point I may very well get a new hammer. For now I'm okay though.

[Ashermusic]

The new ARM Silicon chips use an integrated Memory system for RAM so 16 GB is reportedly way more efficient on them then on an Intel Mac. And Logic reportedly by Apple can run three times as many plugins and tracks on one.

 

So until one of us gets one and tries to run a big orchestral sample library project, it isn’t clear how well or poorly it will do so.

 

Personally, I am tempted to get one and use it as my Logic master while running my orchestral stuff in Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 on my present Intel Mac mini with 64 GB. But I will probably keep my powder dry for now.

[David Nahmani]

Thing is, my software can't even do things anymore that it used to do with sheer excellence for, well, 1.5 decades.

The software that used to do things with sheer excellence for 1.5 decades hasn't changed. You can continue to use it today. No one is forcing you to give it up.

[fisherking]

Thing is, my software can't even do things anymore that it used to do with sheer excellence for, well, 1.5 decades.

The software that used to do things with sheer excellence for 1.5 decades hasn't changed. You can continue to use it today. No one is forcing you to give it up.

 

this, really.

[Dewdman42]

This is the thing for me though - you already have a working system that does a lot. Continue to use it. If there comes a day when moving forward is more pressing, more achievable, or just necessary, do it. .

 

This is best advice for now. I'm actually totally fine with LPX 10.5.1. I haven't run into most of the bugs people have complained about...well except for the bloody disappearing articulation set thing....which they never fixed. I saw some comments in the 10.6 release notes that might mean they fixed that...but only if I buy a new computer.

 

A lot of other well known bugs have been around for years and will probably continue to be around for years...

 

Anyway, myself I will still be watching to see what Apple does. I'd love to stay with the platform mainly because I'm a UNIX head and I love OSX because of that. To a lessor extent I also really like LogicPro, though honestly there are other very fine DAW's such as Cubase/S1/DP/Reaper. So as my relic cMP truly runs out of steam I will definitely be taking that into consideration as well as the manner in which Apple is handling this... which in my view will not be any better then the PPC->Intel transition...which for the record, sent me over to there PC platform also...for at least 5 years.

[Dewdman42]

The new ARM Silicon chips use an integrated Memory system for RAM so 16 GB is reportedly way more efficient

 

Just to be clear, the new architecture makes the SPEED of memory handling way more efficient....and basically a lot less of moving data around. All a good thing. But it does not make the SPACE aspect any more efficient. In fact possibly less efficient in that regard since more components of the CPU will be sharing the same memory space.

 

So until one of us gets one and tries to run a big orchestral sample library project, it isn’t clear how well or poorly it will do so.

 

indeed.

[des99]

It's certainly got lively again in the Mac community, for sure! Personally, not being a particular fan of phones, I got a bit annoyed back when the iPhone came along and all my existing Mac resources/podcasts/etc got bogged down with talking about phones all the time.

 

So it's quite nice to have some Mac excitement in the world again!

 

I think for me, it makes sense to wait until the better MBP's etc come out, and I'll probably keep my existing/old system, with all it's hodge podge of old to new software, which can always load everything, old projects, run old software etc when necessary, and probably start from a clean, scratch system, and only install the stuff that I need, and that'll probably do me for the next ten years.

 

If I can work, the fans don't kick in all the time, the battery lasts plenty and the thing doesn't burn my hands off, I think I'll be pretty happy!