Mastering Assistant OR Mastering Alternative???

[Maestro777]

So I haven't seen this question actually asked verbatim though I've found permutations to it. I just happened to give the Mastering assistant a try and was quite impressed with results. Per documentation it mentions EQ, spreading the stereo image and controlling the true peak of the audio.

But the dynamics area is what I’m more interested in having a bit more insight with.  I see the “excite” option which apparently is adding or subtracting some upper level harmonics to the audio much like the Aphex Aural Exciter. This I also think is a very welcomed feature.
However, while experimenting with the Loudness I did notice an introduction at one point of slight pumping which suggests that there is a compressor behind the scenes to support the Loudness feature.

I’m thinking a compressor and limiter are implemented into the Mastering Assistant which wouldn’t totally discourage me from using it. But I’m not that fond of 1, 2 or 3 knob solutions to something as critical as compression on a Mastering bus. I’d at least want to know what’s going on. E.g. what type of compressor is being used and the attack release times being applied. Probably fine for getting an idea of what the finished product would likely resemble but not as a true Mastering solution. But, that's just my opinion.

I guess the jist of what I'm asking is "Is this a Mastering Assistant" or is it supposed to be a "Mastering all in one" thing. Because I wouldn't want to throw a Mastering plugin on the bus and have my work compromised by the latter.

Anyone have any insight on this?

[Atlas007]

I was in the impression that Mastering plugin isn’t acting destructively on the project. Thus, I don’t understand where it would become compromising…

[Maestro777]

4 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

I was in the impression that Mastering plugin isn’t acting destructively on the project. Thus, I don’t understand where it would become compromising…

Well, maybe I should have been a bit more clear on "compromising". If I'm mastering a track I'd place a mastering plugin somewhere in the chain (e.g. Shadow Hills, Weiss DS1-MK3 or etc) and when I think in terms of a Mastering Assistant plugin I'm generally thinking in terms of a plugin that may perform tasks as adding subtle harmonics, introducing very subtle EQ curves or any other type of task that would enhance the audio. So compromising to me would be introducing a plugin onto my chain that unknowingly adds more compression.

One could make an argument for serial compression on the Master bus, but generally I don't really expect that from a Mastering assistant plugin moreover the other things I mentioned.

If I know the plugin is actually performing compression in the backend, then I can make a knowledgeable intended use of it; but if I don't know it's adding compression to my track; that's the compromise. Not that it's destructive, but that I'm using it in a way contrary to what I thought it was doing.

[Sir Hannes]

Hi,

for a series of 10min long tracks I am now using Logic's assistant in addition to my mastering chain (I am a sound engineer though) regularly. All in all, I can work with it. I would just like to point out that I often experience extreme pumping and distortion. Strangely enough, this comes up by incident, without me having made any changes that would increase the volume or the frequency behavior before the Assistant. Since then I've been very cautious and skeptical again with this new feature.

[Maestro777]

2 hours ago, Sir Hannes said:

Hi,

for a series of 10min long tracks I am now using Logic's assistant in addition to my mastering chain (I am a sound engineer though) regularly. All in all, I can work with it. I would just like to point out that I often experience extreme pumping and distortion. Strangely enough, this comes up by incident, without me having made any changes that would increase the volume or the frequency behavior before the Assistant. Since then I've been very cautious and skeptical again with this new feature.

Hey, thanks for that important piece of information you shared. That was somewhat along what I'd experienced as well which led me to ask the question in this post. I also noted pumping as well though probably not as extreme as you have stated. I think it's prudent to say as you've said, it should be used cautiously.

Especially if you've already got a compressor on the same bus with the intent of actually mastering the audio b/c the Mastering assistant apparently is employing some type of compression under the hood and so the result may not be as intended or favorable under those circumstances. There is no documentation stating the type of compression it's using, the attack and release time (if any) and etc.

IMHO if you use it on a bus that already has compression in the chain, you're somewhat flying blindly from a technically perspective and relying "solely" on what you hear. Probably fine if that's what "floats your boat"

Overall, I think it generally sounds great if there are no other compressors on the bus though.

Thanks for the input

 

Edited February 6 by Maestro777

[Mania]

It is a wonderful tool, but i often get the best results if i have a decent mix. 

1. 1take care of the low end, get busy with the high pass filter on the tracks
2. take care of your drum peaks. Apply compression, limiting, clipping on bass drum and snare. Then again on the drum bus. Saturation too. 

Then let the mastering assistant do the rest, play with the final eq a bit in the mastering assistant. 

Always A/B with a good commercial mix. Just use quicktime or Apple music to make things simple. 
 

-14 LUFS is good enough. (That is where the assistant sets the mix. )

If you want much louder, your results may vary.  
 

When analyzing the assistant says 'building a mastering chain'

Pretty sure there is compression and multiband compression going on in there. You get pumpung if you have too much peaking in your mix. 

Edited February 6 by Mania

[Sir Hannes]

Depending from where I am working, e.g. hotel room, I use the eq curve to re-think about my perception of bass energy, or high frequency content or width. 

In my chain I have some dedicated elements which I can easily tweak (e.g. high frequency or width). 

For the bass energy I go back to these elements/ these tracks and use an eq to soften the energy. 

Running mastering assistant again, I observe the eq curve for bass/ highs and the width-knob. They will change accordingly to what I've done. 

Please note: I do this in sound-unrelated environments or working on headphones only.

[Sir Hannes]

I just want to mention that the Mastering Assistant behaves really annoying here. It does not seem to be designed to be activated for long periods of time and/or to really use the "Re-analyze" button. Results with bass-heavy content is distortion everywhere and distorting everything. The solution is not to throw it out and reinitiate, because that doesn't change anything.

[Maestro777]

26 minutes ago, Sir Hannes said:

It does not seem to be designed to be activated for long periods of time and/or to really use the "Re-analyze" button.

Sorry? @Sir Hannes this last post wasn't very clear as to what you meant. Is this a response as a follow up to your previous one and if so, how is it related. 

Maybe it's just me but I am confused on the post, could you please clarify this for sake of the thread?

[Sir Hannes]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:50 PM, Sir Hannes said:

Hi,

for a series of 10min long tracks I am now using Logic's assistant in addition to my mastering chain (I am a sound engineer though) regularly. All in all, I can work with it. I would just like to point out that I often experience extreme pumping and distortion. Strangely enough, this comes up by incident, without me having made any changes that would increase the volume or the frequency behavior before the Assistant. Since then I've been very cautious and skeptical again with this new feature.

Apologize. It's an additional information to this post.

[Maestro777]

I see, thanks for that @Sir Hannes!

[FLH3]

Pumping in the mastering assistant, yes, like you I've noticed that too some time to time. This new assistant is sometimes an EDM/techno fan... Tchump-tchump-tchump-tchump...

As I use it at a multitracks stage, not with a single stereo mix, and after my usual "mastering chain" and what I think is an already decent mix, I have the possibility to change the EQ and/or compression in the track(s) I suspect to cause the problem.

I try to only make this assistant do the minimum on my music.

Regarding the "excite" option, well, it never gave me something I could like

Edited February 12 by FLH3

[Mania]

7 hours ago, Sir Hannes said:

I just want to mention that the Mastering Assistant behaves really annoying here. It does not seem to be designed to be activated for long periods of time and/or to really use the "Re-analyze" button. Results with bass-heavy content is distortion everywhere and distorting everything. The solution is not to throw it out and reinitiate, because that doesn't change anything.

It means that your mix is not ready for mastering. Look at your multimeter and do your best to take care of the low end of your mix and treat the peaks in your mix too as a stated earlier. You have to get it to a ballpark of a good mix. Then export or bounce the  mix, open a new project and import the mix. Only open the mastering assistant. (I think this is the intended way and the most efficient way to use the mastering assistant )Do a few tweaks and it should give you good results. That's what it was made for. If you're constantly going back re-tweaking everything and re-analyzing everything I'm sure there will be Bugs turning up their heads sooner or later. 

[Maestro777]

53 minutes ago, Mania said:

It means that your mix is not ready for mastering. Look at your multimeter and do your best to take care of the low end of your mix and treat the peaks in your mix too as a stated earlier. You have to get it to a ballpark of a good mix. Then export or bounce the  mix, open a new project and import the mix. Only open the mastering assistant. (I think this is the intended way and the most efficient way to use the mastering assistant )Do a few tweaks and it should give you good results. That's what it was made for. If you're constantly going back re-tweaking everything and re-analyzing everything I'm sure there will be Bugs turning up their heads sooner or later. 

You may be correct and that seems to be the general consensus based on most of the responses. Which to me suggests that Mastering Assistant is more of a Mastering alternative. Else what you've suggested shouldn't be required. Just dropping my 2 cents in the bucket

[Sir Hannes]

Yes, I agree with @Maestro777. The functionality is there and it is to be used like a mastering chain. So for sure I play my mixes through this to check how any mastering engineer might listen to it on their side to save this person time - and myself money.

I am reporting more a kind of a bug, Jim. There is no reason for this behavior, the mix is well balanced, and there are no big dynamic changes, the MA works fine at the beginning and without tweaking it starts distorting and pumping without a reason, at least I know.