macOS Ventura out today

[seclusion]

Maybe hearing older audio interfaces with FW aren't working.

 

[Jope]

24 minutes ago, seclusion said:

Maybe hearing older audio interfaces with FW aren't working.

Exactly. What I don't understand is: My computer is able to identify the Edirol FA-101 by name as FireWire device in the System Profiler (connected via the chain [Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter] - [Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter], both adapters made by Apple)... So the computer still knows FireWire exists... But I cannot select it for audio out oder in.

Do I want to buy a new interface... Or just wait and see if Apple just forgot something but will add soon... Or maybe someone else finds a solution?

BTW Monterey had no problem using the FA-101.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Jope

[des99]

Firewire itself still works - it's just "unsupported", and has been for a while. Note "unsupported" does not mean "removed" or "broken", it's still there, just no longer being actively developed or maintained.

However, if your FW device requires a driver, and that driver is old, outdated and unsupported, and the *driver* no-longer works on modern MacOS systems, then you won't be able to use that device - but that is a different issue to Ventura not supporting Firewire devices, which I've seen little to no evidence for (but I've seen plenty of reports of people plugging in their FW devices and saying they still work - proving the opposite.)

So it looks that the status of FW support on Macs is no different to what it has been since FW was officially no longer supported (was this around Catalina or Big Sur time? Can't remember exactly when offhand).

Possibly one day FW support will be actively removed from macOS, but that's not today, at least, as far as I can see.

Edited October 27, 2022 by des99

[Jope]

5 minutes ago, des99 said:

Firewire itself still works - it's just "unsupported", and has been for a while. Note "unsupported" does not mean "removed" or "broken", it's still there, just no longer being actively developed or maintained.

However, if your FW device requires a driver, and that driver is old, outdated and unsupported, and the *driver* no-longer works on modern MacOS systems, then you won't be able to use that device - but that is a different issue to Ventura not supporting Firewire devices, which I've seen little to no evidence for (but I've seen plenty of reports of people plugging in their FW devices and saying they still work - proving the opposite.)

So it looks that the status of FW support on Macs is no different to what it has been since FW was officially no longer supported (was this around Catalina or Big Sur time? Can't remember exactly when offhand).

Possibly one day FW support will be actively removed from macOS, but that's not today, at least, as far as I can see.

Oh good. Simple-minded people might think: The interface hasn't changed, so the way getting data from and to it hasn't changed, and they are still digital audio data, so there is no need for a new driver... But we all know better: Audio data processed by old drivers just sound... old. Apple does not want to expose users to old-sounding data.

Okay, I'll shut up already.

[des99]

Sean from Valhalla DSP says there are authorisation issues with their plugins on Ventura. If you already have them installed and authorised when upgrading, they will continue to work, but trying to authorise them on Ventura doesn't work currently...

[fisherking]

32 minutes ago, des99 said:

Sean from Valhalla DSP says there are authorisation issues with their plugins on Ventura. If you already have them installed and authorised when upgrading, they will continue to work, but trying to authorise them on Ventura doesn't work currently...

ah. all my valhalla plugins work, but they're carried over from monterey. guess he'll need to fix that...

[GrabtharsHammer]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

Sean from Valhalla DSP says there are authorisation issues with their plugins on Ventura. If you already have them installed and authorised when upgrading, they will continue to work, but trying to authorise them on Ventura doesn't work currently...

I did a clean installation of Ventura on my M1 iMac. When I opened Valhalla VintageVerb and Delay in Logic Pro, they didn't show the license altert window so I wasn't able to authorize the plug-ins. Then I opened Cubase 12 (also in native mode) and the VST3 versions of the plug-ins showed the license activation window as they should, so I could authorize them this way. 

So anyone having problems with this - try another DAW to authorize the Valhalla plug-ins. 

[KC]

3 hours ago, des99 said:

Sean from Valhalla DSP says there are authorisation issues with their plugins on Ventura. If you already have them installed and authorised when upgrading, they will continue to work, but trying to authorise them on Ventura doesn't work currently...

Actually, he mentions that you can validate his plugs in something other DAW than Logic on first open (he recommends Reaper as a free demo) and then they will work in Logic. It seems to be an initial authorization bug, not that the plugs themselves won’t work. 

[des99]

I just said "authorisation issues", as his tweet didn't go into specifics, or say anything about this only affecting Logic - he just mentioned that exact wording, and I haven't followed up any conversations about it afterwards. As mentioned above, Grabthar's Hammer already suggested this workaround for one issue - I don't know if there are others. Just passing the info I saw at the time on...

Edited October 27, 2022 by des99

[Ashermusic]

Apogee says they should have a driver update for my Element 24 in a few weeks but almost none of my critical third party stuff seems to be compatible yet.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/apple-macos-ventura-audio-compatibility-chart

[fisherking]

35 minutes ago, Ashermusic said:

Apogee says they should have a driver update for my Element 24 in a few weeks but almost none of my critical third party stuff seems to be compatible yet.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/apple-macos-ventura-audio-compatibility-chart

not compatible... or not supported? as all my 3rd-party plugins work, and it's the same for a couple of my friends (with different plugins).

which plugins are you concerned about? lots of things in that list have worked thru the entire beta period (ie fabfilter, output, NI, modartt, izotope, etc).

[kerochan]

Just my humble opinion, but if, like me, all is stable with Monterey & Logic, or whatever OS & Logic version you are on, you not obliged to update!   

I only just updated to Monterey from El Capitan and Logic 10. 3.2 a few weeks ago, as I got a new computer, was on the same same system/set up for 7 years.

Stability is paramount!   

Of course its easier if you have 2 systems.

Hoping everyone enjoys Ventura anyway!   

[Ashermusic]

The database says "no." For me, no is no. 🙂

At a minimum, I need to be sure that the following to all be compatible before I can go to Ventura: Apogee Element 24 and plugins, UAD 2 card and plug-ins, Virtual instruments and samplers from Spectrasonics, EastWest Opus, Native Instruments Kontakt, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Best Service Engine, UVI Workstation,  Addictive Drums 2, U-He and Cherry Audio synths, IK Multimedia Amplitude 5, Spitfire Symphonic Motions, and PSP plugins.

So therefore, I will wait until they say "safe to go in the water."

[KC]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

I just said "authorisation issues", as his tweet didn't go into specifics, or say anything about this only affecting Logic - he just mentioned that exact wording, and I haven't followed up any conversations about it afterwards. As mentioned above, Grabthar's Hammer already suggested this workaround for one issue - I don't know if there are others. Just passing the info I saw at the time on...

Yes, I meant no offense, just trying to clear up what I had read on the blog. 

[Dave Blackburn]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:08 AM, deckard1 said:

I can't remember...how easy is it to revert back to Monterey 12.6 if Ventura is an issue? I wanted to try Ventura out. 

I just tried it as Logic crashes every time I try to bounce a mix, and it tells me "this volume can't be downgraded" which is a dilemma. I can't do any mixing until Logic is updated.

 

[Dave Blackburn]

I made the mistake of jumping on Ventura this week, assuming Apple would have tested it with Logic. Alas, Logic crashes every time I go to bounce a mix. To make matters worse, I have a bootable 12.6 Monterey disk but when I go to reinstall the prior OS I'm getting "this volume can't be downgraded."

So - until Apple put out a fix in Logic I think I'm stuck, unable to mix. Other than that, Ventura seems good.

[fisherking]

2 hours ago, Dave Blackburn said:

I made the mistake of jumping on Ventura this week, assuming Apple would have tested it with Logic. Alas, Logic crashes every time I go to bounce a mix. To make matters worse, I have a bootable 12.6 Monterey disk but when I go to reinstall the prior OS I'm getting "this volume can't be downgraded."

So - until Apple put out a fix in Logic I think I'm stuck, unable to mix. Other than that, Ventura seems good.

does this happen with any bounce? several people (including myself) have reported (since early in the beta cycle) that you cannot OVERWRITE a bounce (ie bounce over a same-named file); this will require a logic update (probably coming soon).

if all bounces are crashing logic, you may need to delete logic's preference file, & reboot. logic (outside of the bounce issue mentioned) has worked fine here since beta day 1... and continues to do so in the final OS release.

Edited October 28, 2022 by fisherking

[Dave Blackburn]

For me, it crashes on any bounce, whether or not it is overwriting a previous bounce. I will try deleting the Logic prefs file. That would be where?

[des99]

~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.logic10.plist

(The library folder in your home/user folder, which is hidden by default)

Edited October 28, 2022 by des99

[fisherking]

16 minutes ago, Dave Blackburn said:

For me, it crashes on any bounce, whether or not it is overwriting a previous bounce. I will try deleting the Logic prefs file. That would be where?

also... make sure any 3rd-party plugins are up-to-date. and does this happen from a custom template, and/or a generic logic template?.. but yes, try deleting the preference file...

[Dave Blackburn]

Magic. Thanks, fisherking. I was able to bounce successfully. 

[ravez]

I can finally use 120hz refresh rate 😎

[blinkofani]

On 10/27/2022 at 10:25 AM, Jope said:

Exactly. What I don't understand is: My computer is able to identify the Edirol FA-101 by name as FireWire device in the System Profiler (connected via the chain [Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter] - [Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter], both adapters made by Apple)... So the computer still knows FireWire exists... But I cannot select it for audio out oder in.

Do I want to buy a new interface... Or just wait and see if Apple just forgot something but will add soon... Or maybe someone else finds a solution?

BTW Monterey had no problem using the FA-101.

Just read on Apogee web site that Apple killed their FW CoreAudio driver on Ventura. Since your FA-101 doesn’t have a proprietary driver(that’s why it worked until now since Roland stopped supporting it many moons ago!!) and relied on that built-in driver, sorry to say you’re toast. Your interface that is. I have a FA-66 that I use because it is recognized on my M1 MBA AND my old G5 tower. I only have to plug my keyboard and FA-66 on my Belkin TB dock from the G5 and can keep all my ext. synths(midi and audio-wise) and my monitors connected to go from a 2005 LP9 to a 2022 LPX system in 15 seconds. So, I won’t be in a hurry to update to Ventura!!  

[blinkofani]

Wow!! Just been promoted to rookie on this site. 15-years member, 20 years Logic user. That was a long-time coming to become a « rookie »…😉

[des99]

8 minutes ago, blinkofani said:

Wow!! Just been promoted to rookie on this site. 15-years member, 20 years Logic user.

All the stats were reset in the last major site upgrade a few months back. We were *all* reset to rookies, so don't feel slighted. Just some of us graduated forward quicker than others..! 😉 

[olavsu1]

I have M-Audio firewire 410.  It works only with win7. There are very few equivalent new sound cards on the market.

 

I have been scolded for not using a mac. Could he create a personal driver for me. Now I are using  a Mac and there is no forum where such a promise was written....

maybe it would be wise to slow down the growth of the electronic junk pile and open the source code for outdated hardware drivers.

[des99]

You haven't been able to use the FW410 on Macs for many OS versions now.

(The last official mac OSX version it supported was 10.7 Lion, although the driver continued to work for a few more OS revisions, you just couldn't run the control panel software to change any settings.)

Focusrite do a range of Scarlett interfaces that are more or less equivalent (but better sounding), as do other manufacturers. They are not that expensive, are solid and should work for many years.

Edited October 28, 2022 by des99

[olavsu1]

2 minutes ago, des99 said:

Focusrite do a range of Scarlett interfaces that are more or less equivalent

I have looked at them none of them are comparable to fw410 because they only have stereo output (MAIN OUT) and they acts like rackable mixers.  But  FW410 has 8 outputs that can be linked to one volume button, 7.1 monitoring is possible if desired.

That one looks better  and some  RME boxes too.

I have a UMC1820 too. It is rackable mixer, with sound card capability.

[des99]

16 minutes ago, olavsu1 said:

I have looked at them none of them are comparable to fw410 because they only have stereo output (MAIN OUT)

I said "broadly comparable" in feature set and form factor. I didn't know your specific requirements, but there are plenty of variations of interface available. The Scarlets have up to four or six outputs I think, but it varies - and the large rack versions have more outputs should you need them.

17 minutes ago, olavsu1 said:

But  FW410 has 8 outputs that can be linked to one volume button, 7.1 monitoring is possible if desired.

I know, I have one (in a box somewhere) that I used to use in 2006 on my old PPC Powerbook. I replaced it with a Scarlett 😉

In any case, your FW410 is useless with modern Macs, so you'll need to find a replacement with an acceptable feature set. You're not short on choice, at least..!

[olavsu1]

3 minutes ago, des99 said:

In any case, your FW410 is useless with modern Macs

Never lose hope. Because I know there are uncles in black who will come like spies in different ways and make your stuff work with whatever operating system. You yourself will be sent to the zoo for a whole day. You can go back to your cell when you are allowed.