macOS Ventura out today

[fisherking]

10 minutes ago, olavsu1 said:

Never lose hope. Because I know there are uncles in black who will come like spies in different ways and make your stuff work with whatever operating system. You yourself will be sent to the zoo for a whole day. You can go back to your cell when you are allowed.

hope has nothing to do with it. firewire is a (long-since) retired protocol. if you want to work, you need an interface that works...

[des99]

Honestly, if someone was going to take it upon themselves to develop and release a modern Mac driver for this, they've already had the last ten years to do it. Honestly, it's a fifteen-year old audio interface, and consumer audio technology has come a *long* way in that time. The Gen2 Scarlett I replaced mine with was noticeably much better sounding, and it was obvious from the first audio I played through it.

If you wish to hold on to an old, outdated, and not-very good sounding by modern standards device in the hope that one day, someone will spend months of their time reverse engineering the M-Audio devices and writing a Mac FW driver for them (instead of spending a few hundred bucks to get something modern and save the effort), that's up to you of course....

In the meantime, you could just get a modern interface (or a couple of them if you want to stack your I/O with smaller devices) and be using it...

Edited October 29, 2022 by des99

[olavsu1]

35 minutes ago, fisherking said:

hope has nothing to do with it. firewire is a (long-since) retired protocol. if you want to work, you need an interface that works...

Thanks. I'd rather keep the JUNK(tm) computer. As long as possible.

That is the thing, what keeps some people to hold old tehnic.

Edited October 29, 2022 by olavsu1

[Jope]

Alright then, FireWire is a retired protocol. When I bought the FA-101, I thought I would need many inputs for external synths, and FireWire was the fastest connection on my computer... but this was a long, long time ago (to be honest)... I haven't been using external synths for years. I'm fine with one or two mic inputs providing phantom power and some line in and out, so it's time to get a new interface, maybe the Scarlett 4i4, or what do you think of Universal Audio Volt4 (I know this is a different discussion for a different thread - just anybody tell me if there are reasons to buy one of these under no circumstances)?

BTW if someone is interested in an as-good-as-new FA-101 plus some useless adapter stuff, you can have it 🙂

[jmob]

Smooth sailing on my Mac Studio. 

[Mania]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:48 PM, kerochan said:

Just my humble opinion, but if, like me, all is stable with Monterey & Logic, or whatever OS & Logic version you are on, you not obliged to update!   

I only just updated to Monterey from El Capitan and Logic 10. 3.2 a few weeks ago, as I got a new computer, was on the same same system/set up for 7 years.

Stability is paramount!   

Of course its easier if you have 2 systems.

Hoping everyone enjoys Ventura anyway!   

I agree. I will not update to Ventura from Monterey unless Logic would be more stable on the new OS or a feature i need in Logic requires the latest OS. Most of my upgrades went smoothly in the past, but maybe i am getting older and I appreciate the peace of mind 🙂

[Mania]

3 hours ago, Mania said:

I agree. I will not update to Ventura from Monterey unless Logic would be more stable on the new OS or a feature i need in Logic requires the latest OS. Most of my upgrades went smoothly in the past, but maybe i am getting older and I appreciate the peace of mind 🙂

What I meant actually is: I would update to Ventura, if somehow it would become more stable than Monterey and the new OS would be a better experience with Logic compared to the previous one. For now I do not have any problems with Monterey and logic and we are currently not missing features so I’m just going to hold off for a bit with the update.

[dubfish]

Upgraded today. Relieved that my Firewire MOTU Ultralite still appears to be working, although I'm hearing occasional audio dropouts just while listening to Music app. Hopefully that will resolve after the system settles down (Macbook's fans are blasting while Spotlight does it's reindex thing).

One thing that's bothering me is a tiny Logic icon in Stage Manager. Anyone seeing that? I run Logic in full-screen mode which I thought should remove it from Stage Manager. Clicking the tiny icon does nothing except show the application text title. 

[dubfish]

Oh dear. I wonder what will come first, macOS 13.1 or Logic 10.7.6.

Edited November 3, 2022 by dubfish

[des99]

2 minutes ago, dubfish said:

I wonder what will come first

In my case, what would be first would be turning off Stage Manager... Nothing I have seen, or heard about it, makes me in any way inclined to use it... but then I'm also a longtime Spaces user and much prefer virtual desktops generally...

[dubfish]

I quite like Stage Manager so far. Helps create some focus. I forgot about virtual desktops, which seem to provide a temporary fix, since each desktop get's it's own 'cast' (cringe) in Stage Manager.

I've created a second desktop and run Logic maximised (as opposed to full-screen) in that. Assigned it to always launch in its own desktop by the right-click, Options menu on the Logic dock icon.

[conanthewarrior]

I took the gamble as Monterey was working fine, just where I have a new machine I wanted to keep it up to date. 
I only updated last night, and things seem good. I am not sure if I like stage manager or not but at least it is easy to turn off. 
I upgraded hoping it may be a bit faster than Monterey- even though that was very fast for my use which is just Logic and web browsing when not using Logic. 

[des99]

Eventide sent a mail saying don't upgrade to Ventura at this time, their stuff doesn't work (but what was affected was unspecified). Ventura support is a WIP for them...

[fisherking]

5 minutes ago, des99 said:

Eventide sent a mail saying don't upgrade to Ventura at this time, their stuff doesn't work (but what was affected was unspecified). Ventura support is a WIP for them...

i'll never understand why developers aren't ready by an OS's formal release (i can, of course, understand not supporting the betas)...

[des99]

5 minutes ago, fisherking said:

i'll never understand why developers aren't ready by an OS's formal release

I think some companies have the attitude "We're not going to even look at the new macOS version until the release ships", *then* test, and announce whatever they need to then (works, doesn't work etc).

I agree that a smart, on-it developer will at least start checking their software in the betas, to get a heads up of whether any work might need to be done - even if you put off final assessments until after the release ships. You at least can start making some assessments, even do a bit of prep work, so you'll be in better shape to ship updates soon after the macOS release, rather than wait until then to *begin* that effort...

But... scheduling and resource-allocation can be complicated, so I don't make judgements on companies' behaviours without any knowledge of the factors that go into making those calls, so...

Edited November 6, 2022 by des99

[fisherking]

11 minutes ago, des99 said:

I think some companies have the attitude "We're not going to even look at the new macOS version until the release ships", *then* test, and announce whatever they need to then (works, doesn't work etc).

I agree that a smart, on-it developer will at least start checking their software in the betas, to get a heads up of whether any work might need to be done - even if you put off final assessments until after the release ships. You at least can start making some assessments, even do a bit of prep work, so you'll be in better shape to ship updates soon after the macOS release, rather than wait until then to *begin* that effort...

But... scheduling and resource-allocation can be complicated, so I don't make judgements on companies' behaviours without any knowledge of the factors that go into making those calls, so...

i dunno. the beta cycle before apple releases a new OS is about 4 months. the developers who are on top of this have my respect. the ones that wait for official release then dive into adapting... not so much.

anyway, all my plugins worked thru the beta cycle, and it was logic itself that needed an update for ventura!

[KC]

2 hours ago, fisherking said:

i dunno. the beta cycle before apple releases a new OS is about 4 months. the developers who are on top of this have my respect. the ones that wait for official release then dive into adapting... not so much.

I agree. I understand them not supporting the betas. And I would also be open to the dev saying they are working but not ready on day one. But the ones who do ship on day one, or week one are always higher on my list.

[fisherking]

i think, for companies that are not ready by the OS release date should email their customers well in advance of that date, and let them know they won't be compatible until some time in the future.

no one should update their OS only to find that an essential app or plugin is not yet compatible. still, happens often...

[conanthewarrior]

EDIT: This is after my Mac being on for a fair period of time, If I restart only 4GB is being used, then when I load up some tabs and logic its 10GB, then slowly increases. I wonder if this is the memory leak?

Has anyone noticed a ram increase with Ventura? With my average use it used to be around 11-12GB being used, now it is around 13-14GB. 

I haven't noticed any slowdown, this is with logic and safari with a lot of tabs, but just wondered if anyone else is experiencing this. 

Does Ventura just use more ram for some reason? I upgraded hoping it would be a performance increase, I took a gamble and seems I lost a bit. Luckily I have 16GB ram as if I went for the 8GB air it wouldn't be enough for my use. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by conanthewarrior

[fisherking]

this should be addressed in an OS update; i've seen a number of reports of people reporting memory leaks. seems to always be with us, but apple... at least, needs to keep it manageable.

i haven't checked, because nothing has impeded my workflow (i won't look for problems, i'll deal with them when they appear).

ventura (like every OS before it), is a work-in-progress, and should get better over time.

[conanthewarrior]

9 minutes ago, fisherking said:

this should be addressed in an OS update; i've seen a number of reports of people reporting memory leaks. seems to always be with us, but apple... at least, needs to keep it manageable.

i haven't checked, because nothing has impeded my workflow (i won't look for problems, i'll deal with them when they appear).

ventura (like every OS before it), is a work-in-progress, and should get better over time.

This is good to hear. I did some looking online, and apparently dark mode can have something to do with it, so I switched to light mode theme, and instead of safari am using brave. This has bought my used memory down to 7.82GB with 7 tabs open and logic. I tend to do this as I watch something, get inspired and continue working on my track, take a break, then go back again. It is easier than shutting all my browser windows. 
If the project is heavy with synths etc I will quit out of my browser so the system is just working on Logic. 

[keano12]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:20 AM, fisherking said:

outside of one significant bug (if you try to overwrite a bounced mix, logic crashes), it's a great OS. all my 3rd-party plugins work, and am getting a lot done in logic.

my own workaround for the bug (until a logic update fixes it): i append a '2' (or '3' etc) to the bounced file name, so i don't attempt to overwrite an earlier bounce. simple enough, for now.

good luck to all who dive in today 👍

What 3rd party plugs do you use? 

[analogika]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:17 PM, conanthewarrior said:

EDIT: This is after my Mac being on for a fair period of time, If I restart only 4GB is being used, then when I load up some tabs and logic its 10GB, then slowly increases. I wonder if this is the memory leak?

Has anyone noticed a ram increase with Ventura? With my average use it used to be around 11-12GB being used, now it is around 13-14GB. 

It‘s worth noting that having free RAM is not actually desirable. 
Free RAM is a wasted resource - a well-written system will always try to use as much of it as possible by caching often-used code or pre-loading code that it figures you might be needing soon, etc.

The OS wants to use as much RAM as possible to speed up the system.

This may just be a sign that Ventura is using RAM more efficiently. 
 

 

[fisherking]

8 hours ago, keano12 said:

What 3rd party plugs do you use? 

all of them? hmmm

diva, atlas, beat machine, dune3, equator2, fabfilter (their effects), icarus2, ozone 10 advanced, izotope vocalsynth2, nektar3, rx8 advanced, massive X, output's movement, nuance2, pianoteq7, plasmonic, roli drums, shaperbox3, spire1.5, sublab, trackspacer, valhalla's delay, vintageverb, supermassive & shimmer; vital, ample LP guitar, phasemotion2, ujam's fin-dynamo & se-striiiiings, waves ovox, reel adt, harmony...

[conanthewarrior]

3 hours ago, analogika said:

It‘s worth noting that having free RAM is not actually desirable. 
Free RAM is a wasted resource - a well-written system will always try to use as much of it as possible by caching often-used code or pre-loading code that it figures you might be needing soon, etc.

The OS wants to use as much RAM as possible to speed up the system.

This may just be a sign that Ventura is using RAM more efficiently. 
 

I see, I really didn't know this! I was thinking back to old PC days in the early 2000's where ram getting overloaded was common (I think my laptop had 256mb of ram). 

So on the ARM M1 SOC using more ram is actually better? I learn something new everyday. 

[des99]

56 minutes ago, conanthewarrior said:

So on the ARM M1 SOC using more ram is actually better?

These days, RAM use and allocation is complex, and the system does incredible things to manage it, so you don't have to! As long as you have a decent amount of RAM, you can generally trust the system to do what it needs to do to provide you with a smooth computing experience, at least until your needs start to push the boundaries of what your machine can easily do and you start to notice performance problems that would be better served with a machine with more resources.

Edited November 10, 2022 by des99

[analogika]

1 hour ago, conanthewarrior said:

I see, I really didn't know this! I was thinking back to old PC days in the early 2000's where ram getting overloaded was common (I think my laptop had 256mb of ram). 

So on the ARM M1 SOC using more ram is actually better? I learn something new everyday. 

The NT-based Windows and Mac OS X already worked this way in the early 2000's. 

It's just that "having free RAM" wasn't really something that happened back then. We were always tight for memory. 😉 

It's just not really that much of a concern these days — and apparently, the Apple Silicon boxes are even better at dealing with it. 


An actual "memory leak" can and does happen when there's a bug in software — but in that case, you will see one particular application continually gobble up more and more RAM over time even when you're not doing anything, eating up all available memory and more. 
It's a little difficult to distinguish initially an actual leak from the normal tendency of the system to use all available resources, as you've found. 

[Jope]

And here we go with 13.0.1 - as far as I understand it this adresses some security issues but is not a "real" new version.

[fisherking]

3 minutes ago, Jope said:

And here we go with 13.0.1 - as far as I understand it this adresses some security issues but is not a "real" new version.

apple can (& should) continue point updates; a chance to squash some bugs (& create new ones). 🙄

on the OS beta (13.1), desktop app aliases open the Terminal, a (minor) nuisance. but logic is running fine.

there are bugs; there will always be bugs... 😔

[David Nahmani]

1 hour ago, Jope said:

And here we go with 13.0.1 - as far as I understand it this adresses some security issues but is not a "real" new version.

Thanks for notifying us about this!

Two security issues and some bug patches. More details: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213504